Swim Pace - Endurance Help
A couple things came to my mind when reading your post:
#1: You might not be winded, you might be experiencing a panicky feeling? I know I get this sometimes swimming in open water, and I've been doing it for 20+ years! If so, you can take a couple of breaststrokes and calm down, then continue swimming. It seems like if you can swim 1000 yards in a pool, then 600 in open water shouldn't pose a problem, fitness-wise.
#2: Your technique is not as good in open water as it is in the pool. This is understandable since there are so many distractions in a triathlon - waves, people, etc. that technique often goes downhill. Can you practice open-water swimming with a focus on keeping good technique? Technique can mean the difference between feeling smooth and feeling like you're barely struggling to keep afloat.
#3: If this is helpful, my mantra when I start out any distance swim (to keep my pace nice and even) is: "Slow is smooth. Smooth is fast. Therefore slow is fast." That keeps my stroke even, smooth, and at a distance pace.
Good luck!
Blue Skies, -Robin-
http://ironmom.blogspot.com/
Now i'm all scared for my first tri this weekend. I guess i'll see how it goes...
#3: If this is helpful, my mantra when I start out any distance swim (to keep my pace nice and even) is: "Slow is smooth. Smooth is fast. Therefore slow is fast." That keeps my stroke even, smooth, and at a distance pace.Good luck!
Like your mantra!
RV
It takes a long time to get good. - Scott Molina
Slow is smooth; smooth is fast. - Rich Strauss
This past time in the last 200 yards I tried to breast stroke for a bit and then back to crawl and I only did about 5-6 strokes before I went back to breast stroke. I was breathing very hard in T1 and then did 13 miles on the bike at 20.5mph average which is my best pace so far. Maybe it is panic. The feeling is pretty much the same as the fifth 50m on a 1 minute interval in the pool.
I was on the way back to shore so I shouldn't have been in panic mode. If this is what panic/anxiety feels like it is definitely a new and confusing feeling. I will certainly give the mantra a shot.
It's easy to egg beat your way through the first 200 or more yards of the washing machine and end up hyperventilating. I still re-learn this lesson periodically. Last month in a sprint, for the first time, I had to flop over on my back to catch my breath and stifle a panic attack, or whatever it was. Weird. My best swims occur when I relax and find my own pace instead of trying to keep up with everyone else.
Swimming is the roughest for me. I was surprised though at my first tri last weekend (yay I did it!) the swimming was not as intense as I expected. I swim in open water (choppy good ol Lake Michigan) about3-5 days a week and this seemed to give me an advantage. I did a mixture of freestyle and then side stroke to catch my breath. I ended up in the middle of the pack which I was very happy with.
I, too, get this "oh man I can't catch my breath feeling." I've noticed as of recent that if I give myself a few strokes of coming up for air with each right arm stroke for maybe 3 strokes or so it seems to help. Is this a bad habit to get into? I typically come up on every other stroke.
I am also finding that the smoother I get at swimming and the rythym of it all that my breathing is getting a lot better. I wish I could rush the process but... I think that this may just be something that gets better with time... like most things... you have to start somewhere:)
I, too, get this "oh man I can't catch my breath feeling." I've noticed as of recent that if I give myself a few strokes of coming up for air with each right arm stroke for maybe 3 strokes or so it seems to help. Is this a bad habit to get into? I typically come up on every other stroke.
I breathe with every right arm stroke throughout every tri and open water swim. I think I read somewhere that this is common among fast tri swimmers???? {shrug} I was faster in the swim than half of the women's Pro field (and some of the men's Pros) at IMFL last year, so I don't think it's a habit that necessarily slows one down.
Blue Skies, -Robin-
http://ironmom.blogspot.com/
One thing I don't think anyone has mentioned...breathing out.
Seems simple, but alot of people, especially in the first rush off the beach let their breathing get out of control by forgetting to breathe out while there face is in the water...when their face breaks the surface they try and do both...breathe out AND in...not good. Since nature abhors a vacume, if you roll for air with empty lungs,,,man! the air just rushes in...
For the record I bi-lat breathe in training but breathe like Mom when racing...everytime my right arm extends out and I roll, my face is in the air sucking in the good gasses! I'm not fast but I get out of the swim feeling like "Wa-Hoo! What's next!" Instead of "OMG...I'm wacked already!"
"What would life be if we had no courage to attempt anything?" - Vincent Van Gogh
My Blog: http://agingsuperhero.blogspot.com
Are you doing the Columbus Tri in Aug? I will be there :-) I have the same problem that you do but its getting better. What I have found is that the calmer I stay in the water the better I am. I have come a long way since not being able to swim 25 meters 3 months ago and now just finished my 4th tri. I think the more time you spend in the water the better you will become. Don't be frustrated with it :-) I just tell myself... i just gotta get through it and back on land :)
Mark,
Good job, it sounds like you have continued to conquer the swim challenge without giving up. Don't worry, it takes time and practice, you'll get there.
It doesn't say on your post, are you wearing a wetsuit during the race. If so, could that tight feeling also be contributing to your issue? I remember the first time I swam with a wetsuit, I wasn't sure i'd make the distance and I could swim 4 to 5 thousand yards in the pool no problem. I also remember that my breathing was much higher that first race. Eventually I got comfortable in my wetsuit and haven't had a problem since. If you don't have a wetsuit, do the races your participate in allow them? If so, I'd get one, they will help you.
Besides the wetsuit, nerves/stress can contribute to your issue. You might be comfortable swimming in a pool all by yourself in a lane but when you add open water and many people at the same time, your heart rate can increase dramatically, which will cause a panic feeling and possibly cause your shortness of breath. I would suggest doing more open water swimming.
You mention you have a coach to help you with your stroke but you might need a coach to give you specific workouts. Just swimming 1000 yards non-stop in a pool is not going to get you to go faster. You need to do some interval work. You need some workouts that will get you use to swimming faster. Is there a masters swim program in your neck of the woods, if so check them out. Don't worry about being slow, they usually have people of all abilities swimming. If not search the web and you'll find some specific swim workouts.
TRImapper.com - visual triathlon finder
TRIJUICE.com - triathlon resource blog
durhamj11 - No, I'm looking at the big downs in shelbyville on 8/5. I thought the problem was better at Eagle Creek, but it returned at Morse:mad:
I'm way too stubborn to give up just yet. The water here is warm now so no wetsuits. I do mix up the training. I did intervals this morning with drills, etc. Normally, I exhale under water/inhale above. I guess the only advice that I haven't tried yet is more OWS. Time to make that a priority.
Some people are saying that they flip on to their back when this happens. Is this to do some backstroke or float or just kick? I flip on my back and sink like a stone.
The weird thing is this panic idea. I've snorkeled in the ocean for hours at a time. I have no issues with the water or the stuff you can't see or the fish or weeds. When I get tired, I don't feel like I'm going to drown since I can easily tread water or breast stroke. Is there any difference in the feeling of panic/anxiety and out of breath from swimming above your ability?
Thanks for all the feedback!!
Another one from Indy! Cool!
Aside from the above advice, how often are you breathing? For distance OWS there is absolutely nothing wrong with breathing every stroke, and a lot of really good distance guys do.
As far as possibly swimming above your ability, I usually experience muscle fatigue and elevated heart rate before trouble breathing if I'm going too fast.
It might just take some time, keep thinking positive in that you said it was better at Eagle Creek, don't think about the time it returned.
We need to organize a Trifuel Indy meet up sometime...
Hey, you Indy folks! I'm down in B'town during the academic year! How's the Indy sprint in August? I'm a newbie, so I don't know much. But like many of you, the swim took me a little by surprise--I felt so prepared from weeks of focused training at the pool and a few open water swims, but at my first race my form was terrible and I really felt like panicking. I'd reiterate Anton's point about breathing out while your face is in the water. Seems to be as effective as consciously blowing out air during a run, if that makes sense. For this reason, I tried to continue bi-lat breathing during the race so that I got as much out of my lungs as I took in when I came up. That slowed me down enough to straighten up my form a bit. Just something that seemed to work for me.
Di mana ada kemauan, di situ ada jalan (Where there is desire, there is a road). – Indonesian proverb
I have had the same problem with feeling extremely out of breath during a swim, to the point of having to stop. I'm not a fast swimmer or very experienced by any means, but here is what i changed:
1. breath every stroke. every time my right arm comes up i breath.
2. focus on breathing out, hard, as soon as your face hits the water, until it is out of the water again and you are inhaling. i think this is really important.
3. kick less! i found that i was expending a ton of energy and getting winded because i was kicking too hard too much. if I start to feel winded i focus on kicking only 1-2 times per stroke, or even just enough to keep my legs from sinking. for a while, i was kicking too little, but bit by bit have worked up to a good level of kicking for speed without getting winded.
hope this helps! keep working hard!
I had no issues with the 500m swim at today's event. Thanks everyone for taking the time to respond to my post. I applied all the advice and it paid off. I messed up Mom's mantra, but the concept worked. I went with a cross between swim smooth and 'just keep swimming' from Nemo. Ha!! I kicked way less and made a point to forcefully exhale under water. I stayed back about 15 sec after my wave started and swam way wide all the way around the course. I was very please with my time of 13:31.
nice work! congratulations. now you can work on getting faster and faster and faster :)
Wow, I am really getting alot from these posts, thank you all so much. Triathlon is a brand new thing for me, and Aug. 25, is my
1st one... learning to swim freestyle correctly is a real trip. It's interesting to learn that the issues my partner and I are going through are not uncommon, and are part of the process. I did notice yesterday while watching the Escape from Alcatraz, that the swimmers appeared to take a breath every other stroke, which was something I thought was wrong, and reserved for "emergency mode"!






I just completed sprint #3 and I'm still struggling with the swim. It took me over 18 minutes to do 600 yards at the last event. I've been practicing 2-3 hrs/week since April. I work with a coach off and on to correct form issues. I can easily swim 1000 meters in the pool without stopping. My problem is that I get about 2/3 of the way through the course and I feel like I can't catch my breath. I only made it about 100ft at the first event before I was winded, but I've learned that sprint doesn't really mean sprint. I applied the advice to slow down at event 2 and things were much better, but still a struggle. I swam event 3 as slow as I thought I could go and I still got winded with 200 yards to go and had to switch to survival mode which really wears me out.
There is a longer event coming up in a little less than a month that has a 1/2 mile swim. I'd love to give it a shot, but I have to fix this problem first. I feel like I've read the entire Internet on this topic and all that I've learned is that I'm not alone and I need more OWS practice.
Is it possible that I'm still swimming too fast for my level of fitness even though it feels really slow? How can I find a pace that will allow me to complete the course swimming properly? Is there some counting trick or is it just by feel/experience? Does turning around every 50 meters actually give me enough of a break to not get winded in the pool? Should I turn around without touching the wall?
Another side of this that I keep thinking about is do I just need to fight through the winded feeling and force myself to continue swimming properly. I'm not normally afraid of the water; however, I look for the nearest life guard / buoy when I start to lose my breath.
Any tips, advice, tough love is appreciated.
Thanks,
Mark