Yup, 404s are a nice setup. I would say your right, I don't know if 19 mph. is the "magical" number, but certainly the faster you go the bigger the benefit. You should also see a nice weight savings.

I also think it is nice to have a race set and training set. No reason to waste endless miles on a top of the line set of Zipps or something of that nature.

good advice glbrum. A buddy of mine bought a pair of HED 3's while I went with the Zipp 404 clincher, and I'm now selling the clincher. The wheels are great, but to me, they aren't worth the extra $500, so I'm going to put them on ebay with only 3 races (2 half IMs and 1 full IM) and go with a used pair of Hed Alps tubulars because they are cheaper.

I ride on HED-3's. I have the clincher, but the HED-3c is tubular and a smidge lighter. The HEDs are very durable. I race and train on them. Have had them for 2 years with no issues whatsoever. I like being able to use the wheels rather than have them look pretty in the basement and only run on race day. Using them in training I get to experience all the wind, weather conditions and road conditions and therefore I am confident in how they respond.

Look, at some point the added engineering, technology, and the benefits that result from it have to add to the bottom line. Other wheel manufactures have reached a certain threshold with their efforts, Zipp has surpassed that (good examples above), so you pay for it. It's that way for most technology leaders manufacturing bike components, i.e. Zipp, Lightweight, and Zero Gravity to name a few.

I'd be much quicker to point out and critize a company like Campagnolo, slow to revise or improve product lines, yet prices are still high. In most cases, more than the few hundred bucks. Take their Ghibli Disc or Record crank and BB set-up. The disc cost $2500 alone ($1495 for a Zipp), and weights in at 103 grams more than a Zipp 900 disc (995 v. 892). You still can't get out-board bearings with the Record groupo (2006). I've got outboard bearings on my cross-bike with a FSA Gossamer crankset. And finally, if your not quite convinced to run out and suck up all Campy's high tech. wizzardy, there's the Bora wheelset, similar to the 404 only $2,800 per set and again another hunderd grams or so heavier. Great DEALS!!!

I'll pay for the added efforts and maybe marginal benefits that come with them, I've worked hard enough training I'll take what I can get. Utimately, each person has to decide whether the extra $$ is worth it. But Crappy, they need to stop resting on their REP. and catch up. Hey, as long as people buy it!

Triguy,

I agree to a certain extent. There is marginal aerodynamic benefits, but it is there. Second, Zipp wheelsets are among the lightest whethter mid-V, deep-V, or disc. Now, I know this is marginal too, but in a sport where people are known to pay by the gram it seems logical to charge a premium.

I've owned two seperate sets of Zipps and could not be happier. In fact, I just did a new build and went with Zipp again. I'm comfortable with quality and performance of the product. In most cases, not all, you get what you pay for. If they are not doing me any good in comparison to a less expensive setup, at I least I think they are, sometimes that what really matters! HA!