Just read cheating article-interesting
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deepbluex posted 1 year ago.
It just boils down to the rules. Just follow the rules and it's not cheating. Simple as that.
When you compete in a race, you enter into a contract. You promise you obey the rules. You can use as much clever innovation as you want to give yourself an edge as long as it doesn't break those rules.
I recall the first time the sharkskin swimsuits came out in the olympics, it was a big deal because it popped up out of nowhere. It wasn't against the rules but it took everyone by surprise. People accused the use of this technology to be cheating. It didn't break the rules. People scrutinized the rules and found a narrow window of opportunity and took it. Sometimes the rules adapt to that and close those windows for the sake of maintaining an even-playing-field, sometimes the innovation pushes the level of competition to a new ceiling. It's a fine balancing act and in the end, it boils down to formulating rules that are motivated to preserve the spirit of fair competition.
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beads1985 posted 1 year ago.
If you have the article you read could you post the link?
Anyway,
(opinion to follow)
I believe that normal supplements you can get OTC at a Vitaman Shoppe, GNC, Drugstore, or other similar retailer is in NO way selling something that is remotely similar to illegal performance enhancing drugs. I don't believe those who are found guilty of using illegal substances and say that it "Accidentally" happened when their legal supplement is tainted. The only thing that is tainted is their story.
You mention "performance enhancing" equipment such as bikes, aerobars, gels, gatorade, etc...,
There are rules that address equipment and if they are not followed and someone is caught they are DQ'd.
Do I think it is fair that someone can afford all the top of the line equipment and I have a much lower equipment and training budget? Oh yeah it is unfair!!, but not illegal.
I have enhanced my performance thru products.
I replaced lots of equipment.
I went to a running store, got fitted for running shoes, got socks that wicked moisture instead of my cotton socks, tri shorts, a tri top (BTW-all available at the trifuel store:D )
I went to a bike store and got fitted for a tri bike to replace my 18 year old steel touring bike.
I have a wetsuit too.
These are all 'reasonable' "performance enhancing" product.
The problem is when individuals go beyond what is 'reasonable' to gain an advantage above and beyond what a normal athlete could do by 'unreasonable' means.
('unreasonable' by my definition may be something that is illegal or if discovered would be deemed illegal.)
''Nothing to it, but to do it''
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hipfan posted 1 year ago.
Sorry, I don't know how to post links. I'm kinda' computer illiterate. But What I read is "Cheating Parts 1 and 2". Both are on the trifuel main page right now.
And to clarify, I guess I'm just trying to understand what makes one product illegal and another one OK to use. The closest to a performance enhancing substance I have used to date is Gatorade and powerbars. So I don't really understand the difference between all of these substances.
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dr_rios_ec posted 1 year ago.
Very interesting topic and some things to comment:
From a very practical point of view I am with the rest of the guys, what is in the rule book, that should be what to follow. Those rules are made to make things clear.
Now about Gatorade, Accelerade, Gels, and so on, those are supplements to keep your body from bonking and from dehydration in the case of sport drinks....now some add caffeine in the mix...some a bit a protein, but they are all dietary supplements so to speak.
But you say what is the difference with steroids and drugs...ok...
Steroids will burst muscle tissue growth beyond normal, will increase your testorone, will affect your body in the long run....
I drink gallons of Gatorade...for years and no harm so far...do you get my point?
Epo-E another very evil drug...will incrase your hematocrit (amount of red blood cells in the blood) so you will get a higher oxygen carrying capacity than a normal athlete...
You can get pretty much same benefits by trainning in the altitude...now..is easier to shoot some stuff in to your body, than all the husle and logistics of going to train in Boulder, La Paz Bolivia or Quito....
So I think a dietary supplement, is not enhancing your performance...is keeping your body from going down to red mumber during your trainning or a race...
Drugs, blood doping and all that crap...is just for lazy guys who like to take the easy way out....
-Santiago
"Man!! Defeat is worse than dying, cause´you have to live with it" -My Dad
"It ain´t about how hard you can hit...it is how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward"-Rocky Balboa
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beads1985 posted 1 year ago.
hipfan;76126 wrote:
Sorry, I don't know how to post links. I'm kinda' computer illiterate. But What I read is "Cheating Parts 1 and 2". Both are on the trifuel main page right now.And to clarify, I guess I'm just trying to understand what makes one product illegal and another one OK to use. The closest to a performance enhancing substance I have used to date is Gatorade and powerbars. So I don't really understand the difference between all of these substances.
OOOPS!!
I gotcha now
''Nothing to it, but to do it''
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Anton posted 1 year ago.
Speaking of cheating...here is a great article from Outside via slowtwitch.com which is doing a series on age group doping now...
http://outside.away.com/outside/bodywork/200311/200311_drug_test_1.html
"What would life be if we had no courage to attempt anything?" - Vincent Van Gogh
My Blog: http://anton.trifuel.net
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Ozzie0523 posted 1 year ago.
Where to draw the line is the main concern when addressing performance enhancing drugs standards. For instance, the UCI has acceptable levels of caffeine, but if you, say overdose on espresso shots during the Tour de France, you will be DQ'd. That seems kind of weird. Also, eating things such as poppy-seed muffins triggers positive indications for opium..geez; how could that be helpful anyways? If anyone watched the Tour, one of the riders was plagued by a skin-reaction that was triggered by of all things, the sun. He could not take the required medications because he would then test positive for steriods (subutarol?). This stuff is ridiculous. These are radical cases but come on!
Something else I always wonder about, especially when things like testosterone ratios (Floyd Landis case; doens't make sense why you would take testorone anyways) get tripped up, is whether or not some of these things my be just naturally occuring. These athletes are insane...is it that crazy that some athletes may have some pretty weird physiological conditions that allow them to say, bike a hundered plus miles day-after-day in the Alps, ride 26+mph average for 112 miles (in no way am I accusing Norman of doping), or run 50 marathons in 50 days? I think testing needs to be much more individualized to safegaurd weird/extraordinary conditions which could possibly pop up.
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beads1985 posted 1 year ago.
Anton;76140 wrote:
Speaking of cheating...here is a great article from Outside via slowtwitch.com which is doing a series on age group doping now...
http://outside.away.com/outside/bodywork/200311/200311_drug_test_1.html
That article from 'Outside' is scary. You can see how easy it would be to get in to performance enhancing drugs and how one might stay on them.
I am thankful to be an average yet clean competitor :D
''Nothing to it, but to do it''
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dr_rios_ec posted 1 year ago.
Ozzie0523;76142 wrote:
Where to draw the line is the main concern when addressing performance enhancing drugs standards. For instance, the UCI has acceptable levels of caffeine, but if you, say overdose on espresso shots during the Tour de France, you will be DQ'd. That seems kind of weird. Also, eating things such as poppy-seed muffins triggers positive indications for opium..geez; how could that be helpful anyways? If anyone watched the Tour, one of the riders was plagued by a skin-reaction that was triggered by of all things, the sun. He could not take the required medications because he would then test positive for steriods (subutarol?). This stuff is ridiculous. These are radical cases but come on!Something else I always wonder about, especially when things like testosterone ratios (Floyd Landis case; doens't make sense why you would take testorone anyways) get tripped up, is whether or not some of these things my be just naturally occuring. These athletes are insane...is it that crazy that some athletes may have some pretty weird physiological conditions that allow them to say, bike a hundered plus miles day-after-day in the Alps, ride 26+mph average for 112 miles (in no way am I accusing Norman of doping), or run 50 marathons in 50 days? I think testing needs to be much more individualized to safegaurd weird/extraordinary conditions which could possibly pop up.
I would say, for example, that the caffeine rule, it is to safe guard the integrity of athletes. I know that there is a lot of people who can drown themselves in coffee an such...but! How about if you leave that with no control, and bang! al the sudden a rider dies because of dehydration, or a cardiac arrythmia, triggered because too high levels of caffeine.
About testosterone, you question why somebody wants to take testosterone. Well historically, lots of athletes. Testosterone, enhances muscle growth, muscle vascularity, tone, and volumen. Also, around endurance sports, you don´t need to look like a closet, but testosterone as a hormone, acts also around your mental and psycological edge...pretty important if you are looking ahead of a competition where you are trying to beat 100 other guys and get a nice juicy contract with a sponsor, besides having to ride your bike for 3 weeks...so there is plenty of reasons why people take it.
It is true that some pros are naturally gifted, but showing super human level of testosterone, for example, or any other crap...is something else.
-Santiago
"Man!! Defeat is worse than dying, cause´you have to live with it" -My Dad
"It ain´t about how hard you can hit...it is how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward"-Rocky Balboa
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mdd posted 1 year ago.
One thing that everyone seems to forget about things like EPO, steriods, etc is that they are ILLEGAL! If you buy them, have them, use them, etc and are caught by the police you will GO TO JAIL. So how people can defend using illegal substances is beyond me. If something results in prison time then it certainly should not be used to enhance your race performance.
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PJT posted 1 year ago.
mdd;76191 wrote:
One thing that everyone seems to forget about things like EPO, steriods, etc is that they are ILLEGAL! If you buy them, have them, use them, etc and are caught by the police you will GO TO JAIL. So how people can defend using illegal substances is beyond me. If something results in prison time then it certainly should not be used to enhance your race performance.
Read the article Anton linked to. There are perfectly legal ways to obtain some of these substances. Basically anyone can get a legal prescription for steroids, HGH, testoterone if they find the "right" doctor.
I'm not defending PEDs. Worst kind of cheating if you ask me. But in many cases in the U.S. it does not break the law to use and compete with them (in some other countries there are laws criminalizing "sports fraud" which I think cover PEDs).
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Anton posted 1 year ago.
Ok...point well taken PJT...so let me offer this.
It is legal to take things like EPO, steroids and especially as you get older testostrone. So you feel slugish, tired all the time, have no libido...you go to the doc and he tests you, finds your T-level is low and sets you up on a daily schedule of Testostrone. You are also a triathlete, runner, some kind of endurance type. After some months of meds you start racing again...with obviously improved results in your AG and overall...at levels you didn't achieve before.
Do you not accept the awards because you know you are enhanced? How do you justify your awards knowing you had an unfair advantage? At this point it's not about law but about personal integrity.
I've met guys at races in my AG and above and below by one, who look enhanced.If a Guy in my AG looks 25...thats not good genes...that's better racing through chemistry. I did an HIM several years ago and the winner of my AG and a high place overall, admitted he was on testostrone...and he looked it.
Like it or not, now that this issue is out, any guy in the 45-49 AG and above, who is pulling down times of 30 year olds...is suspect, and that would include me if that would ever happen.
"What would life be if we had no courage to attempt anything?" - Vincent Van Gogh
My Blog: http://anton.trifuel.net
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PJT posted 1 year ago.
Anton;76204 wrote:
Ok...point well taken PJT...so let me offer this.
It is legal to take things like EPO, steroids and especially as you get older testostrone. So you feel slugish, tired all the time, have no libido...you go to the doc and he tests you, finds your T-level is low and sets you up on a daily schedule of Testostrone. You are also a triathlete, runner, some kind of endurance type. After some months of meds you start racing again...with obviously improved results in your AG and overall...at levels you didn't achieve before.
Do you not accept the awards because you know you are enhanced? How do you justify your awards knowing you had an unfair advantage? At this point it's not about law but about personal integrity.
I've met guys at races in my AG and above and below by one, who look enhanced.If a Guy in my AG looks 25...thats not good genes...that's better racing through chemistry. I did an HIM several years ago and the winner of my AG and a high place overall, admitted he was on testostrone...and he looked it.
Like it or not, now that this issue is out, any guy in the 45-49 AG and above, who is pulling down times of 30 year olds...is suspect, and that would include me if that would ever happen.
Not a hard call for me. If I had to take PEDs for a legit medical condition and continued to race, at the very least I would (a) apply for a therapeutic use exemption which I know would never be granted to an age-grouper, but I would have at least declared my usage to the authorities and (b) never accept an award.
The harder question would be: should I quit racing entirely in that situation?
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beads1985 posted 1 year ago.
PJT;76207 wrote:
Not a hard call for me. If I had to take PEDs for a legit medical condition and continued to race, at the very least I would (a) apply for a therapeutic use exemption which I know would never be granted to an age-grouper, but I would have at least declared my usage to the authorities and (b) never accept an award.The harder question would be: should I quit racing entirely in that situation?
That is a good solution if you had to be on medication that could enhance your performance.
However, I wouldn't quit racing. The racing is something that makes you train which really is for you to stay healthy.
''Nothing to it, but to do it''
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PJT posted 1 year ago.
beads1985;76208 wrote:
That is a good solution if you had to be on medication that could enhance your performance.However, I wouldn't quit racing. The racing is something that makes you train which really is for you to stay healthy.
That's where it gets tough for me. I'm not sure if people who take PEDs for a legitimate purpose have an obligation under the rules not to enter any races. Assuming you don't, do you have a ethical obligation?
Consider that you have the potential to have an effect on other racers just by participating--for example, contact during the swim. You can also have an effect on someone else who may have a goal of finishing top 10 in the AG or something similar. Do you just ask the race director to time you as a participant but DQ you for PED use? That way, where you place at least doesn't interfere with someone else's goals. Would an RD even accomodate such a request?
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beads1985 posted 1 year ago.
PJT;76212 wrote:
That's where it gets tough for me. I'm not sure if people who take PEDs for a legitimate purpose have an obligation under the rules not to enter any races. Assuming you don't, do you have a ethical obligation?Consider that you have the potential to have an effect on other racers just by participating--for example, contact during the swim. You can also have an effect on someone else who may have a goal of finishing top 10 in the AG or something similar. Do you just ask the race director to time you as a participant but DQ you for PED use? That way, where you place at least doesn't interfere with someone else's goals. Would an RD even accomodate such a request?
I think if you follow thru on the
"If I had to take PEDs for a legit medical condition and continued to race, at the very least I would (a) apply for a therapeutic use exemption which I know would never be granted to an age-grouper, but I would have at least declared my usage to the authorities and (b) never accept an award"
Then at least you are acknowledging to the RD of an issue, which would then be a non issue if you you weren't accepting any award.
As far as you effect on other racers, I don't think it would be any worse than a normal race.
If you race as you have been, and follow race etiquette and don't turn into a roid-rage butthead I don't think it would be a problem.
''Nothing to it, but to do it''
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stewarba posted 1 year ago.
Anton;76204 wrote:
Ok...point well taken PJT...so let me offer this.
It is legal to take things like EPO, steroids and especially as you get older testostrone. So you feel slugish, tired all the time, have no libido...you go to the doc and he tests you, finds your T-level is low and sets you up on a daily schedule of Testostrone. You are also a triathlete, runner, some kind of endurance type. After some months of meds you start racing again...with obviously improved results in your AG and overall...at levels you didn't achieve before.
Do you not accept the awards because you know you are enhanced? How do you justify your awards knowing you had an unfair advantage? At this point it's not about law but about personal integrity.
The argument or flip side to what you described Anton is that you indicated that the person was medically declared to have less testosterone than the "average" person. In the athlete's eyes, wouldn't he now be on a level playing field as his other age groupers?
Just a point for thought...
Goals in writing are dreams with deadlines – Brian Tracy
2008 Sprint Tri A race goals
S: 500m in 10:00 – FS Stroke only
B: 22mph avg over course
R: 5K <= 25:00
Place top 50% for my age group
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Anton posted 1 year ago.
stewarba;76215 wrote:
The argument or flip side to what you described Anton is that you indicated that the person was medically declared to have less testosterone than the "average" person. In the athlete's eyes, wouldn't he now be on a level playing field as his other age groupers?Just a point for thought...
No..I don't think ithe field would be level...there you are at say my age,53, with the testostrone level well into the "normal" range of say someone in their mid forties (after supplimentation) but it's well above the level of the others in your AG...since T-levels decrease with age.
I know for myself...as much as I try...I am just not capable of some of the things I was even 5 years ago...If I were a 53 year old snarling "Type A" who just HAS to get to Kona..because it's on my life list of things to do...I be tempted to find a helpful doc...As it is i'm a mellow type B.
"What would life be if we had no courage to attempt anything?" - Vincent Van Gogh
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PJT posted 1 year ago.
stewarba;76215 wrote:
The argument or flip side to what you described Anton is that you indicated that the person was medically declared to have less testosterone than the "average" person. In the athlete's eyes, wouldn't he now be on a level playing field as his other age groupers?Just a point for thought...
Naturally occuring testoterone has a range for what is considered "normal." That amount varies by age too. Bringing someone up to "average" artificially means that you also bring that person's levels past those who are below average but not considered abnormally low or deficient. Is that fair? Do we even want to be opening this door?
I think that our natural hormone levels are one of the variables, like experience, money, equipment, free time, recovery ability, brains, lactate threshold, metabolism, diet control, etc., etc., etc., that just form the general inequalities of life in the sport of tri. We cannot hope to standardize these things for all competitors, so we should just live with what we have and do our best within the rules.
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JRH posted 1 year ago.
apparently my diabetic meds lower Testerone and I will be tracking my levels from now on. but don't see how getting medical treatment (actual medical treatment not a nudge and wink "treatment") to get me back to an "normal" level would be cheating. if you're an asthmatic you're allowed to use meds to allow to treat your condition that would get you booted otherwise.
proud and high or low and humble - many miles before I go
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stewarba posted 1 year ago.
PJT;76225 wrote:
Naturally occuring testoterone has a range for what is considered "normal." That amount varies by age too. Bringing someone up to "average" artificially means that you also bring that person's levels past those who are below average but not considered abnormally low or deficient. Is that fair? Do we even want to be opening this door?I think that our natural hormone levels are one of the variables, like experience, money, equipment, free time, recovery ability, brains, lactate threshold, metabolism, diet control, etc., etc., etc., that just form the general inequalities of life in the sport of tri. We cannot hope to standardize these things for all competitors, so we should just live with what we have and do our best within the rules.
I personally agree, just throwing it out from another perspective. I do sympathize with folks who may become allured into the realm of "anti-aging". As an almost 40 year old it is somewhat amazing how much tougher it is to go long and hard. It doesn't seem that long ago (in my mind) when I could and I took that for granted. I'm sure a ~50 year old would tell me that I haven't seen anything yet, but it doesn't take away from the fact that it has started for me and I'm aware of it.
However, from a competitive perspective I do in fact agree that there is no place for PEDs.
Goals in writing are dreams with deadlines – Brian Tracy
2008 Sprint Tri A race goals
S: 500m in 10:00 – FS Stroke only
B: 22mph avg over course
R: 5K <= 25:00
Place top 50% for my age group
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Anton posted 1 year ago.
Great discussion! I'm just happy that Age groupers ARE talking about it...This was a taboo subject just a few years ago with most everyone in denial that age group doping happens.
"What would life be if we had no courage to attempt anything?" - Vincent Van Gogh
My Blog: http://anton.trifuel.net
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beads1985 posted 1 year ago.
Anton;76232 wrote:
Great discussion! I'm just happy that Age groupers ARE talking about it...This was a taboo subject just a few years ago with most everyone in denial that age group doping happens.
It also is a great excuse for me when I don't do so well in a race.
"everybody else was doping"
''Nothing to it, but to do it''
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deepbluex posted 1 year ago.
It seems like if one starts taking testosterone as part of a medical treatment and you place first place in your AG of a field of triathletes, your medical condition couldn't have been so bad in the first place...
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JRH posted 1 year ago.
deepbluex;76241 wrote:
It seems like if one starts taking testosterone as part of a medical treatment and you place first place in your AG of a field of triathletes, your medical condition couldn't have been so bad in the first place...
um no means that your treatment is working well. I'll be getting my T levels back to a normal level not to exceed them. again asthmatics are allowed to take meds and compete if I have an actual medical condition w/ adequate backup why can't I compete?
proud and high or low and humble - many miles before I go
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Jetskr posted 1 year ago.
This is a pretty good thread here and offers some good insight but I do have one exception. That is with what Beads posted earlier.
beads1985;76122 wrote:
I believe that normal supplements you can get OTC at a Vitaman Shoppe, GNC, Drugstore, or other similar retailer is in NO way selling something that is remotely similar to illegal performance enhancing drugs. I don't believe those who are found guilty of using illegal substances and say that it "Accidentally" happened when their legal supplement is tainted. The only thing that is tainted is their story.
Currently supplements are not monitored or regulated by the FDA or any other government agency. There are a couple small watchdog groups out there but the companies are pretty much free to put what ever they want into the supplement as long as they don't directly claim that they treat or cure any illness or disease.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nutritional_supplements
If that link doesn't work just search for Nutritional supplements on wikipedia and they'll lay out the full story.
The only time I wouldn't believe that someone unknowingly received a banned PED is from an NFL player. They have a specific group they can turn to who will test and verify what is in the OTC supplement.
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PJT posted 1 year ago.
Jetskr;76245 wrote:
This is a pretty good thread here and offers some good insight but I do have one exception. That is with what Beads posted earlier.Currently supplements are not monitored or regulated by the FDA or any other government agency. There are a couple small watchdog groups out there but the companies are pretty much free to put what ever they want into the supplement as long as they don't directly claim that they treat or cure any illness or disease.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nutritional_supplements
If that link doesn't work just search for Nutritional supplements on wikipedia and they'll lay out the full story.The only time I wouldn't believe that someone unknowingly received a banned PED is from an NFL player. They have a specific group they can turn to who will test and verify what is in the OTC supplement.
There is actually a case out there where an Olympic-hopeful swimmer tested positive for a banned steroid, was suspended, and won a lawsuit against a vitamin maker for selling him a tainted product. Google the name "Kicker Vencill."
Update: here's a link to a story about it: http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/print?id=2059714&type=story
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beads1985 posted 1 year ago.
Jetskr;76245 wrote:
This is a pretty good thread here and offers some good insight but I do have one exception. That is with what Beads posted earlier.Currently supplements are not monitored or regulated by the FDA or any other government agency. There are a couple small watchdog groups out there but the companies are pretty much free to put what ever they want into the supplement as long as they don't directly claim that they treat or cure any illness or disease.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nutritional_supplements
If that link doesn't work just search for Nutritional supplements on wikipedia and they'll lay out the full story.The only time I wouldn't believe that someone unknowingly received a banned PED is from an NFL player. They have a specific group they can turn to who will test and verify what is in the OTC supplement.
I know that supplements are not monitored or regulated by the FDA.
When I stated that;
'' I believe that NORMAL supplements you can get OTC at a Vitaman Shoppe, GNC, Drugstore, or other similar retailer is in NO way selling something that is remotely similar to illegal performance enhancing drugs. I don't believe those who are found guilty of using illegal substances and say that it "Accidentally" happened when their legal supplement is tainted. The only thing that is tainted is their story.''
I was not saying that supplements at these retailers aren't regulated. I was trying to get a cross that the individuals who claim they are taking normal supplements and they were 'tainted' are not getting them from GNC like I am, and the normal supplements you might find there aren't going to enhance your performance like "performance enhancing'' drugs.
Basically, when Barry Bonds says he stopped into GNC and got some protien shake and now he is this huge monster, and maybe that protien powder was 'tainted' with dynabol, I seriously doubt the truth of his story.
''Nothing to it, but to do it''
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Jetskr posted 1 year ago.
beads1985;76265 wrote:
I know that supplements are not monitored or regulated by the FDA.When I stated that;
'' I believe that NORMAL supplements you can get OTC at a Vitaman Shoppe, GNC, Drugstore, or other similar retailer is in NO way selling something that is remotely similar to illegal performance enhancing drugs. I don't believe those who are found guilty of using illegal substances and say that it "Accidentally" happened when their legal supplement is tainted. The only thing that is tainted is their story.''I was not saying that supplements at these retailers aren't regulated. I was trying to get a cross that the individuals who claim they are taking normal supplements and they were 'tainted' are not getting them from GNC like I am, and the normal supplements you might find there aren't going to enhance your performance like "performance enhancing'' drugs.
Basically, when Barry Bonds says he stopped into GNC and got some protien shake and now he is this huge monster, and maybe that protien powder was 'tainted' with dynabol, I seriously doubt the truth of his story.
I guess we are talking the difference in degrees then.
I agree that it's HIGHLY unlikely that Barry Bonds isn't/wasn't taking PED's the baseball players association has been fighting off stronger testing and punishment policies for a long time.
My question isn't about Barry but about someone who takes a creatine supplement, for example. As far as I know it isn't banned by the USAT but has been shown to increase performance when used correctly. Is that cheating? More specifically, since that creatine isn't monitored and regulated it could have other substances in it, banned substances. Is the person who thinks they are buying regular creatine but, unknowingly, purchases a brand that does have something extra in it cheating?
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JRH posted 1 year ago.
Jetskr;76290 wrote:
I guess we are talking the difference in degrees then.I agree that it's HIGHLY unlikely that Barry Bonds isn't/wasn't taking PED's the baseball players association has been fighting off stronger testing and punishment policies for a long time.
My question isn't about Barry but about someone who takes a creatine supplement, for example. As far as I know it isn't banned by the USAT but has been shown to increase performance when used correctly. Is that cheating? More specifically, since that creatine isn't monitored and regulated it could have other substances in it, banned substances. Is the person who thinks they are buying regular creatine but, unknowingly, purchases a brand that does have something extra in it cheating?
yes unknowingly. it's like taking a wrong turn in a race you didn't mean to but you did. and if tri's are your livelihood you should know what you are putting in your body and the race course.
proud and high or low and humble - many miles before I go
http://www.insidetri.com/portal/blogs/blog.asp?strSession=60050327224390...
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RV posted 1 year ago.
JRH;76360 wrote:
yes unknowingly. it's like taking a wrong turn in a race you didn't mean to but you did. and if tri's are your livelihood you should know what you are putting in your body and the race course.
I agree - the individual is ultimately responsible to ensure that they are within the rules. Same for Age Groupers.
RV
It takes a long time to get good. - Scott Molina
Slow is smooth; smooth is fast. - Rich Strauss
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PrinceofClydes posted 1 year ago.
hipfan;76119 wrote:
..I admit that I am very ignorant when it comes to this issue, as I used to think it was a very black and white . But now I see that it could be quite easy to get a positive result from taking any of the supplements available at the vitamin store. I just don't seem to understand where we draw the line between what is legal and what we consider cheating.
Just a thought that went through my head today.
Cheers.
The crucial elements are two:
1) does the supplement / injection / device have harmful side effects - like, death, say, as in the case of amphetamines.
2) is it available to everyone, so that it is fair.
You might also add does the "thing" pose a risk to other competitors, as in the case of extreme aero bars putting the rider in the Superman position. That's why aerobars are not allowed in races where there is a peloton.
Suppose a supplement was legal in one country and illegal in another, would it be fair to allow it in races there?
If a bike weighing less than 15lbs were known to be a risk for breaking up and causing a crash that could take out other competitors you couldn't allow anyone to use it.
The further question, which is addressing the ethics of the competitor, is "What is the intent of taking the supplement?
Legislating against intent is problematic as others have noted above. Did she "know" she was taking the illegal substance? Did she know it would give her an "edge" over her competitors?
Answering those questions honestly tells us all we need to know to decide the right course of action.
Does that enlighten the problem for you?
PoC
"Pain doesn't last, chicks dig scars, glory is forever!"
- Shane Falco.
I just finished reading the two pieces on cheating and found them very interesting. But it got me wondering, where do we draw the line between cheating and training/competing?
If you look at triathlon, it is a sport full of things that could be considered "performance enhancing". From wet suits and aero bars to gels and gatorade. We even have shoe laces to get our shoes on faster. All you have to do is go through the pages of a tri magazine to see all of the powders and vitamins to help you recover quicker from training. They seem to me to be the same as takeing steroids or other performance enhancing drugs. You hae to do the training to get a benefit.
I admit that I am very ignorant when it comes to this issue, as I used to think it was a very black and white . But now I see that it could be quite easy to get a positive result from taking any of the supplements available at the vitamin store. I just don't seem to understand where we draw the line between what is legal and what we consider cheating.
Just a thought that went through my head today.
Cheers.