I have done several Oly distance events where they have all the men start and then all of the women start about 10 minutes later. Works very well in my opinion and everyone is better able to keep an eye on the competition.

It could be the other way around 23 year old drafting a 40 year old ! My point is that is that psychologicaly not knowing where your competition is may reduce the drafting. Most people want to start with there age group ? No or Yes ? I am not saying this is the cure but random starts does help. No system is 100% excpet for the one listed below in the future.

I wonder what would happen if there was a technology breakthrough for a chip that could attach to the bike and automatically sense if you were too close for tooooo long !

That was my point of it being tougher mentally becasue it would be totally random of who was around you. Then erase the ages from the legs.

It would be tougher mentally, I agree. But how would that lessen drafting? That to me is more a choice based on opportunity rather than age group of those around you.

Wait...this is triathlon...it's supposed to be mentally tough. You guys trying to make it easier?
I love ages on the legs...because then I know how old that kid is that I'm passing.
To be honest...I've raced all three ways...age group,mixed ag and mass start. Other than the really fast folks,I usually seem to end up half way through my ag regardless of how it goes off.

I'm not sure if I get the topic either. Drafting on the swim is going to happen no matter what. Drafting on the bike shouldn't happen, if you had a random method it could still happen as the faster people move up through the field.

I've done several races with different starting methods and I'm really now sure which one I like the best.

1. I did one race where they grouped the waves by race # and your number was based on when you signed up, so that's a total random method.

2. Another race her in MN is a self seeding event, you pick the wave you want to start in. A random method, which allows the race to have different age groupers in different heats. All the fast swimmers seem to be in heat 1, no mater what their age is.

3. The other type i've done is age grouped based but each person in the wave starts every 3-5 seconds. This takes a while to get everyone in the water.

Sometimes I do like to know where I am on the course age group wise. I did a race where it was age group based, i started 56th on the swim (we started every 3 seconds) and I came out first. One the bike I knew where I was because everyone had their age on their calf. I'm a good swimmer and biker, so to know where I am position wise before the run is always good. I was 2nd coming into the bike to run transition. Needless to say I didn't hydrate enough on the bike and burned up on the run on an extremely hot day. On one hand I like the age group method on the other hand I don't, for me it causes more anxiety and stress as the race progresses.

in fact i declare shenanigans now. there has been no mention of a red thong in this thread.

A seeding/wave start story:
In 2004 I did Tinman HIM at Tupper Lake getting ready for IMLP.
They had wave start by age and gender.My wave was near the back.
The last mile of the run I come up on this young woman,went to pass her, but she wouldn't have it. We kept pace step fpr step with increasing speed. As we neared the finish she sped up and crossed the line two steps ahead of me.
With a big smile on her face she turned and said: "Good job! You almost beat me!"
Guessing her to be in her twenties I smiled back and said: "You had a half hour head start and I caught you..sorry."

Oh..great! Declared shenannigans!....At least you didn't Declare Donnybrook!

While this subject is being discussed, I've noticed a few problems at wave start races I've done.

Why, when there are two separate races (i.e. sprint & a half) at one event do race directors find it necessary to start the entire sprint field before the half or oylimpic? This just seems to put the slowest athletes in the field right in front of the faster groups as they start the competiors from the next race.

I'm not so concerned with the time I or anyone else might loose trying to navigate around them, but rather the safety issues. Last year a the NJ Devilman I nearly drown 2 or 3 athletes in the final wave of the sprint race as the half started. These individuals were not particular strong swimmers and literally got run over by the field as they were overtaken within the first 200-400 meters.

Furthermore, anyone coming out of T1 then has to deal with passing on the bike. Staying to the left and flying past scores of riders you risk penalty. If you continue to merge right before passing you just give up way to much time. Rarely do I run into this problem, as the M25-29 start first. However, a good friend and very competive triatlete (I'm talking overall finish) has been penalized numerous times just trying to get ahead of the pack. He is 47 and always starts in the last wave or close to it. When riding through the field it's just not advantagous to keep merging to the right. He's been nailed several times with 4 minutes.

I would like to see directors put more thought into the starting wave in races where problems might arise. Where two races are involved why not start M18-29 sprint racers then half and so on down the line. This way you stand a better chance of matching athletes with similar ablilties. Not perfect. But maybe better?

I would favor some slack on the rules for those faster age groupers trying to make their way up from the back of the pack after a wave start.

I think the only way to "stop drafting" (even though I don't thinik anything wil stop anyone from doing it) is to make so punishment for it. Not physical punishment, the race is hard enough, but something like an extra loop on the bike course or something like that. Of course the marshals can't be everywhere so getting catching people isn't easy to begin with.

Look at it like this: in an IM or HIM, someone drafting is taking a risk, yes, and will likely gain 5+ minutes for doing it. If they get caught, they serve a 4min penalty and have stil gained 1 min. from drafting. In their eyes it's worth it. If the drafter can gain minutes even with a penalty, it is worth it. If they aren't going to gain enough time to cancel out the penalty then it's probably not worth it. Meaning, more marshals need to be out on the course to make the time gain/penalty cancellation less appealing.....if that made any sense.