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Thoughts on choosing Athena or Clydesdale categories...

m2tall2's picture
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started by m2tall2 on July 30, 2007

I apologize in advance if this is discussed elsewhere, if so, please point me in the direction.

I am wondering what the general community thoughts are on eligibility for Athena and Clydesdale categories. I have noticed that the only requirement is weight (I don't know if that weight varies by event). For a race I am considering the Athena weight is 150+ and the Clydesdale weight is 200+.

My quandry is that most exceptionally tall men and women will naturally fit into that category unless they are amazingly fit. As a 6 ft tall, muscular woman, I am naturally over 150 lbs. Even though I could probably stand to loose 10 lbs in a persuit to reveal washboard abs, this still puts me hovering right around 153 ish - in tip top shape.

Would the general tri community still consider it appropriate for someone like me to register for an Athena or Clydesdale category? I only just completed my first race and would in no way be in shape to smoke anyone on the course (except in the swim). But I wouldn't want my ability level to justify entering that category. I'm really not even sure of the REAL purpose of these categories (except I know this is one venue where I am exceptionally jealous of the itty, bitty petite women on the bike and run).

Thanks in advance!

brittda's picture
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brittda posted 1 year ago.

I am in the same boat at 5'8. Even at my skinniest I am still hovering around "Athena". I register age group. Simply because I do not feel like I am any different than any "skinny" women.
Just my own opinion. Its up to you and how you personally want to compete. There is nothing right or wrong either way. I mean , it is what it is really :)

Triguy98's picture
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Triguy98 posted 1 year ago.

A dude registered under Clyde at my last race this weekend. He finished 4th overall. I think people like that should be racing AG, not Clyde. Clyde is a cop out- maybe at Half IM to IM it is a disadvantage to be bigger, but if you are a fit big, youre not gonna be much slower in the shorter races.

Life is short. Play hard and get dirty doing it.

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fpugsley posted 1 year ago.

I agree with Triguy.... I would rather work my butt off and beat the rest of my age groupers than dominate in the Clyde class. I am 6'4 and hover around 215-220 even with low body fat. No way can I run like a 5'10 145lb guy, but that just makes me work harder on the swim and bike.

fittycent's picture
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fittycent posted 1 year ago.

Triguy98;74703 wrote:
A dude registered under Clyde at my last race this weekend. He finished 4th overall. I think people like that should be racing AG, not Clyde. Clyde is a cop out- maybe at Half IM to IM it is a disadvantage to be bigger, but if you are a fit big, youre not gonna be much slower in the shorter races.

I disagree. Nothing wrong with registering as a clyde or athena, no matter how fast you are. Extra weight is a significant hindrance in the shorter distances too, even if you're lean. Otherwise, you'd see at least some elite athletes at or near the clydesdale size.

Look at some of the best splits in a competitive sprint for example - top AG men are turning in 15-17 minute runs. What clyde can come even close to that?

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Tikal Dog posted 1 year ago.

Triguy98;74703 wrote:
A dude registered under Clyde at my last race this weekend. He finished 4th overall. I think people like that should be racing AG, not Clyde. Clyde is a cop out- maybe at Half IM to IM it is a disadvantage to be bigger, but if you are a fit big, youre not gonna be much slower in the shorter races.

I also think you should be racing AG but I don´t agree with triguy it is going to make you slower at any race distance. of course if it´s longer you´ll suffer more and sacrifice even more time but it will hurt your sprint times also.

But.....remember the beautiful thing about this sport is that you are competing against yourself.

Hyperactive Trifueler!!!! (I refuse to let the status go :p)

tri-ac's picture
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tri-ac posted 1 year ago.

if i were more solidly (punny, huh? :) ) in the clyde category, i'd probably race there. there is a good reason to have the clyde/athena category...it's not a cop out category

i'm 6'5" and on the bubble for qualifying as clyde...certainly, no one would look at me and question it, but i race in AG because that's where most of the race entrants usually race. i like to measure my spot in the race crowd by those metrics

PrinceofClydes's picture
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PrinceofClydes posted 1 year ago.

Tom Price, M40-44 was 20th overall 3 weeks ago at the Desert Half Ironman (BBB did it too - 41 minutes behind Tom)
Tom is 6'2" and 200lbs or more.
He also won Ironman Canada twice - 20 years ago

Kelowna Apple Olympic DistanceTriathlon was won by Joop Bierskens of Red Deer in `1994. He was 6'2" 200lbs

I know these facts because I was there and I am 6'3" and a Clydesdale, 215lbs now.

Clydesdale and Athena categories are just to add a bit of fun, nothing more.
I like looking over the heads of the crowd at a marathon and nodding to the other tall / big runners as we make eye contact above the heads of the pencil necks who are about to leave us in their dust. heh.

I can't haul my 215lbs over the Richter pass like say, Alberto Contador can,
but if we even things up by strapping 90lbs of sandbags to his bike - I'll take him on and whip his skinny Spanish butt!

PoC

"Pain doesn't last, chicks dig scars, glory is forever!"
- Shane Falco.

tri-ac's picture
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tri-ac posted 1 year ago.

PrinceofClydes;74743 wrote:
I can't haul my 215lbs over the Richter pass like say, [b]Alberto Contador can,
but if we even things up by strapping 90lbs of sandbags to his bike - I'll take him on and whip his skinny Spanish butt!

PoC

I love it!! :D
[he might still beat you, tho]

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Great Greyhound posted 1 year ago.

Hear Hear, I race Clydesdale Class (6'5", 225#), and one of the guys in my AG regularly runs 5:30 mpm in a International Duo's for both runs....

No way, I can run a sub 6 mile, I've run 20:02 in a 5K, but was totally spent after that race!

Darrell "Legs 'n Lungs" Lenkner
in West Chester, Oh.
Check here for Images of us.

Triguy98's picture
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Triguy98 posted 1 year ago.

fittycent;74721 wrote:

Look at some of the best splits in a competitive sprint for example - top AG men are turning in 15-17 minute runs. What clyde can come even close to that?

http://www.drcsports.com/races/twilite/res07.shtml
Mr. Ashley Preston pumped out a 19:16 3 mile- not too shabby. He could use that leg mass to crank out a fast bike split- 25 mph- and had the 4th best swim. Didnt slow him down much, eh? Not sure what AG he is in, but those are pretty darn fast results for an AGer or Clyde. Clyde is fine if you wanna just have fun or what, but if you enter Clyde cause you cant win OA, or maybe even AG, thats not good sportsmanship.

I am 6'2 180lbs. I could see me being 200 lbs (and i was when i started racing) with more leg and back muscle. I wouldnt race Clyde. Shoot, I might win AG more often if that muscle mass allowed me a faster swim and bike.

Life is short. Play hard and get dirty doing it.

fittycent's picture
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fittycent posted 1 year ago.

Triguy98;74749 wrote:
Mr. Ashley Preston pumped out a 19:16 3 mile-

That is an excellent run split...for a Clyde...which is why he ought to be patted on the back rather than called a "poor sport."

Triguy98;74749 wrote:
Clyde is fine if you wanna just have fun or what, but if you enter Clyde cause you cant win OA, or maybe even AG, thats not good sportsmanship.

Couldn't disagree more - for reasons already stated.

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qb ant posted 1 year ago.

I agree with PoC, it's just an added group for some fun. I also think it's good for people who truly are at a disadvantage because of their weight and are trying to get back into shape - maybe they're not so intimidated and they feel more comfortable - especially if they're new. I know a coach who races Athena, and I'm sure she just makes it. She always places in that category - is that why she races Athena, probably. But at the end of the day, her time is her time and does it really matter?

"90% of the game is half mental" Yogi Berra

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brittda posted 1 year ago.

Well this is how I look at it...and it is just MY opinion from someone hovering in that catigory. I will never have the body to be a gymnast, a jockey , a figure skater. I am ok with that. I was given what I have and will make the best of it. My height alone dictates I will probably always be this way if I want to eat at all :p . Should I have a special catigory to compete in because of it, no I don't think so. I do the sport for challenges it gives me, the a satisfication of being fit and the journey to begin and see the race through.

Besides, its nice to kick the skinny peoples butts and know that just because I have a few extra pounds I am still more fit and healthier than most people out there on the street.

PrinceofClydes's picture
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PrinceofClydes posted 1 year ago.

tri-ac;74747 wrote:
I love it!! :D
[he might still beat you, tho]

Naw, his spokes would explode - like David Millar's did.

I'll beat him in a swim across the lake too, wanna bet?

Then we can talk hoops & tennis..

PoC

"Pain doesn't last, chicks dig scars, glory is forever!"
- Shane Falco.

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tri-ac posted 1 year ago.

PrinceofClydes;74785 wrote:
Naw, his spokes would explode - like David Millar's did.
PoC

...you mean, when you beat David Millar in the same contest? Wow!:rolleyes:

alberto might float due to capillary action he's so slim...

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silentnox posted 1 year ago.

I am 100% in favor of a Clyd class. I am 6'1" 209 with a six pack and damn its hard to run with these small guys. Sometimes my body type makes me want to switch sports because the odds are stacked against me.

I meen honestly guys, how much are we paying to shave a kilo off our bikes and there arnt weight classes? I weigh 50 lbs more then some of these guys. I don't think it should be an excuse for the people out of shape but if you are in top performance (and i am by no means in top shape) and cant get under 200 you deserve a weight class of your own.

I personally have been there deiting HARD to try and get my weight down. I just got tired of feeling like **** all the time and in the end performace hurt anyhow.

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trismitty posted 1 year ago.

It's a fact...extra weight is a disadvantage at any distance. Wider bodies mean more surface drag in the water and more drag on the bike. If you factor in hilly terrain, the difference is even moreso. I'm 6'3" and weigh around 210 lbs. I have run a sub 20 5k in a sprint race. VO2 max is in 95th percentile for age, but I'll never run with a 150 lb guy in my AG. If weight doesn't matter, then why are we ALL riding around on 17 lb. carbon rigs? I don't think any of you smaller guys want to get into a bench press contest with a fit Clyde, right? Why? Same principle here.

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Jstyle posted 1 year ago.

trismitty;74797 wrote:
It's a fact...extra weight is a disadvantage at any distance. Wider bodies mean more surface drag in the water and more drag on the bike. If you factor in hilly terrain, the difference is even moreso. I'm 6'3" and weigh around 210 lbs. I have run a sub 20 5k in a sprint race. VO2 max is in 95th percentile for age, but I'll never run with a 150 lb guy in my AG. If weight doesn't matter, then why are we ALL riding around on 17 lb. carbon rigs? I don't think any of you smaller guys want to get into a bench press contest with a fit Clyde, right? Why? Same principle here.

Werd...

If you don't mind racing in the catagory and you don't have the Stigma it is your right to race in that catagory. I don't hate at all cuz clydes have there own catagory if any one wants to race there then that is their right not our choice cuz we are smaller.

Ironmom's picture
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Ironmom posted 1 year ago.

I think you should go for it. One thing I think the Athena and Clydesdale categories are great for is encouraging more people to race and to compete. I honestly don't understand why AG'ers get their panties in a wad over this category - it doesn't take anything away from people placing in age groups to add a different category, and you can't qualify for Nationals or Worlds as an Athena/Clyde. It's just another way for people to compete with similar folks and to have fun.

I've entered as an Athena many times, and it's never to just "get on the podium". I'm usually on the podium in my age group anyways. I enter because I think it's great for people to understand that bigger athletes are at a disadvantage, especially in an endurance sport like triathlon, but that we can still be fit and pretty darn fast. I've only been under 150 pounds for about 2 weeks in my adult life, even when training for IM-distance races. So this is my natural size. Sometimes my muscle gives me an advantage - say on a windy bike course where the smaller gals are getting blown around. But some of them will still pass my on the run because at 115 pounds it's a whole lot easier to run a 6:00 mile than it is at 160 pounds! I'd love to strap a 50 pound backpack on some of these skinny minnies who are complaining about the Clydesdale categories and ask them to run 30 miles a week with it on, LOL.

If you feel like competing as an Athena, I say go for it! That's what the category is made for, and it works on the same principle as the AG categories - that people should be able to compete with other similar folks. An 80 year old can't compete with a 35 year old, and you probably won't see an Athena or Clyde on the Kona platform, but these categories give folks a place to compete.

Blue Skies, -Robin-
http://ironmom.blogspot.com/

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PrinceofClydes posted 1 year ago.

tri-ac;74790 wrote:
...you mean, when you beat David Millar in the same contest? Wow!:rolleyes:

alberto might float due to capillary action he's so slim...

Couldn't beat Millar - he's got a better pharmacist.

re: This "Clyde" thing.. the somatotypes of athletes has been studied well and some coaches even select athletes for (or reject them) a sport based on their body-type. Power - weight ratio favours some activities over others for a given athlete.

Ckydes don't climb well, not on bicycles or with slick boots and chalky fingers and my hat's off to any Clyde /Athena who makes a go of rock-climbing. That sport is for spiders not bodybuilders.

So horses for courses. Carrying the extra weight in an endurance event makes it more challenging. Some of us think that kind of challenge is fun. Those who don't, like say, Darryl Haley, try the sport, then give it up as a bad job and go back to football, or golf or spectating. The rest of us just get back on the bike and work a little harder, because we have to just to keep up, if we can.

And I'm not holding my breath that the TdF guys are going to drop by my gym any time soon and shout out, "who's got game?"

Go Clydes, Go!

PoC

"Pain doesn't last, chicks dig scars, glory is forever!"
- Shane Falco.