bad runs after the bike
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Tri Hard posted 2 years ago.
Two things come to mind for me: raceday hydration/food or pacing during your bike. Are you drinking (around 20-24 oz's of water)? And having some gel/gu while racing? I've found it's so easy to pace incorrectly (too fast or inconsistently) while cycling, especially going up hills. If you're using a HR monitor, does your HR stay the same throughout the bike part of your race. Really pushing those hills, even just for a short time can come back to bite you in the . . .
If you're doing any of these triathlons we should meet up:
8/26 Lake Norman
9/17 Hartsville Sprint
10/1 South Carolina Half
10/7 Pinehurst
10/21 NCTS Championship (if I'm eligible)
.jpg "rjkowski's picture")
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rjkowski posted 2 years ago.
Are your legs feeling drained or are you just feeling drained in general? If it is just a general feeling of being tired, I would agree with Tri Hard's suggestion about nutrition and pacing.
Also, what kind of bike are you riding, a road bike or tri bike? It might have something to do with your bike fit.
I like to run after every bike ride. All it takes is 10-20 minutes of easy running after a bike ride, and your legs will get used to making the transition from the run to the bike.
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Anton posted 2 years ago.
Nutrition? Maybe. Pacing?..for sure....you often pass people on the run who spanked you on the bike...I do.
The best piece of advice I got 8 years ago was to run off the bike in training. I'm not talking bricks. Alot of triathletes do transition runs and think it's a brick. It's not.
At the end of most of your rides,get off the bike and run. Not fast. Not race pace. 10 to 40 minutes. don't go over 40. Just move around at a comfortable pace.
Vary what brick workouts you do. Ride long,run short. Ride short,run long.
Make T runs a common part of your training and your race day running will improve.
"What would life be if we had no courage to attempt anything?" - Vincent Van Gogh
My Blog: http://agingsuperhero.blogspot.com
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thebiochem1000 posted 2 years ago.
Thanks for the suggestions.
It's not a nutrition thing I would gather. I make sure to stay hydrated and I keep a couple of packets of Gu on me at all times.
Pacing may then be the main culprit, especially at my last race. There were definitely some long hills west of Charlotte and just inside South Carolina. I guess attacking on those hills was probably a bad idea in retrospect.
Tri Hard: The only one of those races I will be doing is the NCTS championship should I qualify, otherwise the rest of my races will be up here around Raleigh or in Virginia.
3354
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1412 days
RV posted 2 years ago.
Another thing to look at is your cadence on the bike. It is a difficult transition from the bike to the run if your bike cadence is low (i.e 80). I used to be a grinder on the bike (80 - 85) then especially on hills would crank in the 60's. I have since gone to a higher cadence - around 95. Made a world of difference for the run. However, it takes quite some time to change your cadence.
And definitely agree with doing transition runs off the bike.
RV
It takes a long time to get good. - Scott Molina
Slow is smooth; smooth is fast. - Rich Strauss
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driggins posted 2 years ago.
i'm surprised nobody has mentioned rest...have you been taking adequate time off?...at least 1 rest day/week...sounds to me like that combined with better pacing will probably turbocharge your legs...try it...what do you have to loose?
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KirkLarkin posted 2 years ago.
RV wrote:
Another thing to look at is your cadence on the bike. It is a difficult transition from the bike to the run if your bike cadence is low (i.e 80). I used to be a grinder on the bike (80 - 85) then especially on hills would crank in the 60's. I have since gone to a higher cadence - around 95. Made a world of difference for the run. However, it takes quite some time to change your cadence.
And definitely agree with doing transition runs off the bike.
Cadence is really important. Chirunning keeps me at a 90 cadence for the runs and I mimick that on the bike with 90 also. It also helps not using your legs that much when you run.
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Star posted 2 years ago.
RV...you say you have a cadence of above 90...on the flats AND the hills?
Kirk...please talk more about chi running...
"I'm more fun than an iPod!"
My blog: http://star.trifuel.net
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kylie posted 2 years ago.
Anton -- can you clarify for me what difference you mean by a transition run vs a brick run?
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KirkLarkin posted 2 years ago.
Star wrote:
RV...you say you have a cadence of above 90...on the flats AND the hills?Kirk...please talk more about chi running...
Hello. It's 90 always...uphill downhill. ChiRunning.com I am only a student, but Danny Dreyer is the creater and teacher. Here is an FAQ quote.
Is ChiRunning® good for Triathletes?
Triathletes love ChiRunning® because when they get off their bike their legs can take a rest with ChiRunning®. In ChiRunning® you can rest and relax your legs while gravity does the work of pulling you forward.
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1726 days
beads1985 posted 2 years ago.
Bricks are key.
I do a run after every bike ride.
Have you been tapering properly?
That week before your race should be pretty easy.
You want to get good rest that last week.
Nothing to it, but to do it
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1431 days
Scout posted 2 years ago.
Hi!
This is a great thread. I hope you don't mind if I pose a related question. I have a distance runner background (several marathons, etc.) I crossed over to the triathlon last year competing up to the Oly distance with good results. Two wks ago I competed in my first 70.3 (Eagleman). Many of you know that this is a flat (but windy!) course. For the first time ever, my legs started to shut down after mile 7 of the run. NO cramping...My quads simply stopped responding. I made it to the finish line close to my goal time, but I actually fell down onto one knee as I entered the shoot. My thoughts: I live in northeast PA where riding and/or running flat is almost impossible without driving far.
I most likely needed additional nutrition (I did the race on Gatorade Endurance and Gu's). Aerobically I was right there. I wasn't tired, my legs just shut down.
Please share your ideas with me. I have another Half IM in September and this has me concerned (By the way, I competed in a duathlon the very next wkend and was fine). Thanks for any input!
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thebiochem1000 posted 2 years ago.
kyillee wrote:
Anton -- can you clarify for me what difference you mean by a transition run vs a brick run?
yeah, i was actually wondering that myself.
personally i'm not into those gimmicky Chi and Pose things. i will stick with the classic methods.
tapering yeah, always a good idea. although i don't taper for most sprints as they are usually incorporated into that week as a high intensity workout.
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Jcody posted 2 years ago.
My guess is you are simply going too hard on the bike - many people do this and it is a fine line to get right at the Olympic and Half Iron levels - Sprints are easy as far as pacing - FLat out and Ironman everyone knows that you will be walking if you go too hard on the bike. However with Half and Olympic it is not always so easy to tell AND you have to make sure not givee up Too much on the bike. One way is make sure NOT to hammer hills - but stay steady NEAR threshold instead. Another way to help out is look at where you are in the field per sport in your age group. If you are say top 10 or better in the bike but closer to top 20 on the run you clearly are hitting the bike too hard. good luck!
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christri25 posted 2 years ago.
it may be that beer that you are brewing. what are in those water bottles ? :)
Chris
``It's not as if I'm going to sit around and be a fat slob,''
Lance Armstrong 2005
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thebiochem1000 posted 2 years ago.
hehe, the water bottles definitely have gatorade, the home brew if for after the race!
I have played around with some different strategies at my last couple of races and found that I am too aggressive on the hills. Paying more attention to how I'm going up the hills has definitely helped.
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christri25 posted 2 years ago.
if you mash those pedals you will suffer big time. fly up the hills like a falcon. i love windy races .... people appear to hit a wall. its just like them hills. just relax , spin up the RPM and go. Yeah, it still hurts but don't stress out the body for a 3 minute effort... ya know what i mean , and if you are under 30 and serious lay off the beer !
Chris
``It's not as if I'm going to sit around and be a fat slob,''
Lance Armstrong 2005
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thebiochem1000 posted 2 years ago.
christri25, did you by any chance do Over the Mountain? The part of that race that crosses into SC and goes through King's Mountain National Militray Park is where I decided to really attack the hills and probably what really did me in.
I've certainly wised up since that experience. No reason to try and gain 30-45 seconds on the bike it it's gonna cost me 5 minutes in the run!
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christri25 posted 2 years ago.
i missed over the mountain but i am to try next year. i ride the greenville water shed when i can.. i am also planning on doing mitchell in the next 2 weeks or so.
Chris
``It's not as if I'm going to sit around and be a fat slob,''
Lance Armstrong 2005
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kona_expat posted 2 years ago.
A couple of things:
- dead legs on the run or stomach shutdown on the run or cramps on the run usually means you biked too fast in order to run properly. Different tri lengths (as already said) require different bike pacing in order to run effectively.
- once you are 6-8 weeks out from a race or "in" race season, you should be doing a brick run once a week. I typically do a :30 brick run after a really hard 1:30 ride and also do a "transition run" (where if it takes me >5 min. to get to running, no worries) after my long ride of :30-:40.
How do you know how to pace your bikie? Easiest way is if you train/test with a power meter. Another method is to go by HR. A sprint will be at >=95% of FT (functional threshold), where FT is either the normalized watts or HR for when you are riding at a pace that you could hold for an hour. How do you know what the watts/HR number is? You test periodically in training. Ideally, you do a 1-hour time trial, but these are pretty stressful and you may have trouble finding a good course to do it on, but you can do various types of intervals where you go all out, go easy for a bit, then repeat, and you will get a "good enough" measure.
An Oly will be at about 90-95% of this value, a HIM will be at 80-88% of this value (depending on your overall fitness), and an IM will be at about 72-78% of this value.
The worst measure to use for bike pacing is speed. Speed is too variable depending on weather and terrain. Yet many folks continue to say "I want to average x MPH on the bike" as their pacing strategy, and then their run is whatever they are able to manage after that. But egos are tough to deal with.
The only way to know how fast you SHOULD ride the bike in a race is by periodic testing and also by doing race simulation workouts (bricks) where a significant portion of the ride is at your target race pace.
So in my last two races I have had great bike legs but then fall apart on the run. It's not that my legs don't want to move, but I feel really drained and am unable to really get into the run, I am usually a pretty strong runner and my training runs have gone well. I do bricks occasionally, maybe once every other week, but should I be doing more?
I will take any suggestions. Thanks in advance.