Quantcast

Long post: Angry triathlete could learn a few things too

ht001's picture
Posts
205
Member
1546 days
started by ht001 on June 29, 2007

In a race last weekend I was confronted with the wrath of a very angry old triathlete about my apparent lack of knowledge of the cycling rules. This was notably the worst experience I have ever had while racing, and I can’t believe that someone who is so angry would even participate in this sport that I love so much and in which I invest so much energy, time, and emotion.

In the four years and 12 events that have made up my triathlon life to date I have never had any trouble with knowing what to do when overtaken or when passing. I understand my responsibility on the bike course to help the event run smoothly for all involved. But on Sunday, while riding along at an even and focused pace in my aerobars I suddenly noticed that this man’s rear derailleur was about to make contact with my front wheel. Because I was surprised I said out loud, “Whoa, whoa.” Note that I didn’t say anything like “hey you idiot, what the #%$! Do you think you are doing.” I was simply slow to react to the fact that this was not a normal pass, and that had he continued to veer and I couldn’t get out of the way he would have made contact and both of us would be down.

By that point it was too late. I had already triggered something within him and off he went. He yelled with such anger about how I obviously don’t know the rules and how I am supposed to fall back when passed, and how I need to learn the rules, etc. Then he stopped pedaling and coasted along side of me, all the while still yelling. I have to tell you I was scared. I don’t think I have ever been yelled at like that, even in my childhood. I didn’t know what he might do next; I was frankly stunned at the rage that he was expressing. I felt I needed to get away from him, so I sped up. That was the wrong move, though, that set him off again. “See you don’t know the rules! You are passing on the right and that is an illegal pass!” At that point I figured I was doomed, there was no way he was going to let me off. At that point I asked him as kindly as possible, to please move on, and I stopped pedaling until he went on by leaving me to try to control my heart rate and regain my focus.

After all of that I decided I’d better check the rules. I was open to the possibility that I may not have acted in full accordance with the rules. Turns out a little refresher might help me, but lo and behold there are also some key areas that he could stand to brush up on as well. Our respective lessons are listed below in bold.

My lesson lies in the following from the Cycling Conduct section of the USAT rules:

g. Being Overtaken. When the leading edge of the front wheel of one cyclist passes beyond the front wheel ofanother cyclist, the second cyclist has been "overtaken" within the meaning of these Rules. A cyclist who hasbeen overtaken bears primary responsibility for avoiding a position foul and must immediately move to the rear and out of the drafting zone of the passing cyclist. The overtaken cyclist shall first move completely out of the drafting zone of the other cyclist before attempting to re-pass the other cyclist. In no case, however, shall a participant move into the path of another participant possessing the right of way.

His lessons lies in the following, also from the Cycling Conduct section:

c. Right-of -Way. A participant is generally entitled to assume any otherwise proper location on the cycling course provided that the participant arrives in the position first without contacting another participant. When taking a position near another participant, however, a cyclist shall not crowd the other participant and shall allow reasonable space for the other participant to make normal movement without making contact.
e. Passing. A participant who approaches another cyclist from the rear or from another unfavorable position
bears primary responsibility for avoiding a position foul
even if the cyclist being approached decreases speed. A participant must not attempt to pass another cyclist unless adequate space is available and the athlete is confident of his/her ability to pass the other cyclist. All passing is to be done to the left of the cyclist being overtaken unless otherwise specified.

So sir, if you are out there I apologize for my violation and the terrible inconvenience it seems to have caused you. I hope that we can both learn from this experience and become better stewards of the course rules in our next races.

PS: Yes, I did pass him again, and didn't see him again the rest of the race.

PJT's picture
Posts
1288
Member
1559 days
PJT posted 2 years ago.

Just some clarification, was his rear derailleur about to hit your front wheel b/c he passed you and moved in front of you that sharply? Or, did you ride up on him without being passed or ride up on him immediately after he passed you without falling back?

Regardless, even if you were in the wrong, there was no excuse for him to coast next to you and start yelling. I couldn't imagine wasting the time and energy during a race to do that to another competitor. In fact, it may also have been a violation of the rules:

3.3 General Conduct. At or during an event, or while at the event site, all participants must:
a. Act in compliance with these Competitive Rules;
b. Conduct themselves in a manner that is not offensive in any way to fellow participants, spectators, officials or
volunteers and is considered reasonable and acceptable in the community;
c. Treat all participants, officials, volunteers and spectators with fairness, respect and courtesy;
d. Refrain from the use of abusive language or conduct; and
e. After violating any of the Competitive Rules, report such violation to the Head Referee or retire from the
event.

There's a small percentage of people in the world who are just jerks. One of the things that attracted me to tri was there seemed to be relatively fewer of them in tri than, say, in a softball league. It's possible you'll go 12 more races before you ever have another such encounter. Enjoy that fact, commit yourself to never joining their ranks, and don't let this continue to bother you too much.

P.S. Regarding his passing on the right comment, the proper response would have been to let him know he was committing a blocking/position foul by riding next to you. ;)

ht001's picture
Posts
205
Member
1546 days
ht001 posted 2 years ago.

PJT;72028 wrote:
Just some clarification, was his rear derailleur about to hit your front wheel b/c he passed you and moved in front of you that sharply? Or, did you ride up on him without being passed or ride up on him immediately after he passed you without falling back?

It was option A. He started the pass, and before he had cleared the length of my bike had swerved over to get in front of me. That is a good point of clarification. Because if I had sped up to try to prevent the pass I would have definitely and intentionally violated the rules.

PJT's picture
Posts
1288
Member
1559 days
PJT posted 2 years ago.

Yeah, even though the rules imply that you should be able to move over right away after a pass (because the passed rider is supposed to be dropping back), I never do. Instead, I don't move over until I'm positive my entire bike has cleared his front wheel with some room to spare. Why? Because the passed rider rarely, if ever, drops back immediately when my front wheel passes his--and I won't create a dangerous situation by moving like that (endangerement is its own rule violation too, besides being incredibly stupid).

In fact, in races around here I think the "drop back after being overtaken" rule is the single least observed rule of the cycling leg. Most of the time, it's not really a safety issue because the person doing the passing is going fast enough to put several bike lengths between him and the person being passed rather quickly. Here, where the guy obviously wasn't going that much faster than you, it became a problem.

It sounds like you just had the bad luck to run across someone who was looking for any excuse to blow his top, and you provided him with a convenient, if weak, reason. Good on you for not lowering yourself to his level and I hope things go better for you in the future.

Blitz's picture
Posts
707
Member
1614 days
Blitz posted 2 years ago.

So sir, if you are out there I apologize for my violation and the terrible inconvenience it seems to have caused you. I hope that we can both learn from this experience and become better stewards of the course rules in our next races.

PS: Yes, I did pass him again, and didn't see him again the rest of the race.

Don't waste an apology on someone like that. In fact, he doesn't seem like the kind of guy that would be social enough to read a forum, and surely not nice enough to hang out in the Trifuel.

:)

cayman's picture
Posts
998
Member
1192 days
cayman posted 2 years ago.

Although we as triathletes think ours is a perfect world populated by reasonable, like minded individuals, it ain't always so. Jerks, unfortunately, can be found in all walks of life. Sad, but true

One word, Karma. This idiots day will come and payback is a bi@#h.

jharrell's picture
Posts
23
Member
1523 days
jharrell posted 2 years ago.

You did nothing wrong.
You're not passed until the passer is completely by you. Not 1/2 way or 2/3's or even 9/10's but completely in front. The reason you drop back when you've been passed is to avoid the drafting zone. You're under no obligation to drop back just to make it easier for someone else. That said there are times when I know I'm slower I'll let someone go and conserve my energy for further down the road. It all depends on the situation.

Unfortunately some people are just jerks. You happened to find one and I wouldn't let it bother you any longer than it takes to read one of the responses to your question.

PJT's picture
Posts
1288
Member
1559 days
PJT posted 2 years ago.

jharrell;72038 wrote:
You did nothing wrong.
You're not passed until the passer is completely by you. Not 1/2 way or 2/3's or even 9/10's but completely in front.

Rule 5.10(g) says differently:

Being Overtaken. When the leading edge of the front wheel of one cyclist passes beyond the front wheel of
another cyclist, the second cyclist has been "overtaken" within the meaning of these Rules. A cyclist who has
been overtaken bears primary responsibility for avoiding a position foul and must immediately move to the rear
and out of the drafting zone of the passing cyclist. The overtaken cyclist shall first move completely out of the
drafting zone of the other cyclist before attempting to re-pass the other cyclist.

I do agree that the guy who yelled at ht was a jerk, tho.

PrinceofClydes's picture
Posts
2323
Member
1895 days
PrinceofClydes posted 2 years ago.

I think that there is no justification for bad behaviour even if he thought you were in violation.
Slowing down to lecture you was just stupid. That cost him more time in the race than your error could have justified. He clearly felt lecturing you was more important than the race. Idiot.

Hey, I'm glad nothing serious came of it, like say, a brawl like we see when the pitcher brushes back a batter with a 90mph fastball around his ears!

better luck next time,

PoC

""Your ass looks fantastic. Are the kids in bed yet???"
- TonisTri. 10/2009

LongTime's picture
Posts
112
Member
987 days
LongTime posted 2 years ago.

Is it OK to speed up as someone begins an attempt to pass you? I've seen this numerous times. Someone tries to pass on a hill when the guy on the right surges, resulting in the initial attempt at passing to fail.

imo, I see nothing wrong with picking up the pace if someone is trying to pass, but when their front wheel is in front of yours, you have to drop back.

kylie's picture
Posts
5318
Member
2000 days
kylie posted 2 years ago.

It is not against the rules until their front tire passes yours. However, it can be bad sportsmanship. If they have been gaining on you and pass you, let them pass, and then repass if it was a wakeup call for you that you weren't going as hard as you can.

I personally get annoyed when someone (often a guy) sees that I'm passing and then picks it up just enough that I can't make it in the time limit. So I have to drop back. And they slow again, and we repeat soon after. If they are stronger than you, let them by and try to earn your way back past them. Don't pull out your ego if you are then going to back off.

Miles of Life --- Powered by MarkyV

mdd's picture
Posts
375
Member
1190 days
mdd posted 2 years ago.

You should have dropped that old fool!!!! I give you credit for being as respectful and kind as you were because it was more than he deserved.

jharrell's picture
Posts
23
Member
1523 days
jharrell posted 2 years ago.

PJT;72045 wrote:
Rule 5.10(g) says differently:

Being Overtaken. When the leading edge of the front wheel of one cyclist passes beyond the front wheel of
another cyclist, the second cyclist has been "overtaken" within the meaning of these Rules. A cyclist who has
been overtaken bears primary responsibility for avoiding a position foul and must immediately move to the rear
and out of the drafting zone of the passing cyclist. The overtaken cyclist shall first move completely out of the
drafting zone of the other cyclist before attempting to re-pass the other cyclist.

I do agree that the guy who yelled at ht was a jerk, tho.

You're right, I was mistaken. (Not the first time!)

I still think the guy was a jerk though.

ht001's picture
Posts
205
Member
1546 days
ht001 posted 2 years ago.

PJT;72045 wrote:
Rule 5.10(g) says differently:

Being Overtaken. When the leading edge of the front wheel of one cyclist passes beyond the front wheel of
another cyclist, the second cyclist has been "overtaken" within the meaning of these Rules. A cyclist who has
been overtaken bears primary responsibility for avoiding a position foul and must immediately move to the rear
and out of the drafting zone of the passing cyclist. The overtaken cyclist shall first move completely out of the
drafting zone of the other cyclist before attempting to re-pass the other cyclist.

I agree PJT...please see this same rule in my original post where I noted that this is my lesson out of the whole experience.

Thanks to all of you for helping me sort this out, and letting me get it out of my head.

At least we know the rest of us can get along and help each other out.

PJT's picture
Posts
1288
Member
1559 days
PJT posted 2 years ago.

LongTime;72052 wrote:
Is it OK to speed up as someone begins an attempt to pass you? I've seen this numerous times. Someone tries to pass on a hill when the guy on the right surges, resulting in the initial attempt at passing to fail.

imo, I see nothing wrong with picking up the pace if someone is trying to pass, but when their front wheel is in front of yours, you have to drop back.

I think it's OK within the rules. Personally, I'm usually trying to maintain a target effort, so I try not to get involved in a bike race during a triathlon b/c it can take you out of your game plan. (Of course, if I were gunning for a podium spot that strategy might change depending on who was trying to pass me, but that hasn't been an issue yet...)

LongTime's picture
Posts
112
Member
987 days
LongTime posted 2 years ago.

I understand it is poor form to speed up just as someone is passing you. It does seem better sportsmanship to let them pass, and if you're able pass them later. Yes, I've seen a lot of cyclists work themselves into the red zone to keep someone from passing them. I know in many races I've passed and been re-passed by the same folks repeatedly, which is fine by me.

PJT's picture
Posts
1288
Member
1559 days
PJT posted 2 years ago.

LongTime;72082 wrote:
I understand it is poor form to speed up just as someone is passing you. It does seem better sportsmanship to let them pass, and if you're able pass them later. Yes, I've seen a lot of cyclists work themselves into the red zone to keep someone from passing them. I know in many races I've passed and been re-passed by the same folks repeatedly, which is fine by me.

Good point that what's OK by the rules may not be good form. From the MOP, it makes no sense for me to speed up. What say the FOPers?

Jstyle's picture
Posts
771
Member
1749 days
Jstyle posted 2 years ago.

You know what I call that when people behave like that HATERS!!! He was pissed because he barely passed you and couldn't keep holding it...

jnrice's picture
Posts
588
Member
442 days
jnrice posted 1 year ago.

The real story is that the "hater" was drafting off of you and couldn't cut it on his own so he got mad and pulled into your lane. Think about it, if they had on enough speed to pass you, you shouldn't have to "drop back" that much. They should continue to pass you without your help. I know what the USAT rules states and it's to keep people who are getting passed from accelerating to prevent the pass. If this guy was in a big enough of a hurry to get into your line then he was probably drafting off of you.

When I pass I don't start passing unless I can overtake them by a full draft zone. I just don't trust other riders to clear out of my way. It's not worth crossing wheels and going down. Thanks for bringing up some good USAT rules. I don't know if I've ever read the entire list of rules.

gfd's picture
Posts
1816
Member
1393 days
gfd posted 1 year ago.

It made no sense for the guy to risk an accident by cutting in front of you so quickly. What was there to gain? I pass a ton of people in my races because of my MOP to BOP swim times. Never would I risk cutting in front of someone. Error on the side of caution, especially when going 20+ mph. Being grumpy and yelling at another athlete does not fit into the mindset of this sport. Maybe something is in the air the last few weeks because my race, 2 weeks ago, has the most negative attitudes of any one I have ever been a part of. You have a great attitude ht001. Way to get him back later in the race. IF you would have given him a little, "Now that's how you pass someone" upon overtaking him, his entire week would have been ruined. But that wouldn't have been classy.

"If we help someone else up a steep hill, we get nearer to the top ourselves." ~Unknown~
~Garen~
http://baldhungariantriproject.blogspot.com/

tsilcyc's picture
Posts
872
Member
1239 days
tsilcyc posted 1 year ago.

Rule 5.10(z) states a hypothetical situation:

While riding along minding your own business, another rider (we shall refer to as DICK) attempts to pass you in an unsafe manner. Upon nearly completing said pass, DICK then gets angry at your concern of his stupidity. In this situation DICK has failed to properly complete his pass and is in violation of unsportsman like conduct.

At USAT we want you to have a successful and safe race and we encourage you not to be a DICK.

Have a nice day. :)

-------------------------------------------------------------------
Check out my Log: http://www.felog.net/users/teamsln/query_log.aspx
Check out my Blog: http://www.felog.net/feblog/

beads1985's picture
Posts
5783
Member
2082 days
beads1985 posted 1 year ago.

tsilcyc wrote:
Rule 5.10(z) states a hypothetical situation:

While riding along minding your own business, another rider (we shall refer to as DICK) attempts to pass you in an unsafe manner. Upon nearly completing said pass, DICK then gets angry at your concern of his stupidity. In this situation DICK has failed to properly complete his pass and is in violation of unsportsman like conduct.

At USAT we want you to have a successful and safe race and we encourage you not to be a DICK.

Have a nice day. :)

Nice!! How did you know his name was Richard and he used his nickname?
;-)
The passing situation where someone cuts it too close, or maybe you cut it too close happens all the time at events. Most of the time it is just a moment of improper cycling, not malicious at all.

The rare part is having one of the parties get super hostile.

We really don't know who is in the wrong, but you did the sportsmanlike thing. You checked the rules and accepted the fact you might be in the wrong and apologized in a public form where this person might see it.

You did a good thing and set a good example.
Kudos to you and I am sure Karma will be kind to you.

If I was Richard I would feel like crap for the incident.
You maybe a MOP'er but you are the superior person!! ;-)

'Nothing to it, but to do it!'

deepbluex's picture
Posts
835
Member
1508 days
deepbluex posted 1 year ago.

On a more general note, I've also encountered or witnessed a couple of "aggro" triathletes in the last few years of racing. Thankfully these appeared to be very isolated situations and without reflecting on the tri community at large... but it reminds me that just like anywhere, be it the freeway or the workplace or in a supermarket, you never know what kind of mental state people bring to the table. As a younger man, I might have met hostility in kind but now I find that there is greater gain by simply cutting a prompt retreat away from any source of "crazy".

I once racked next to a guy and he got completely mad at me for getting in his way. I simply moved my bike and gear to another rack. he went off on the next person who tried to rack into the obviously giant empty spot next to him. I could have argued the issue to show him I was in the right but in life, it's not always about being right but about finding and maintaining your peace that is of greater value.

beads1985's picture
Posts
5783
Member
2082 days
beads1985 posted 1 year ago.

deepbluex wrote:
I could have argued the issue to show him I was in the right but in life, it's not always about being right but about finding and maintaining your peace that is of greater value.

Discretion is the better part of valor,

What all men are really after is some form, or perhaps only some formula, of peace.
-- Joseph Conrad

'Nothing to it, but to do it!'

ht001's picture
Posts
205
Member
1546 days
ht001 posted 1 year ago.

deepbluex wrote:

I once racked next to a guy and he got completely mad at me for getting in his way. I simply moved my bike and gear to another rack. he went off on the next person who tried to rack into the obviously giant empty spot next to him. I could have argued the issue to show him I was in the right but in life, it's not always about being right but about finding and maintaining your peace that is of greater value.

Probably good that you moved all your stuff yourself in this case. I have a friend who had her stuff moved by SOMEONE ELSE in transition. Luckily she found her stuff before the race. Imagine running into TA and finding your entire pile of gear + bike not being there.

Hard to say what's wrong with some of these people...well except those described in that rule...what was it? 5.10(z)? NICE!

It is always amazing how snarky some people can be.

tsilcyc's picture
Posts
872
Member
1239 days
tsilcyc posted 1 year ago.

There was a local race where someone locked other competitors bikes in the transition area. The RD had to get bolt cutters to cut the locks off. Sad.

-------------------------------------------------------------------
Check out my Log: http://www.felog.net/users/teamsln/query_log.aspx
Check out my Blog: http://www.felog.net/feblog/