massive sweat loss
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bluebirdbiker posted 2 years ago.
Wow dude, you ARE one tough cookie. 38hrs. and physical workouts? Wow. Good luck with the help.
BBB
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trainDaBrain posted 2 years ago.
ha, thanks, Kylie was there too and one of her teammates also had it happen to him. i thought it was a little strange to be sweating so much, so I thought I'd try and find out what's going on. so far, googling is turning up zilch, and talking with the track coach last nite and calling up mom (whose done kona 2x and is an ER nurse) turned up nothing. seems as if this isn't a common thing ( how often are people doing the kind of things that would produce the effect?)
just seems odd is all.
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kylie posted 2 years ago.
TdB -- one of "my" boys had the same thing happen? Which one? I didn't hear about it (yet). Maybe it is even a bit of a bug going around?
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thehitman posted 2 years ago.
trainDaBrain wrote:
quick question to you ER types who field ironman med tents - ever have someone come off of a race to lay down, and just have the sweat pour out the body? ... a buddy thinks it's electrolyte imbalance... any thoughts? i was taking e-caps, and downing gatorade, but perhaps not enough...
Maybe the imbalance was in the other direction --- too much sodium (and perhaps too much fluids). My body doesn't tolerate sodium well, and I do just fine on minimal intake of sodium. And when I'm careless and eat too much sodium-rich food (how many thousands of mgs of sodium were in that pizza I ate during the Superbowl?), the quantity of sweat during subsequent work-outs is quite noticeable.
thehitman
“Always do right. This will gratify some people and astonish the rest.” Mark Twain
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trainDaBrain posted 2 years ago.
kyillee wrote:
TdB -- one of "my" boys had the same thing happen? Which one? I didn't hear about it (yet). Maybe it is even a bit of a bug going around?
Yeah, after I posted the report to arreports, Ross said he had the same thing happen.
Randy thought it could be a bug, based on the sign near one of the kayak CP's which said there was a bacteria in the water which made it unsafe for swimming. I didn't go in the water, but it is a possibility.
I am now obsessed with find the answer to this. It's very possible I had too much sodium (thanks hitman) . Unfortunately we can't go back in time and analyze the salinity of my blood stream... So I can only go off of recollections of similar type of experiences (which I have only one, and am just hoping that there are others who have experienced it)
-brandon
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rob6118 posted 2 years ago.
This can be caused by a lot of different things. I have had it caused by two things already mentioned and a third. I've had it caused by what I think was food poisoning. I also had it caused by an electrolyte imbalance when I did search and rescue training with the Air Force. Week solid of living in the field and hiking 20-50 miles a day in full uniform and gear (60-80 lb packs) in 90-105 degree heat. I saw it happen to a lot of guys and had it happen to myself. It seemed to be a lack of salt (not to much of it) and we solved it by mixing salt into everything we ate and drank. The next step after this is when you don't sweat at all because your body is out of fluids. That is very concerning and is just prior to full on heat stroke so if you are getting to this point you should be very careful.
The other thing I had cause this was being in high altitudes. First time since I was 5 I took a trip to Boulder, CO and was once again in full uniform inside an un a/c'd barracks getting an inspection. (The dress uniform of full whites for NROTC). I damn near passed out, and upon graduating that segment of training I was present a swim cap by my DI in honor of my exceptional sweating abilities lol.
I've never seen someone have too much salt. I know its possible, I've just never seen it and I've done a lot of that 38hours of phyical effort w/ the military. The common problem seems to be too little salt, it can be truly shocking how much you need sometimes. Salt on crackers, salt in the cocoa mix in the MRE's, salt everything.
I wonder if hitman's comment is more in relationship to the type of food he ate and thereby the type of nutrition he had for his workout. A while ago I posed the question of why fast food is so bad. I found it as a young guy a cheap easy way to get lots of calories.
I have subsequently changed my ways and I use weight gainer shakes extensively to load up on calories. The other day though I had a Wendy's value meal an hour before my workout (first fast food in a few months) and during my half mile swim and 2 hour bike ride it made a HUGE difference in my level of exertion. My heart rate got higher faster, and my muscles gave out a lot sooner. So I wonder if the increased sweat is just from eating crap food so your body had to work a lot harder.
So bottom line is increase salt intake, def. increase water intake, and if you stop sweating, park your butt in front of a fan and stop working out immediately.
Rob
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trainDaBrain posted 2 years ago.
thanks Rob, the event was at low elevation, the highest we climbed was just below 2000 feet, but we were moving between sea level and that elevation throughout the nite.
heat wasn't necessarily a factor, although the cold may have played a role. we were getting pretty cold around 4 in the morning on the fast mountain descents, bone-chilling cold with the mist coming off of the ocean.
I ate a lot of chocolate and whatever high calorie stuff I could swallow (couple ensures) and a lot of other relatively healthy foods. But I think I should have watched the salt better.
All roads seem to be pointing to better salt management.
Thanks again
-Brandon
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thehitman posted 2 years ago.
rob6118 wrote:
...I've never seen someone have too much salt.
I wonder if hitman's comment is more in relationship to the type of food he ate and thereby the type of nutrition he had for his workout. A while ago I posed the question of why fast food is so bad. I found it as a young guy a cheap easy way to get lots of calories.
So bottom line is increase salt intake, def. increase water intake, and if you stop sweating, park your butt in front of a fan and stop working out immediately.
Rob
Sorry Rob, I disagree.
The need for sodium supplementation appears to be wildly overblown. Some of the trifuelers are receiving a new electrolyte supplement, Lyte'n Go (I received mine today - undamaged). Interestingly, this product contains almost no sodium (5mg). Their website states:
In addition, there's always been a lot of talk about supplementing salt to one's intake during exercise or races, especially during long, hot efforts. The truth is that the human body needs very minute amounts of sodium to function normally. We need only 250 mg of sodium each day, athletes maybe 500 mg., which is easily supplied by natural, unprocessed foods. However, the average American consumes approximately 6000 to 7000 mg per day. The average athlete stores at least 8,000 mg of dietary sodium in tissues.
http://www.lytengo.com/electrolyte_replacement.php
Glad to hear you've kicked the junk food habit, though. :)
thehitman
“Always do right. This will gratify some people and astonish the rest.” Mark Twain
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dr_rios_ec posted 2 years ago.
Well...I think there is a little discrepancy here...
Physiologically...sodium..athlete or not...retains water cause its osmolarity....
Why we prescribe to our patients with High Blood Preassure very little or no salt with their foods??? The reason...very simple, cause´ we don´t want them to retain any more liquid than necesary, that will cause a rise in the volumen in the intravascular compartment, with a resultant of higher blood preassure and as an extra added bonus---->edema! Not too good!
Now...If you give an athlete a high concentration of sodium (salt) you are actually going to cause a lesser producction and elimination of sweat...that could be terrible...why???
Well, you won´t need to much fluid intake maybe..but your temperature control will end up totaly messed up, badly------->that is the key!
That is why this new product, and some other sports drinks are trying to lower the sodium intake to replenish liquid, but keeping the body´s homeostasis intact
Bottom line.....sodium retains water...
-Santiago
"Man!! Defeat is worse than dying, cause´you have to live with it" -My Dad
"It ain´t about how hard you can hit...it is how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward"-Rocky Balboa
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dr_rios_ec posted 2 years ago.
Now talking about Brandon´s experience...
Well, could be caused by a wrong intake of sodium....part of the equation...
Now...a body that is sleep deprived, starts going a whole bunch of phenomena that are interesting and crazy...with the only purpose of keeping the body and mind synch and working without blacking out...
So...Brandon was pooring sweat all over...well...when we are sleep deprived we produce a huge adrenergic response (adrenaline) that might cause over heating and sweating....also Cortisol, gets really high, and it is an hormone that triggers a faster metabolic rate, same thing with thyroid hormones...
All of this might explain Brandon´s massive sweat loss...
-Santiago
"Man!! Defeat is worse than dying, cause´you have to live with it" -My Dad
"It ain´t about how hard you can hit...it is how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward"-Rocky Balboa
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trainDaBrain posted 2 years ago.
Hey thanks all. I thought I was taking enough salt... The adrenaline/cortisol kick is an interesting side affect. Would be worth doing some reading in this area. Thanks again.
-Brandon
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kylie posted 2 years ago.
I'm wondering if it had to do with the contaminated water part... I didn't have major sweating issues, but definitely got a bit of something from that race.
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christri25 posted 2 years ago.
kyillee wrote:
I'm wondering if it had to do with the contaminated water part... I didn't have major sweating issues, but definitely got a bit of something from that race.
i've seen more and more stories coming out about lakes and such being contaminated .... a series i did last year they had to have out flyers stating lakes levels were a little out of the norm..... but everyone swam anyway. are we putting ourselves into serious risk ? i dont even like drinking the water on a run course when they make it themselves ... id rather be handed a water bottle or something that was sealed.
Chris
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Lance Armstrong 2005
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kylie posted 2 years ago.
There is the AR race this year which left a number of people shread on seriously ill (there is another it... I'm blanking on the name). It's just a risk. Not gonna happen everytime, but it's a decision I make on race day. Just like if it's raining. The bike is more dangerous, is it worth it?
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theroachs posted 2 years ago.
it sure is refreshing to witness a discussion where people disagree, but able to stay courteous and professional.
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thehitman posted 2 years ago.
theroachs wrote:
it sure is refreshing to witness a discussion where people disagree, but able to stay courteous and professional.
Guess you missed Rob's earlier thread on junk food. :eek:
http://trifuel.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2640&page=4&pp=20&highlight=junk+food
:rolleyes:
thehitman
“Always do right. This will gratify some people and astonish the rest.” Mark Twain
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dr_rios_ec posted 2 years ago.
I just read the thread....
Crazy...
-Santiago
"Man!! Defeat is worse than dying, cause´you have to live with it" -My Dad
"It ain´t about how hard you can hit...it is how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward"-Rocky Balboa
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beads1985 posted 2 years ago.
dr_rios_ec wrote:
I just read the thread....
Crazy...
That was a funny thread.
If it was a one time thing it could have been illness or some other factor from the event. If it happens regularly I would see a doctor and check out getting a stress test with the sodium patch.
Ask riverbrady. he had one done in Texas,
Nothing to it, but to do it
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trainDaBrain posted 2 years ago.
Nah, this was a one time thing. I usually have my mix from Infinit Nutrition, and this time I didn't. I only used gatorade (with H2O in the bladder). You can be sure I will be ordering my mix #2.
It's been an interesting discovery tho. Especially when I found out that other people have experienced it ( and not just on this race ).
-Brandon
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rob6118 posted 2 years ago.
Lol everyone was very snippy on that thread>>>
Hey Rob -
You're invincible dude. So have a Big Mac whenever you want. My favorite was a double cheese Whopper, though.
Fast forward 30 years -- you're a beer-guzzling couch potato, 50 pounds overweight, and blood can barely flow through your cholesterol clogged arteries. Is it time yet to think about adopting a healthy lifestyle? Been there. Done that. Not the best approach.
thehitman
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I just posed a simple question and wasn't happy with the overblown or ill thought out responses. The solution that worked for me is taking heavy weight gainer shakes. They fill me up and keep me going....
Hitman I was just going off of my experience there training in extreme conditions with a lot of guys. Sleep deprivation is a def. possibility though as well, since it was certainly present in my experiences with this phenomena as well. And only 500 mg of salt needed by an athlete? Maybe I'm a pig but wow, that's a small amount. Most days I'm sure there is at least that much salt deposited on the back of a shirt after a workout... When people are going through literally gallons of water a day, 500 mg seems small.
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beads1985 posted 2 years ago.
rob6118 wrote:
Lol everyone was very snippy on that thread>>>Hey Rob -
You're invincible dude. So have a Big Mac whenever you want. My favorite was a double cheese Whopper, though.
Fast forward 30 years -- you're a beer-guzzling couch potato, 50 pounds overweight, and blood can barely flow through your cholesterol clogged arteries. Is it time yet to think about adopting a healthy lifestyle? Been there. Done that. Not the best approach.
thehitman
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I just posed a simple question and wasn't happy with the overblown or ill thought out responses. The solution that worked for me is taking heavy weight gainer shakes. They fill me up and keep me going....
Hitman I was just going off of my experience there training in extreme conditions with a lot of guys. Sleep deprivation is a def. possibility though as well, since it was certainly present in my experiences with this phenomena as well. And only 500 mg of salt needed by an athlete? Maybe I'm a pig but wow, that's a small amount. Most days I'm sure there is at least that much salt deposited on the back of a shirt after a workout... When people are going through literally gallons of water a day, 500 mg seems small.
Everybody's nutritional needs differ.
Some good general solutions like sports drinks can cover some of you needs.
Your electrolyte balance is like a fingerprint. No 2 people are alike.
I mentioned previously you can be tested for what you lose when you sweat.
Electrolyte is a "medical/scientific" term for salts, specifically ions. The term electrolyte means that this ion is electrically-charged and moves to either a negative (cathode) or positive (anode) electrode:
ions that move to the cathode (cations) are positively charged
ions that move to the anode (anions) are negatively charged
For example, your body fluids -- blood, plasma, interstitial fluid (fluid between cells) -- are like seawater and have a high concentration of sodium chloride (table salt, or NaCl).
The electrolytes in sodium chloride are:
sodium ion (Na+) - cation
chloride ion (Cl-) - anion
As for your body, the major electrolytes are as follows:
sodium (Na+)
potassium (K+)
chloride (Cl-)
calcium (Ca2+)
magnesium (Mg2+)
bicarbonate (HCO3-)
phosphate (PO42-)
sulfate (SO42-)
Electrolytes are important because they are what your cells (especially nerve, heart, muscle) use to maintain voltages across their cell membranes and to carry electrical impulses (nerve impulses, muscle contractions) across themselves and to other cells. Your kidneys work to keep the electrolyte concentrations in your blood constant despite changes in your body. For example, when you exercise heavily, you lose electrolytes in your sweat, particularly sodium and potassium. These electrolytes must be replaced to keep the electrolyte concentrations of your body fluids constant. So, many sports drinks have sodium chloride or potassium chloride added to them. They also have sugar and flavorings to provide your body with extra energy and to make the drink taste better.
Nothing to it, but to do it
quick question to you ER types who field ironman med tents - ever have someone come off of a race to lay down, and just have the sweat pour out the body? not your sweaty gym shirt sweat, this is soak the bed, turn your body into a humidifer kind of sweat.
this happened to me after completing 18+ hours of physical effort, 38 hours of no sleep. a buddy thinks it's electrolyte imbalance... any thoughts? i was taking e-caps, and downing gatorade, but perhaps not enough...