Landis will be minus 2 members...so that is a disadvantage.

Go Hincapie!!!

Wow....
The article didn't seem to say - if these are recent events or from years back...
With the testing - why do they think they won't get caught?
Sad that these guys feel such pressure to have to resort to these methods. :(

Was always pulling for Hincapie. The odds are improved now.

Crap! Mancebo is out too. Just hope that Landis and Hincapie have a chance now.

HOLY SMOKES!!

This is Black Friday!

This sucks. Big time. And this was just a Spanish investigation that nailed primarily Spanish riders. I wonder what would happen if a similar investigation was conducted here, Germany, Australia, and the UK. Sad day indeed.

You guys are late!
The early risers were on this before 2am PST
[url]http://www.trifuel.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5992[/url]

I was in bed at 10 pm EST last night, got up and got on my bike without checking the news this morning. Sorry!

That's sad indeed! Go Hincapie!

This really sucks...Oh well the American's and DISCO really have a good shot now. CSC lost Basso but the rest of that team is pretty strong. Vino is still in (for now) but almost all the rest of his team is out, so he will have to ride with the "B" team. Might work for him though as he is used to attacking on his own. There's alway the World Cup to watch and maybe the Pro Bowlers Tour.:eek:
-T

I just read that they are NOT letting any of the teams add substitutes for those riders that have been suspended. So what does Vino do..?..ride alone..?...hook up with his old T-Mobile team...since Ullrich is gone and he thought he should have been the GC Captain anyway.:D
- T

[QUOTE=TBRAVO]There's alway the World Cup to watch and maybe the Pro Bowlers Tour
-T[/QUOTE]

LAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAME,
man this totally sucks, the Tour was without Lance, that was "okay".. it would be fun to see who'd STEP UP and win TdF. But now I wonder who'll show up..AT ALL.

TBRAVO, World Cup Soccer and Pro Bowlers tour, man Holland is Soccer-crazy and I hate soccer. But PRO-BOWLING..:confused: ON TV? Thats even worse then DARTS on TV!

Noel.

WHAT!!!!:eek: :mad:

I was going for Basso for this tour.

Weird thing is the tour's site still has them in the rider's list. Let's see.

What a lame tour this one is going to be.

Whoever wins this one will not have the same recognition. At least not from me.

I think it's going to be a great tour!
There are many,many riders with the chops to wear yellow.
Millar is back and I heard Beloki too. Boonen?
Sure, alot of familar names are gone (yes I'm a Basso fan too)
but maybe it is a big chance for the young guys.
Lets wait till the end in Paris to say if the TDF was lame.

Hey, as far as I can see, the favs to win are out, so it will be VERY interesting to see who pulls ahead now!! It will definitely will NOT be Lame

[QUOTE=Anton]
Millar is back and I heard Beloki too. Boonen?
[/QUOTE]

Beloki is actually one of the "Black List" guys. From Velo News:

The following riders were named in the ongoing Operación Puerto doping case by Spanish investigators on Thursday

Astaná-Würth

* Michele Scarponi (I)
* Marcos Antonio Serrano (Sp)
* David Etxebarria (Sp)
* Joseba Beloki (Sp)
* Angel Vicioso (Sp)
* Isidro Nozal (Sp)
* Unai Osa (Sp)
* Jaksche Joorg (G)
* Giampaolo Caruso (I)

CSC

* Ivan Basso (I)

Caisse D'Epargne-Iles Baleares

* Constantino Zaballa (Sp)

Saunier Duval

* Carlos Zarate (Sp)

Ag2r

* Francisco Mancebo (Sp)

T-Mobile

* Jan Ullrich (G)
* Oscar Sevilla (Sp)

Phonak

* Jose Enrique Gutierrez (Sp)
* Jose Ignacio Gutierrez (Sp)

Communidad de Valencia

* Vicente Ballester (Sp)
* David Bernabeu (Sp)
* David Rodriguez (Sp)
* Jose Adrian Bonilla (Sp)
* Juan Gomis Lopez (Sp)
* Eladio Jimenez Sanchez (Sp)
* David Latasa (Sp)
* Ruben Plaza (Sp)
* Jose Luis Martinez (Sp)
* Manuel Llorent (Sp)
* Antonio Olmo (Sp)
* David Munoz (Sp)
* Javier Cherro (Sp)
* Javier Pascual (Sp)former rider and now an official

Unibet.com

* Carlos Garcia Quesada (Sp)

Riders retired or suspended for doping

* Roberto Heras (Sp)
* Angel Casero (Sp)
* Santiago Perez (Sp)
* Tyler Hamilton (USA)
* Igor Gonzalez Galdeano (Sp)

DOPERS !!!!!

There was a quote I think from one of the rides after the GIRO that said IVAN was riding like an extraterestrial ...

With so many of the top guys implicated, you have to wonder if any of the contenders are clean!! I bet a similar investigation here would bust alot of americans too. I am so disgusted I am almost to the point of saying 'let them all dope and race it out!'

John

Ya, this totally sucks. It's just going to be a repeat of tour of california...

According to the latest, Beloki is out and Aston Wurth loses 5 riders. So, since they can't replace riders. Vinny may not even be able to start the race (you must have 6 riders to compete).

So with Lance retired and all these guys out, the leaders from last year are no where to be seen. It'll be maybe Landis, Savoldelli, Garzelli, Klöden??? Hopefully Hincapie but that'll be tough I think.

[QUOTE=tribro]Ya, this totally sucks. It's just going to be a repeat of tour of california...

According to the latest, Beloki is out and Aston Wurth loses 5 riders. So, since they can't replace riders. Vinny may not even be able to start the race (you must have 6 riders to compete).

So with Lance retired and all these guys out, the leaders from last year are no where to be seen. It'll be maybe Landis, Savoldelli, Garzelli, Klöden??? Hopefully Hincapie but that'll be tough I think.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, I don't see how Vino can race now.

Concur on all of the above but would add one more to the mix: Alejandro Valverde. He's starting to come into his own.

The tour will actually be a LOT more exciting ... No one will know what is going on ! it will be lots of chaos. no one will know who to chase and who to let go ...

it may be very exciting !

Update. Tribro is indeed correct on Vino:

Tour de France News Flash for June 30, 2006

Edited by Jeff Jones Astana-Würth leaves the Tour

Dutch television's sports anchorman Mart Smeets has just reported that the Astana-Würth team has left the Tour de France. The team had five of its Tour riders officially named in the Operacion Puerto affair (Sergio Paulinho, Isidro Nozal, Allan Davis, Alberto Contador, Joseba Beloki), as well as several others (Michele Scarponi, Marcos Serrano, David Etxebarria, Angel Vicioso, Unai Osa, Jörg Jaksche), and of course ex-team manager Manolo Saiz. The team therefore wouldn't have had enough riders to start.

In an official statement, Active Bay, the team's management company, confirmed the news. "In view of the content of the dossier sent to Spanish authorities, Active Bay has decided, in accordance with the Ethical Code signed between the UCI ProTour's teams, to withdraw from the Tour de France those riders that appear in the above-mentioned dossier.

"This decision is adopted without prejudice of the respect to the right to the presumption of innocence of these riders and of that Active Bay will exercise the actions for the defence of its rights and those of its workers. This measure does not concern the team's riders of the Tour de France that are not included in the dossier: Alexander Vinokourov, Andrey Kashechkin, Carlos Barredo and Luis León Sanchez. Nevertheless, the withdrawal of the riders that appear in the above-mentioned dossier implies that the Tour of France team will not have the minimum number of riders demanded by the UCI rules, which means the team will not be able to take the start tomorrow morning in the Tour de France."

The organisers of the Tour, ASO, were already determined to refuse to allow Astana-Würth to start, despite a ruling from the Court of Arbitration for Sport that said it could.

Lat years top 10:
1. Lance Armstrong (USA), Discovery Channel
2. Ivan Basso (I), CSC, 04:40
3. Jan Ullrich (G), T-Mobile, 06:21
4. Francisco Mancebo (Sp), Illes Balears, 09:59
5. Alexandre Vinokourov (Kaz), T-Mobile, 11:01
6. Levi Leipheimer (USA), Gerolsteiner, 11:21
7. Mickael Rasmussen (Dk), Rabobank, 11:33
8. Cadel Evans (Aus), Davitamon-Lotto, 11:55
9. Floyd Landis (USA), Phonak, 12:44
10. Oscar Pereiro Sio (Sp), Phonak, 16:04

Top 5 gone for this year's race. Going to be interesting but really bad for cycling. Very unfortunate for Vino who's not even on the list, bad luck in moving to the wrong team.

not to mention the money a lot of these cyclist could end up losing ... i am sure not all are guilty but I just think it is sweet that LANCE was always found innocent and I am sure he was. I doubt these people were clean last year and he beat them. Maybe it was that much tougher for him since many were under the drugs.

The TdF has been around since 1903, so in the long run this scandal will pass as well.
Heck, the early riders were accused of using ether to deaden the pain and in turn ride better. In the 60’s a rider died on a climb from using amphetamines and of course the 1998 Tour of Shame (when EPO came into its’ own).
It will still be exciting to see who wins...just not as entertaining without the big-guns.
I thought it was cool that the T-Mobile Team was going to pull-out to show solidarity to their captain, but Jan urged them to go on and race with a vengeance.
Time for a ride…now where did I put that ether?:D

The way this was handled by Spanish investigators, UCI and Tour organization is a scandal in its own:
- the Spanish leaking information to newspapers
- Tour org. excluding a team based only on a newspaper article and letting others in.
- the press had 58 names on their list, only 9 riders got suspended today. Who made the selection?
- Tour org. changing minds every day (CAS decision there is not enough evidence against Astana-Wuerth, today Tour org. suspended 5 of their riders)
- UCI still not having bullet-proof year-round testing in place.

I am done with this year's Tour de France. I'm only one spectator more they can't claim advertising money for. But I can't support this organization.

IF the doping allagations are true:
How long have they been doping?
Who knew?
Maybe Lance retired early for a reason? (no bomb threats please.)
And a bizillion other questions...
I think it will be great fun to watch...(if only I had cable)

i hate to say it, but the doping is probably far more endemic than anyone wants to admit...and probably a lot more popular figures will be found out...

Somewhere Lance is laughing his ass off. Fingers where pointed since 1999, now he retired and the poo REALY hits the fan.

Seriously, this is just awful, but how can you tell who used what? Since the start of the TdF there's been cheating, it will always be about cutting corners and gambling trying to not get caught.
Even in national championships or regional cycling championships there are people that are on EPO, so on international level the scale is huge.

Noel.
Sorry guys didn't want to flame anyone

Remember "Breaking Away"' that great biking movie that isn't about biking? After Dave gets wacked by the Team Cinzano squad?
This quote isn't exact but it goes something like:
"Everybody cheats. I just didn't know that."

Still looking forward to a great tour....
I counted this morning..there are at least twenty guys still in the tour who have carried the Yellow Jersey on their backs or won one or more stages in the past...
Still the TDF...just not what we expected and that can be good.

I quit watching or caring about pro cycling when Tyler Hamilton got caught. I loved watching him win a stage when he was with CSC and had a broken collar bone. To me that was an amazing feat and I held him on a pedestal, higher than Lance, in my own mind. Then 2-3 years later he gets busted and I lost all faith in pro-cycling. They are nothing but liars, cheaters, and thieves to themselves, their fans, and their sponsors.

Anton, the Breaking Away quote, more than fits into this situation for me.

Look at the top 5 from last year again....
NOW how amazing is it that Lance did what he DID...

11:01 would have separated first place from second...

He's 84th in the GC...1:07 back. Riding for Rabobanc.