is the 10k olympic in ITU actually measured ?
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Tikal Dog posted 50 weeks ago.
you have an interesting point there. I don´t believe it had many downhills or something.
Here in Guatemala the local federation follows ITU rules and regulations and they measure everything with GPS. But I have seen bad measurements here too, normally on the swim and a couple of times in the bike.
That comment would make an excellent letter to triathlete magazine. Maybe they have someone to check this deeper.
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Anton posted 50 weeks ago.
Still the most accurate way to measue a race course is with a Jones Wheel. That hand held device,sort of like a bike wheel that is actually rolled on the course. They are very easy to calabrate and are super accurate....much more so than gps which is accurate to within x number of feet or meters. A number of races have gone to gps measurement and those measurements have been inaccurate but only by a few meters at most...not enough to make a huge difference and since everyone on the course is running the same distance it doesn't matter... Just as those who run on the track are subject to the weather and wind conditions on the track THAT day. Some vary inaccurate folks who usually run unsanctioned races use a car to measure, which can be off by hundreds of yards.
Courses vary sooo much. A slight head wind makes a difference...an up or down hill that is so slight to notice with the naked eye makes a difference. The course could have been wrong, or it was accurate and she is stronger than those folks...for her, maybe her legs wern't tired!
The USATF and other bodies have guys that are certified measureers who have been known to take a tape measure to a course...measureing it in 20 ft increments! If you think a course is innaccurate..call the RD on it!
"What would life be if we had no courage to attempt anything?" - Vincent Van Gogh
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Tikal Dog posted 50 weeks ago.
Do you have in hand the times for the folks at the IAAF track and field world championships????? How much different are they??
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UFTriGator posted 50 weeks ago.
ITU Worlds
Men's IAAF Worlds
Women's IAAF Worlds
USATF will certify a course within a percentage of the actual distance. I'm not sure if ITU does the same, but to me it looks like the ITU course was fast.
PS...look who was 1st American for U23 in Hamburg. Go Gators!
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wilsondaj posted 50 weeks ago.
http://hcm.mikatiming.de/hcm_jedermann/pdf/11_WM_Elite_Maenner.pdf
http://hcm.mikatiming.de/hcm_jedermann/pdf/05_WM_Elite_Frauen.pdf
mens and womens respectively for the ITU race, thanks for the IAAF results gator,
its funny the women were closer then the men, with almost 3min difference in the winners times for the mens ITU race to the IAAF and almost exactly a minute in the womens
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MaverickUNC posted 50 weeks ago.
It may be inaccurate BUT if you happened to watch the Women's 10k you would have seen that it was a "jog" for the most part. The first lap was taken out at a 1:25! Not just that but the heat and humidity in Japan played a huge part in overall times. The women's 10K was so slow that Deena Kastor said that she knew within the first few laps that she wouldn't be capable of winning because it would come down to a sprint. The two Kenyan sisters were also controlling the tempo of the women's 10K, so they could basically guarantee a win. It seems that the IAAF was far more strategic than ITU.
"I run because it always takes me where I want to go" -Dean Karnazes
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Leroy Bonkers posted 50 weeks ago.
Wow, that first lap really was slow (for superheros, at least).
I wonder why a non-sprinter type like Kastor would not push the pace earlier. Assuming that there is not a kind of drafting going on here, why is it harder to run in the lead?
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oztrigal posted 50 weeks ago.
The heat and humidity over there affected all the times of middle/long distance runs. Even the 5k mens was a really slow pace until about 400 to go where the sprinter took it out..
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wilsondaj posted 50 weeks ago.
Regardless of the conditions at the IAAF meet, triathletes regularly run within three minutes of the world records for an open 10k road race (27:02 mens, 30:21 womens, the track records are about a minute faster for both mens and womens) both of which were set by two of the best runners ever (haile gerbresalasssie and paula radcliffe). This seems pretty fast to me...
Again I am not trying to trivialise how the tri guys can run, Simon Whitfield is a machine, but sub 30min 10k off the bike.... I dont know.
anyway just my two cents
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UFTriGator posted 50 weeks ago.
Leroy Bonkers;78325 wrote:
Assuming that there is not a kind of drafting going on here, why is it harder to run in the lead?
Because of drafting. That's why world record attempts use rabbits.
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Anton posted 50 weeks ago.
UFTriGator;78311 wrote:
ITU Worlds
Men's IAAF Worlds
Women's IAAF WorldsUSATF will certify a course within a percentage of the actual distance. I'm not sure if ITU does the same, but to me it looks like the ITU course was fast.
PS...look who was 1st American for U23 in Hamburg. Go Gators!
I just looked it up... The USATF says that a course should be measured three times. You can use a specially calibrated bicycle ridden the streightest line possible on each course ie: cutting the tangents. The measurements cannot be off the race distance by more than 0.08%!
That's roughly 8 meters on a 10,000 meter course or 24 feet....roughly four or five strides of someone really kicking A$$.
"What would life be if we had no courage to attempt anything?" - Vincent Van Gogh
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UFTriGator posted 50 weeks ago.
I was thinking it was a lot more than that. Guess I should double-check my sources (i.e. roomie) next time. :D
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runmargierun posted 50 weeks ago.
I recently ran in an ITU-sanctioned World Duathlon race in Gyor - the run course was 8.8k instead of 10k...made a huge difference to our run times since we did the course 3 times in all ("10k" before, and "5k" after the bike). Now that's some error!!
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Leroy Bonkers posted 50 weeks ago.
UFTriGator;78363 wrote:
Because of drafting. That's why world record attempts use rabbits.
I always hear people say that on the bike you must be going over 18mph to get any advantage from aero gear (not sure that I buy that, seeing as a slow rider multiplies a small advantage over a long time, but that's the word on the street;) ).
So why does a runner going 11-12 mph care about aerodynamics? And if they cared about aerodynamics wouldn't they wear tight little track suits like a sprinter?
Perhaps I'm still just not getting it here... not the first time I've been slow on the uptake:)
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wilsondaj posted 50 weeks ago.
Front running takes an additional 10% or so energy or so I have heard, which would really hurt you in a 10k. Theres also the added mental benefit of only having to match someone elses pace instead of having to set it yourself when you are running on someones heels.
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Anton posted 50 weeks ago.
Some folks might be confused...Races in multisport do not have to be a specific distance...swim bike and run distances have a ballpark... as many of us know sprints vary in length...duathlons really do (and 8.8k is a common Du distance) and I've even done Olympic distance races that vary off of the "perfect" olympic distance. Some folks even say that some IM bike courses are long and the swims are short...
as to speed and aerodynamics and running...ever notice that the folks who win marathons on the world stage...wear little tiny shorts and tight singlets that are as lite as possible?
"What would life be if we had no courage to attempt anything?" - Vincent Van Gogh
My Blog: http://anton.trifuel.net
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UFTriGator posted 50 weeks ago.
Leroy Bonkers;78401 wrote:
I always hear people say that on the bike you must be going over 18mph to get any advantage from aero gear (not sure that I buy that, seeing as a slow rider multiplies a small advantage over a long time, but that's the word on the street;) ).So why does a runner going 11-12 mph care about aerodynamics? And if they cared about aerodynamics wouldn't they wear tight little track suits like a sprinter?
Perhaps I'm still just not getting it here... not the first time I've been slow on the uptake:)
When any object moves through a medium (air, water, etc) a high-pressure zone is created on the front that pushes back and a low-pressure zone behind that pulls. Both slow you down.
Aero gear riding solo on the bike (helmets, etc) works because it decreases the turbulence behind you and reduces the intensity of the low-pressure zone you create, thereby reducing drag. You need to already be creating a significant amount of turbulence in order to make a reduction in the turbulence translate into a significant increase in speed, which is why you need to be going x mph to see a benefit. Drafting is different...you put yourself in someone else's low-pressure zone, thereby reducing the intensity of the high-pressure zone in front of you, which is much more significant. Drafting in running is significant even in shorter races. Watch Lagat kick out of a pack in the 1500 or Symmonds kick out of a pack in the 800. They don't front-run because it would take too much energy. You'll even see it in the 4x400, but you have to pay more attention to see it happening.
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Leroy Bonkers posted 50 weeks ago.
Ah-ha! Science!
Gator, you make a good case. I think I'm coming around on that one...
Although I was getting kinda psyched at the possibility of creating some kind of fairing to be used on the run!
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UFTriGator posted 50 weeks ago.
Tyson Gay tops out at around 28 mph in the 200. You should talk to him about that. Well, if he knows what a fairing is....or aerodynamics....or really much of anything beyond "set...bang"
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Kiwi posted 50 weeks ago.
Anton;78410 wrote:
Some folks might be confused...Races in multisport do not have to be a specific distance...swim bike and run distances have a ballpark... as many of us know sprints vary in length...duathlons really do (and 8.8k is a common Du distance) and I've even done Olympic distance races that vary off of the "perfect" olympic distance. Some folks even say that some IM bike courses are long and the swims are short...
as to speed and aerodynamics and running...ever notice that the folks who win marathons on the world stage...wear little tiny shorts and tight singlets that are as lite as possible?
What?
Yes, triathlons vary in distance, but the distance that is advertised is the distance that the race should be. And since when has 8.8km been a common duathlon distance?
Also, ITU races are notorious for having short run courses. I don't care how much energy you save drafting, it takes energy to ride 40km. I would bet most men racing in ITU races would struggle to get close to 30min for 10km on the track, they shouldn't be able to do it at the end of a triathlon.
Hey everyone
I am looking for an insiders perspective on this. I know in my local races the 10k distance for the run is pretty variable, dont know how they measure it or even if they do. What I am wondering is at the ITU level is the 10k distance measured with a GPS or is it somewhat artbitrary. I dont want to trivialize what triathletes can do but Emma Snowsill ran a 32:54 a the world championships recently, thats faster then some of the women ran a 10k on the track at the IAAF track and field world championships. Its a similar story in the mens race. I just dont know if I buy that someone who has to train in three disciplines could be faster on tired legs then one of the best in the world who does that and only that (especially on a road course vs. a track).
Anyway just wondering what people thought
D