No, I think you are correct. A marathon and Ironman are both unhealthy events. Training from them has great benefites, the actual race does not.

personal life suffers ....

[QUOTE=Red5;55848]No, I think you are correct. A marathon and Ironman are both unhealthy events. Training from them has great benefites, the actual race does not.[/QUOTE]

According to your statement, running 18 miles (a typical long run in a marathon training schedule) is "healthy", but running 26 miles is not.

Please elaborate on how you came to that conclusion.

My orthopedic surgeon has told me that most research concludes that running over 30 miles a week is the boundry. At this point, the relative fitness benefits are offset by the abuse caused by the impact associated with the training. Certainly, this is not saying that you don't get more fit with the added miles, only that the subsequent damage may outweigh those benefits.

Here again, there are always the outliers. Dean does not seem to be slowing due to the impact at age 43. But he is not the normal or the average.

I don't see the swimming and biking as much of a problem due to the lack of impact, at least the training. However, I agree with Red, when you combine the stress of the three events at any distance IM or over; not something the body was really designed to do.

i read the race report of a guy who did a double ironman, and I came to the conclusion that, while living in the midst of a large society, he was a hermit via training for an event that occurred once a year...not even much interaction with his wife or family. I think that borders on being unhealthy, insofar as it's a lifestyle choice that eliminates much of life...

another way to ask the thread's question: when does the event cease being a "race" and start just being an "endurathon"?

for me, the half iron might be my longest "race" one day, though I'd like to do an ironman just to have done it...training for the half will take a toll on my family, I'd respectfully need to get direct permission to go after an iron distance.

there is an event called Decca-iron man. Not sure where it's staged but it's 10 IM's back to back, and its all done in a pool, on a veladrome and a 400m track. it takes weeks, i think last time, of 40 competitors, only 7 made it.

now thats nuts

like i've mentioned before on a recent blog, chet 'the jet' blaton has performed a double-deca ironman which is beyond unhealthy in my opinion, it was held in mexico. he does not do thost things anymore i don't think but it is something crazy. a marathon is within limits to most and an ironman requires an extreme amount of dicipline and not a lot of peopole have such comitment...half ironman is my limit so far and i hope to have such comitment to perform a full ironman in the future...

Been trying to wrap my head around this one for a long time...
Thanks Beldrueger for starting the thread. I'm not sure there is a clear answer.
We all suffer from some obsession or another and we often hear "If I wasn't doing this I'd be drinking!" (Or some other addiction, either positive or negative) In fact many of us are refugees from one addiction or another. Others are searching for something lost.
How many of us know people whose whole life is wrapped up in a 5k time? How many of us have met folks whose whole life is Ironman? Is this unhealthy? Perhaps, if it excludes what life is really about...loving and being loved.
I have had those times of fixation and suffered for it. I ran 100 mile weeks back in the 70's just like everyone else. It sucked.
Is the line individual? Those folks who train for an IM all the time even though there isn't one on the schedule. The person who runs ultras and marathons constantly...up to 40 a year.
I was boring and hermit like in the 70's and that's what made it suck..Many extremeopliles are sort of boring and hermit like...I've met them.
My primary distance is posted as "Everything." That includes running and tri's and art and watching movies and, well, everything. And if it ain't fun, I ain't doing it.
I think anything over an Ironman or a 24 hours race is too much even though I toy with the idea of a double. Why is it too much?
Because it leads to making you a one-dimensional person and that is never good.
If it's important to you,I can't detract from that. Just a reminder that if you walk into a coffee shop with a finisher award and a few bucks...you'll still only be able to buy a cup of coffee.

[QUOTE=Stringcheese;55851]According to your statement, running 18 miles (a typical long run in a marathon training schedule) is "healthy", but running 26 miles is not.

Please elaborate on how you came to that conclusion.[/QUOTE]

I meant the training in general and the overall healthy lifestyle, not the more extereme ends of the spectrum. I wouldn't consider running 18 miles particularly healthy, either. As animals, we are not designed to run long distance, we are designed to walk long distance. We can condition ourselves to adapt to extreme task. I take the meaning of the original post to imply "healthy" as how the event immdeiatley effects the body. I would suggest that running for more than an hour or hour and a half puts the musculature and cardiovascular systems in our bodies under a short term unhealthy state of stress which often requires a period of "recovery". In fact, any physical stress which requires some form of recovery, it could be argued, is unhealthy, even if just on the short term.

A person can be healthy on 1 hour of exercise per day, I believe. Let's say 2 hours are strength/core work, and the other 5 are cardiovascular. Done. Couple that with good eating and sleeping habits and you have a pretty healthy person, and a nice physique, to boot. And plenty of leisure time for other activities. How do I know this? Been there, done that.

Certainly more than 7 hours per week is not NECESSARY for good health. Proudly stating that one trains "on average 14 hours per week" (which is true of me for the last year) and then somehow tying that to health is bogus. When people outside triathlon ask me how much I work out, I do not want to tell them anymore, because I don't want to confuse a person into thinking that the only way they can have a good physique and be all radiant and such is by working out out as much as I do!

All that being said, many endurance athletes are self-medicating. This is well-known phenomenon. We are addictive types, and many of us might be on some other drug if not for the training and racing. So if undue amounts of exercise replace other harmful activities, who is to say what is unhealthy? The other thing to consider is a person who is retired vs. not. I can see working out 2 hours a day when I'm retired and it not being as hard on my body as it is now. Why? I will recover better.

I will eventually go back to my 7 hours per week regimen. At that point, I will no longer be doing Ironman and probably not running marathons any longer, since I am competitive, and those things require more training than that. But that's OK, I will be able to look back and smile about when I was racing, be happy that I did it, but move into a different phase of my life.

If anyone wants to read about the deca stuff, go to slowtwitch.com forum and look for posts by Eileen Steil. I think she's about to start another deca. Do I think she is healthy? Not really. But she seems to love what she does.

Oh no, let's NOT get into the pyschology of what we do!!! That is a dark path and no good can come from that introspection!! :)

I guess it vary's so much from person to person. You have a guy like Dean who can run until I hurt. Then you have people that I pay raq ball with to ask to run a marathon is just out of the question. Some people's bodies can take more then others.

I'd love to get all psychological on ya... but, I'll put it as simply as my husband did when we watched the [I]Running on the Sun [/I]video about the Badwater UltraMarathon, and I quote: "That's the [I]stupidest [/I]thing I've ever seen!!! There's NO reason for anyone to do that!" Then he looked me in the eye and said..."You're not thinking of doing THAT, are you?" My brother (a doctor) agrees that those kinds of endurance events are harmful to the body (yet, he encourages me to race).

It seems to me that for the majority of us, challenge is what motivates us to push through this craziness and reach goals that we knew were somehow attainable....we don't attempt the Ironman thinking that we [I]can't [/I]make it afterall. We choose sports for motivation to push our limits, while other people find other things motivational (career, grades, praise, money, power, etc.). There are lots of theories about motivation, and we're all motivated by different things.

Anyway, I think that [I]balance [/I]is the key to success in life. Balance in exercise, relationships, spirituality, diet, sleep, career, money...keeping it all in check helps us be more balanced individuals.

...Balance in the Force :)

Balance in the force?...You are so right.
Only problem is that too many think they are the "Chosen One"
Crossing the line is all about the psychology.

[QUOTE=Anton;55876]Balance in the force?...You are so right.
Only problem is that too many think they are the "Chosen One"
Crossing the line is all about the psychology.[/QUOTE]

LOL! :D The Dark Side is strong, quicker, more seductive.

And don't we all love sedective!

My running club has Tech shirts...in black...for this years JFK 50 miler...on the back it reads: "Welcome to the dark side!"

You all have made some very good points.

Healthy, in my book, is whatever enables you to be free - free to move your body, free of illness, free of addiction, free of worrying about what people think of you, free of self-absorption, etc.

You can't completely separate the mental from the physical aspects, and, like someone else said, "healthy" is not exactly the same for everyone.

I agree that this is a sliding scale. It will vary from person to person, and even from year to year for the same person. Star has it--balance is everything. We're incredibly lucky/blessed/whatever to be able to devote time to a relatively healthy pusuit. We all just need to pay attention and make sure that the benefits outweigh the harms, both in terms of our own health and psyche and the lives of those around us.

[QUOTE=Red5;55861]I take the meaning of the original post to imply "healthy" as how the event immdeiatley effects the body. I would suggest that running for more than an hour or hour and a half puts the musculature and cardiovascular systems in our bodies under a short term unhealthy state of stress which often requires a period of "recovery". [B]In fact, any physical stress which requires some form of recovery, it could be argued, is unhealthy, even if just on the short term[/B].[/QUOTE

Red,
At one time in my life, I couldn't run more than a minute and a half without putting my cardiovascular and musculature systems in an unhealthy state.
Your post assumes some level of fitness. "running for more than an hour or hour and a half " How does one get to that level without becoming, as you state it, unhealthy.

I love your signature line, btw.

My dad had the best answer to this a couple of weeks ago. We were driving to the swim-practice for the 70.3 and he basically told me that I'm addicted to this sport :rolleyes: I said I'd rather be addicted to sports than most other things out there. So we had this conversation about when it becomes too much (btw: he's not an athlete, unless flipping channels is a sport!).

He said it pretty clearly: If you enjoy what you're doing, then its good. If you get to the point that it hurts to train, or you start to despise it, then its time to stop. Nicely put, I thought.

[QUOTE=Stringcheese;56005][QUOTE=Red5;55861]I take the meaning of the original post to imply "healthy" as how the event immdeiatley effects the body. I would suggest that running for more than an hour or hour and a half puts the musculature and cardiovascular systems in our bodies under a short term unhealthy state of stress which often requires a period of "recovery". [B]In fact, any physical stress which requires some form of recovery, it could be argued, is unhealthy, even if just on the short term[/B].[/QUOTE

Red,
At one time in my life, I couldn't run more than a minute and a half without putting my cardiovascular and musculature systems in an unhealthy state.
Your post assumes some level of fitness. "running for more than an hour or hour and a half " How does one get to that level without becoming, as you state it, unhealthy.

I love your signature line, btw.[/QUOTE]

Yes, I do assume a certain level of fitness, but I would also contend that even a non-trained person going out and doing excercise of less than an hour may feel like crap, but are unlikely casuing themselves any long lasting damage. Any and all beginner training programs should be sufficient to build fitness in a positive and healthy manner.

Unhealthy is such a subjective term. I have been told by folks with a mouthful of french fries how unhealthy what I do is.

Let's face the truth about ourselves we are different. That difference is what brings us to this forum. Many of us have been deep places with ourselves that the vast majority people will never go and will never understand. Unhealthy? We are all on the road to unhealthy and death or worse; a nursing home or disability. We can't save this health. We can only use it up, pouring ourselves out in pursuit of our passion.
marvin

That's an awesome concept, 'saving health'. What are people waiting for? Ya just have to get up and move! Our bodies are genetically predisposed toward movement. There's nothing natural about sitting and clicking through life, unless you're a monk and sitting is your thing... :)

The term healthy is a HUGE sliding scale of subjectivity. Quantified, you might term healthy exercise as 3 - 5 times a week for 30-60 minutes at 60-90% of your max heart rate. Qualitatively, healthy is really "what set's your mind free" as someone else has pointed out.

The need to set and meet goals are often the driving force behind much of the 'crazy' events people do. To do something they thought impossible, to do something because someone said they couldn't, and to do something that would make them proud of who they are.

If I'm doing an event that is longer or more arduous than usual (that 3-day expedition race in Moab, UT comes to mind), I remind myself that I have all the time in the world to recover after the event. There's nothing that says I have to be training that next week. That's what recovery is for. Enjoy it. Do something really hard. Recover. Reminisce on the experience. Come back stronger. Repeat.

It's awesome.

Nice TDB...good philosophy.
Just now recovering from a 50 miler(run) about one and a half weeks ago...doing what I want...no schedule...having fun. Life doesn't have to be about schedules all the time. That's coming again soon but right now....just floating.
What is extreme anyway? Is one persons 10 miler another persons Marathon du Sable?