Can I take 45 Minutes off my next IM Florida?
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Homebrewermike posted 1 year ago.
I can't pee when I swim either. (I lost a minute in the swim as I peed before I exited the water) Can you pee while you bike and run? I lost 30+ minutes in this years IM Wisconsin. I stopped 6 times on the bike and 3 times on the run. Waited in lines for the porto potties 4 times.
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Sling posted 1 year ago.
Homebrewermike;58217 wrote:
I can't pee when I swim either. (I lost a minute in the swim as I peed before I exited the water) Can you pee while you bike and run? I lost 30+ minutes in this years IM Wisconsin. I stopped 6 times on the bike and 3 times on the run. Waited in lines for the porto potties 4 times.
Wow, that's a lot of peeing. How much fluids are you taking in? I peed once on the bike and not at all on the run.
Speed hurts; how fast do you want to go?
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kona_expat posted 1 year ago.
If you have a coach, why are you asking this question on a forum? Did your coach tell you your goal is unreasonable and you are looking for someone else to tell you it isn't?
But if you want my $.02, I'd say the swim goal is reasonable, but I would focus on biking, as your run time is pretty good. Take a look at your age group and others who do a total time of 10:45 and see how their splits shake out. That should give you an idea of how it's done.
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Sling posted 1 year ago.
kona_expat;58262 wrote:
If you have a coach, why are you asking this question on a forum?
Hey, I just wanted to get some feedback from other triathletes. I thought maybe that was what a triathlon forum was for?
Speed hurts; how fast do you want to go?
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Homebrewermike posted 1 year ago.
Sling;58246 wrote:
Wow, that's a lot of peeing. How much fluids are you taking in? I peed once on the bike and not at all on the run.
Obviously too much. I was very prepared for 90s and humid but not for 50s and rain. I drank a 20 oz bottle every hour to 1.25 hours. I probably could have gotten by on 1/3 that much. Live and learn.
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Sling posted 1 year ago.
Homebrewermike;58265 wrote:
Obviously too much. I was very prepared for 90s and humid but not for 50s and rain. I drank a 20 oz bottle every hour to 1.25 hours. I probably could have gotten by on 1/3 that much. Live and learn.
That will be one of my main challenges for next time too - I need to get the nutrition nailed down. Like I said, I took in too many goos and too much gatorade during the run and paid the price with some stomach issues late in the race. But I think I am getting close.
Speed hurts; how fast do you want to go?
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brittda posted 1 year ago.
Homebrewermike;58217 wrote:
I can't pee when I swim either. (I lost a minute in the swim as I peed before I exited the water) Can you pee while you bike and run? I lost 30+ minutes in this years IM Wisconsin. I stopped 6 times on the bike and 3 times on the run. Waited in lines for the porto potties 4 times.
I would say if you are peeing 6 times on the bike and 3 on the run , you may be taking in too much fluids. I stopped 1 time in IMC (and once in transition, plus the swim--I can pee while I swim). I thought I was under hydrated, but after talking to a few vetrans, I was probably right on. I would work on the nutrition part and be ready for heat and cold if possible. That alone will take off a bunch of time.
As for the rest, I would say it is totally reasonable :)
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Sling posted 1 year ago.
brittda;58269 wrote:
I would say if you are peeing 6 times on the bike and 3 on the run , you may be taking in too much fluids. I stopped 1 time in IMC (and once in transition, plus the swim--I can pee while I swim). I thought I was under hydrated, but after talking to a few vetrans, I was probably right on. I would work on the nutrition part and be ready for heat and cold if possible. That alone will take off a bunch of time.
As for the rest, I would say it is totally reasonable :)
Wait, that was homebrew who peed so much, not me. I peed twice in the water (due to nerves, i think), and once on the bike. But I strongly agree, getting the nutrition and fluid intake nailed down is critical -and still something I have to work on (see above). Plus, I have to learn how to pee while swimming! :rolleyes:
Speed hurts; how fast do you want to go?
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brittda posted 1 year ago.
Sling;58270 wrote:
Wait, that was homebrew who peed so much, not me. I peed twice in the water (due to nerves, i think), and once on the bike. But I strongly agree, getting the nutrition and fluid intake nailed down is critical -and still something I have to work on (see above). Plus, I have to learn how to pee while swimming! :rolleyes:
ohhh sorry,It is still early here and I am still guzzeling my coffee!
Peeing on the swim is KEY :) Then you are done for a while and can get on the bike and be off!
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mdd posted 1 year ago.
I think you can take 45 minutes off no problem if you put in the work. Your swim time of 1:25 has alot of room for improvement. I think taking 20-25 minutes off is reasonable if you get a swim coach. So right there you are almost halfway to your goal. Now you can take off another 15-20 minutes on the bike and just glide home to your goal time! I think improving your run time will be the hardest. Instead just focus on going sub-4:00 on the marathon (3:59 counts!) and then shave the time you need off the rest of your race.
Good luck and I think you can do it!
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Riverbrady posted 1 year ago.
You might also check your transition times. For many people it's easy to shave a couple minutes off here and there, which add up.
"Care more than others think is wise, risk more than others think is safe, dream more than others think is practical, expect more than others think is possible."
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beads1985 posted 1 year ago.
Riverbrady;58277 wrote:
You might also check your transition times. For many people it's easy to shave a couple minutes off here and there, which add up.
Along with the rest of the suggestions this is a great idea.
I took my sweet time in T1(8+ minutes) and T2(about 15 minutes)
(I had GI Issues, so I hit the porta potty before the run ! :D )
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kona_expat posted 1 year ago.
Sling;58264 wrote:
Hey, I just wanted to get some feedback from other triathletes. I thought maybe that was what a triathlon forum was for?
All I meant was that your coach probably has the information needed to answer your question the best--like how you trained for your first IM, how you responded to the training (assuming you tested along the way), how much leeway you have to increase the volume of training you are doing (which is usually a factor in improving IM fitness).
Many folks will improve from their 1st to 2nd IM, just because the body "understands" what it means to do it, and even if you do the exact same training the 2nd time around, your body is better able to absorb it. So you might get a free 15 minutes that way.
But I did say you already had a pretty good run, and that if it were me, I'd work more on your bike and let the run take care of itself. If you've run an open 3:30 mary and you went 4:05 in the IM, then that's only a 14% degradation by having you swim 2.4 miles and bike 112 miles before you ran, which is pretty damn good. So run training more than you did is probably not going to have that big of an effect on your overall finishing time, whereas if you get stronger on the bike, with the same run training you might to 5 min. faster without changing your run training much.
Here's the 10:45 (+ or - 1 min.) crew from IMFL 2006:
285 10:44:44 NOBILI ALDO M50-54 1:13:07 5:19:50 3:58:12
286 10:44:46 SMITH GREGORY M35-39 1:09:20 5:40:06 3:46:19
287 10:44:58 MUELLER KURT M45-49 1:05:53 5:11:14 4:19:06
288 10:45:07 MUNOZ JOHN M50-54 1:06:24 5:22:56 4:05:40
289 10:45:14 GIERKE WAYNE M45-49 1:03:19 5:27:19 4:07:47
290 10:45:23 SLIMAN JOE M50-54 1:18:49 5:35:04 3:35:01
291 10:45:51 ORMEROD KIEL M18-24 1:16:26 4:57:44 4:19:11
292 10:46:00 GROHS BOBBY M30-34 1:15:27 5:29:48 3:42:09
293 10:46:42 GINGRICH MARK M30-34 1:03:31 5:23:57 4:05:37
294 10:46:57 LARSEN MARK M40-44 58:18 5:17:34 4:20:29
The average split times are: 1:09:03 5:22:33 4:01:57
That's why I said your run was probably already pretty good.
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Sling posted 1 year ago.
kona_expat;58291 wrote:
All I meant was that your coach probably has the information needed to answer your question the best--like how you trained for your first IM, how you responded to the training (assuming you tested along the way), how much leeway you have to increase the volume of training you are doing (which is usually a factor in improving IM fitness).QUOTE]
Understood Kona - sometimes what we say gets mistranslated on a forum. My apologies.
That's very helpful information and very useful benchmarks. Looking at the times you listed, I think you are right, the bike is where I need to work on the most to make up that difference. As someone said above my swim does have a "lot of room for improvement," but I did have a horrible swim, even for me. I think if I went out there right now, I could do a 1:15, and if I keep doing drills and getting in the laps I will improve that even more.
Since you're saying I shouldn't expect too much of an improvement on the run (and I trust your judgement with your experience), maybe I SHOULD adjust my goals and perhaps shoot for breaking 11:00. That might be more realistic, and I would be fine with that. After all, sub 11:00's not too shabby.
Speed hurts; how fast do you want to go?
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simonatc posted 1 year ago.
Sling;58270 wrote:
Wait, that was homebrew who peed so much, not me. I peed twice in the water (due to nerves, i think), and once on the bike. But I strongly agree, getting the nutrition and fluid intake nailed down is critical -and still something I have to work on (see above). Plus, I have to learn how to pee while swimming! :rolleyes:
Am i the only one that thinks it's kind of gross to pee while swimming. Other people are ingesting that water during the swim. It's an hour or an hour and a half. People should be able to hold it longer than that.
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kylie posted 1 year ago.
simonatc;58303 wrote:
Am i the only one that thinks it's kind of gross to pee while swimming. Other people are ingesting that water during the swim. It's an hour or an hour and a half. People should be able to hold it longer than that.
Others might think it is kind of gross, but most people I know do it (self included). The river/ocean/whatever already isn't the cleanest and has animals living in it, and there is all the gunk on the wetsuits from all the other rivers and such already added. Plus it is a lot of water that you are in. My goal is to not ingest the water ;) Sure, I might taste it, but not swallow it. It could be something to remember next time you draft off someone though!
And I almost always end up needing to pee during even a swim workout shorter than that. Even if I go right before hand. Swimming when you have to pee just isn't very comfy. And there is the added bonus of then being able to get out of the water and on your bike, not needed to stop for (or wait in line for) a porta-potty.
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Sling posted 1 year ago.
kyillee;58314 wrote:
Others might think it is kind of gross, but most people I know do it (self included).
I think there are two types of people, people who do it and people who lie and say they don't. ;)
Speed hurts; how fast do you want to go?
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simonatc posted 1 year ago.
I hear you on trying not to ingest, but the water is in your mouth. And some very valid points about the animals in the water and the water itself not being clean, but I for one don't want to have pee from 500 other racers in my mouth. And I'm not lying about it. It's different if you choose to pee while running or on the bike. That just affects you. I just kind of have a problem with other people urinating 1 foot in front of where i'm about to swim.
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Riverbrady posted 1 year ago.
On the other hand, for a lot of the races where the swim is long enough, people will be wearing wetsuits, and there isn't much fluid transfer between those and the outside water providing they're fit correctly.
"Care more than others think is wise, risk more than others think is safe, dream more than others think is practical, expect more than others think is possible."
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beads1985 posted 1 year ago.
simonatc;58303 wrote:
Am i the only one that thinks it's kind of gross to pee while swimming. Other people are ingesting that water during the swim. It's an hour or an hour and a half. People should be able to hold it longer than that.
kyillee;58314 wrote:
Others might think it is kind of gross, but most people I know do it (self included). The river/ocean/whatever already isn't the cleanest and has animals living in it, and there is all the gunk on the wetsuits from all the other rivers and such already added. Plus it is a lot of water that you are in. My goal is to not ingest the water. Sure, I might taste it, but not swallow it. It could be something to remember next time you draft off someone though!And I almost always end up needing to pee during even a swim workout shorter than that. Even if I go right before hand. Swimming when you have to pee just isn't very comfy. And there is the added bonus of then being able to get out of the water and on your bike, not needed to stop for (or wait in line for) a porta-potty.
Sling;58317 wrote:
I think there are two types of people, people who do it and people who lie and say they don't.
You can always pee in your wetsuit before you get into the water :D
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Riverbrady posted 1 year ago.
Then there are those of us who just haven't needed to yet. :p
"Care more than others think is wise, risk more than others think is safe, dream more than others think is practical, expect more than others think is possible."
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Sling posted 1 year ago.
beads1985;58322 wrote:
You can always pee in your wetsuit before you get into the water :D
That's funny. I had to do that on the ferry at Alcatraz. I had to go really, really bad and the lines to the bathrooms were impossible. Like I said, I can't pee swimming, so I had just let loose in my wetsuit while wating to jump in the water.
Speed hurts; how fast do you want to go?
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kylie posted 1 year ago.
and you can't ignore its warming benefits when it's a really cold water day!
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Star posted 1 year ago.
First, I think its funny how this post was hijacked by urination. Second, apparently some of you aren't scuba divers....because that's like one of the first things you learn about keeping warm in cold water...pee in your wetsuit ;)
My blog: http://star.trifuel.net
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kona_expat posted 1 year ago.
Sling;58293 wrote:
kona_expat;58291 wrote:All I meant was that your coach probably has the information needed to answer your question the best--like how you trained for your first IM, how you responded to the training (assuming you tested along the way), how much leeway you have to increase the volume of training you are doing (which is usually a factor in improving IM fitness).QUOTE]
Understood Kona - sometimes what we say gets mistranslated on a forum. My apologies.
That's very helpful information and very useful benchmarks. Looking at the times you listed, I think you are right, the bike is where I need to work on the most to make up that difference. As someone said above my swim does have a "lot of room for improvement," but I did have a horrible swim, even for me. I think if I went out there right now, I could do a 1:15, and if I keep doing drills and getting in the laps I will improve that even more.
Since you're saying I shouldn't expect too much of an improvement on the run (and I trust your judgement with your experience), maybe I SHOULD adjust my goals and perhaps shoot for breaking 11:00. That might be more realistic, and I would be fine with that. After all, sub 11:00's not too shabby.
I'm still not saying whether your 10:45 goal is reasonable or not. All I am pointing out is that if you focus on your bike, your run may or may not improve, but that it's fine where it is. If you can go :15 faster on the bike or even more and NOT GET ANY SLOWER ON THE RUN, then you are going in the right direction, right?
And maybe you are right about your swim--the first IM swim can be a bitch and not representative of your true ability.
The VERY best thing you can do is to maintain your run fitness, work on your swim technique, and work to improve your bike FTP (functional threshold power; if you train by HR then your bike LTHR), meaning you can go faster on the bike with less effort. You still need to pace the bike properly, but it sounds like you did that on your first time out, so huge congrats on that! Most people go out and think it's a bike race and then they fold mightily on the run.
All you can do is modify your training and your race execution to still follow a race plan and see what you can come up with. There are so many variables in an IM--even in the same race from year to year--that to focus in on a set time can leave you disappointed.
And no you didn't pee too much--it was a cool day, right? I peed 7 times on the bike in IM Brazil. It was a cool day and it was odd for me to pee that much, too, but hey it's just water/Gatorade, right? I also pee during the swim, although I don't need to stop to do it. What I do is as I blow air out underwater, well, I also pee. Try that on dry land (without a full bladder!)--exhale forcefully, and contract your "pee" muscles. It will slow you down a bit in the water temporarily, but not as much as trying to hold it in! Then try it in the pool. Oh wait, I didn't say that, did I?
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brittda posted 1 year ago.
Star;58331 wrote:
First, I think its funny how this post was hijacked by urination. Second, apparently some of you aren't scuba divers....because that's like one of the first things you learn about keeping warm in cold water...pee in your wetsuit ;)
or get a dry suit :)
Thats what I did--you dont want to pee in THAT!!!ahahahahah
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beads1985 posted 1 year ago.
simonatc;58318 wrote:
I hear you on trying not to ingest, but the water is in your mouth. And some very valid points about the animals in the water and the water itself not being clean, but I for one don't want to have pee from 500 other racers in my mouth. And I'm not lying about it. It's different if you choose to pee while running or on the bike. That just affects you. I just kind of have a problem with other people urinating 1 foot in front of where i'm about to swim.
"A completely full bladder is capable of holding approximately 1 liter of fluid … Ordinarily the urge to urinate occurs when the bladder contains about 200 ml of urine." -
Magill's Medical Guide Volume III. Englewood Cliffs, NJ: Salem, 1998.
If everybody with an absolutely full bladder peed at the exact same time that would be 500 liters of urine in a moving body of water.
For perspective - an Offical Olympic pool contains approximately 660,000 gallons of water.
I am sure that whatever body of water you are swimming in, with 500 other athletes is significantly larger than that.
So 500 liters of urine in a few MILLION Gallons of water is not going to change the bacterial content of the water significantly enough to harm you any more than the bacterial content of the water BEFORE 500 liters of urine was introduced.
:rolleyes:
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kicker posted 1 year ago.
You people need to start at the back in you're going to pee in the water! lol
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RV posted 1 year ago.
kicker;58422 wrote:
You people need to start at the back in you're going to pee in the water! lol
Something you need to consider when drafting on the swim... hmmm did the water get warmer? :eek:
RV
It takes a long time to get good. - Scott Molina
Slow is smooth; smooth is fast. - Rich Strauss
I would like to try to take 45 minutes off of my IM Florida time of 11:31 next year, and I want to try to get some feedback on it.
I know it may sound unreasonable, but I think I can do it and here's why: I think I can take 15 minutes off each leg.
My swim time was abysmal at 1:25. I floundered, I got caught up in the wrong spot (right in the middle of the scrum), and I stopped to pee twice (I can't pee swimming, and I was nervous.) I swam a 34-minute half earlier this year, so I know that a 1:10 is certainly within reach if I keep doing drills and progressing like I have.
The bike, at 5:45 was ok for me, but I didn't go anywhere near full throttle. I kept a lot in reserve, because, this being my first Ironman, I didn't know what to expect on the run. I am pretty sure I can pull a 5:30. In fact, my coach told me that was what she expected based on previous races. I usally average close to 23 mph in Olympic distance races.
I ran a 4:03 marathon, and that will be a challenge to shave off 15 minutes, but I think I can do it. I ran consistent 3:30 stand-alone marathons several years ago, and I think I could probably better that by at least 10 minutes now. My run felt good this year, and except for some stomach issues from too much goo and stuff, I felt pretty strong.
Based on this, is it a reasonable goal to now shoot for 10:45?
Speed hurts; how fast do you want to go?