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Armstrong Indicted in Italian Court on Defamation Charges

Tamara's picture
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started by Tamara on December 15, 2005

For those who haven't seen the story today...

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2005/more/12/15/bc.cyc.armstrong.trial.ap/index.html

"It's very hard in the beginning to understand that the whole idea is not to beat the other runners. Eventually you learn that the competition is against the little voice inside you that wants you to quit." ~George Sheehan

RV's picture
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RV posted 2 years ago.

The link doesn't seem to be working :(

RV

It takes a long time to get good. - Scott Molina
Slow is smooth; smooth is fast. - Rich Strauss

Tamara's picture
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Tamara posted 2 years ago.

try this....it's on CNN SI.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2005/more/12/15/bc.cyc.armstrong.trial.ap/index.html

"It's very hard in the beginning to understand that the whole idea is not to beat the other runners. Eventually you learn that the competition is against the little voice inside you that wants you to quit." ~George Sheehan

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outexan posted 2 years ago.

another witch hunt..leave the man alone...the forgein press is doing anything and everything it can to drag armstrong through the mud...let him be retired...

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RV posted 2 years ago.


Thanks - That got it...

RV

It takes a long time to get good. - Scott Molina
Slow is smooth; smooth is fast. - Rich Strauss

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CAcyclingFAN posted 2 years ago.

seems to be the trend in media these days.........build someone up then when you've run out of positive stories try and tear them down.

When it's time to die, let us not discover that we have never lived. - Thoreau

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RV posted 2 years ago.

CAcyclingFAN wrote:
seems to be the trend in media these days.........build someone up then when you've run out of positive stories try and tear them down.

But, when was the European media EVER posiitive about LA?

RV

It takes a long time to get good. - Scott Molina
Slow is smooth; smooth is fast. - Rich Strauss

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CAcyclingFAN posted 2 years ago.

RV wrote:
But, when was the European media EVER posiitive about LA?

True - they kinda liked him in year 2 or 3 when he learned french. But you are right, for the most part they have been trying to tear him up.

When it's time to die, let us not discover that we have never lived. - Thoreau

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christri25 posted 2 years ago.

CAcyclingFAN wrote:
seems to be the trend in media these days.........build someone up then when you've run out of positive stories try and tear them down.

european media hates american winners

Chris

``It's not as if I'm going to sit around and be a fat slob,''
Lance Armstrong 2005

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ShaunCrawford posted 2 years ago.

What a Joke

[FONT=Arial]"It's supposed to be hard. If it wasn't hard, everyone would do it. The hard is what makes it great."

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christri25 posted 2 years ago.

ShaunCrawford wrote:
What a Joke

yes it is a joke... the european media has just about totally discounted the last 7 years lance has won the tour....

Chris

``It's not as if I'm going to sit around and be a fat slob,''
Lance Armstrong 2005

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thehitman posted 2 years ago.

christri25 wrote:
european media hates american winners

The case of the ultimate winner vs. the ultimate whiner?

thehitman

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Anton posted 2 years ago.

Check out the article in Bicycling Magazine (Jan-Feb), "Paging Dr. Ferrari." It involves the fellow at the root of this...Very Interesting...

"What would life be if we had no courage to attempt anything?" - Vincent Van Gogh
My Blog: http://anton.trifuel.net

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trimedic posted 2 years ago.

Europeans hate Americans, period! It doesn't help that Lanc is such a great athlete. He's a winner, they don't like that so they are going to do whatever they can to destroy him, tant him. The media, in all lands are just like this. Someone already said it, and I agree, once they run out of positive they exploit the negative...even if it's not the truth. That's what sells.

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christri25 posted 2 years ago.

trimedic wrote:
Europeans hate Americans, period! It doesn't help that Lanc is such a great athlete. He's a winner, they don't like that so they are going to do whatever they can to destroy him, tant him. The media, in all lands are just like this. Someone already said it, and I agree, once they run out of positive they exploit the negative...even if it's not the truth. That's what sells.

oh i would love to add ,,, but this is not the forum ! LOL but You are correct and i agree.

Chris

``It's not as if I'm going to sit around and be a fat slob,''
Lance Armstrong 2005

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beads1985 posted 2 years ago.

Unfortunately this can be printed before any facts can be confirmed.

It will be interesting how this plays out.
I have a feeling Lance will ride this out and make his accusers look bad again.

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dr_rios_ec posted 2 years ago.

Nosense at all...
Why Europeans can not accept that Lance is just the greatest rider in the Tour The France....and he is American...his is Texan!!!!
I agree with what someone else said already....bad stories....that is what sells

-Santiago
"Man!! Defeat is worse than dying, cause´you have to live with it" -My Dad
"It ain´t about how hard you can hit...it is how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward"-Rocky Balboa

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PrinceofClydes posted 2 years ago.

CNN reported:
"The retired seven-time Tour de France champion has been ordered to stand trial in Italy on charges of defaming Filippo Simeoni. The case is to be heard starting March 7, to settle a feud from the 2004 race."

Ordered by whom?
Who has the authority to order a US citizen to appear in a foreign court?

anyway, remember when the Republicans maneuvered Clinton onto the stand under oath, then asked him a question he felt he had to hedge about?

My fear is that Lance will get sucked into appearing and will be asked, under oath, some question the answer to which will oblige the French Cycling Association to remove his TdF title, and guess who the winner by default will be - Ivan Basso - an Italian.

Don't go, Lance. Don't go.

Geoff

"Pain doesn't last, chicks dig scars, glory is forever!"
- Shane Falco.

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Anton posted 2 years ago.

Talked with a friend of mine who works at Justice in International Law. While unfamiliar with the case she said that an American can be ordered to appear in a foreign court for civil and of course criminal infractions. Simeoni is suing Lance for defamation. I have read libel and /or slander which are two different things. Since Lance has deep pockets it is in his best interest to go. Of course he could refuse, then he would be in contempt of Italian courts and subject to all the problems THAT would bring up. Just because he is from the US doesn't mean he is above the law...Although there seems to be alot of that going on around here inside the Beltway recently. Hopefully Lance has nothing to hide and nothing to hedge about POC...I hope so!

"What would life be if we had no courage to attempt anything?" - Vincent Van Gogh
My Blog: http://anton.trifuel.net

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Noel posted 2 years ago.

hmm never looked at it that way, POC, let's just hope things will not come that far.Allthough I live in europe, I would just like to say not all Europeans hate Lance.

Noel.
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christri25 posted 2 years ago.

Noel wrote:
hmm never looked at it that way, POC, let's just hope things will not come that far.Allthough I live in europe, I would just like to say not all Europeans hate Lance.

Noel.
Do I have to show my tatoo again?

Noel, No way do a majority of Europeans hate lance ... it is basically like anywhere else the world regarding the media. They will focus on the 1% that are the most venomous and have a glass half empty out look on everything. The problem is that the Media throws a temper tantrum to be taken seroius and that the "ideas" they report are valid and absoulte.

Chris

``It's not as if I'm going to sit around and be a fat slob,''
Lance Armstrong 2005

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PrinceofClydes posted 2 years ago.

Anton wrote:
Just because he is from the US doesn't mean he is above the law...Although there seems to be alot of that going on around here inside the Beltway recently. Hopefully Lance has nothing to hide and nothing to hedge about POC...I hope so!

This is a high-stakes chess match.
Whether LA has anything to hide is just a chip in the game.
Ask the hitman, a civil case is a free-for-all. Witnesses are not held to the same standards of evidence under civil law as they are in a criminal proceeding. Hearsay is admissable, for instance. There is a broader latitude permitted as far as questioning goes. Simeoni's lawyer can ask any witness any question he wants, about taxes, drugs, old grilfriends - and LA would be under oath!
He could be broadsided by witnesses that would contradict his testimony and maybe, just maybe, give special interests enough leverage to force Le Blanc to remove his TdF title, or to open an inquiry in France.
If LA says, "X" and they put a dozen hand-picked Italian pro cyclists on the stand to contradict him, the jury may be persuaded to find in Simeoni's favour because LA was made to look like a liar - even if he isn't! It's a huge risk.
There is a great deal of endorsement money at stake and of course, legal fees to be paid.

I don't think he has any business deals going in Italy, so maybe staying out of that country to avoid contempt charges for the rest of his life wouldn't be a loss.

Geoff

"Pain doesn't last, chicks dig scars, glory is forever!"
- Shane Falco.

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thehitman posted 2 years ago.

PoC is on the right track.

I don't claim to be an authority on Italian defamation law, but some quick research reveals some startling information.

First of all, unlike in the United States, truth is not an absolute defense in Italy.

Second, there are both criminal and civil defamation laws in Italy. It appears that Lance is being charged with criminal defamation, as well as civil.

On top of that, the civil defamation laws have recently been used in Italy as a means of intimidation. What a surprise:
"Concern is growing over the increasing influence of the Italian prime minister, Silvio Berlusconi, over the media, as Italy's libel law is used to intimidate journalists. Recent huge requests for civil damages - a popular alternative to criminal defamation complaints, which require independent investigation by a prosecutor - are threatening the survival of many newspapers and publishing companies."
http://www.guardian.co.uk/italy/story/0,12576,875898,00.html

As PoC states, the civil law process, particularly defamation cases, can be rife with abuse --- depositions, fishing expeditions, inquiries into anything and everything. Lance has the legal talent to handle this the right way; and it won't be some knee-jerk reaction that necessarily involves fighting on another guy's home turf with the deck stacked against him (to mix metaphors).

thehitman

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RV posted 2 years ago.

Thanks for the added insight. I thought this was nothing more than just some sour grapes. But the stakes are very high, and certainly does not appear that the playing field will be level or fair.

Hope LA gets and takes good advice and stays home.

RV

It takes a long time to get good. - Scott Molina
Slow is smooth; smooth is fast. - Rich Strauss

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Anton posted 2 years ago.

Not having the time or desire to really dig into this,It appears POC is on to something..As I read in "Eurotrash Monday "at Pezcycling news .com there is some tiff going on beyond the Simeoni thing and that maybe the whole business could be about discrediting LA...Something that often happens in Eurocycling it seems...discredting those who win and achieve. In my opinion the cyclists have brought it on themselves...how many can you name that have been found quilty or admitted use of some sort of go juice or another? Alot. Even Simeoni has admitted previous use of EPO,and where is Tyler? Il Pirate?
The whole affair is a mess and we can only hope that it is just sour grapes.

"What would life be if we had no courage to attempt anything?" - Vincent Van Gogh
My Blog: http://anton.trifuel.net

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christri25 posted 2 years ago.

Anton wrote:
Not having the time or desire to really dig into this,It appears POC is on to something..As I read in "Eurotrash Monday "at Pezcycling news .com there is some tiff going on beyond the Simeoni thing and that maybe the whole business could be about discrediting LA...Something that often happens in Eurocycling it seems...discredting those who win and achieve. In my opinion the cyclists have brought it on themselves...how many can you name that have been found quilty or admitted use of some sort of go juice or another? Alot. Even Simeoni has admitted previous use of EPO,and where is Tyler? Il Pirate?
The whole affair is a mess and we can only hope that it is just sour grapes.

i still think Tyler is innocent

Chris

``It's not as if I'm going to sit around and be a fat slob,''
Lance Armstrong 2005

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thehitman posted 2 years ago.

Update on the Italian Judicial System:

Watch out Lance!!! They got some strange laws in Italia!

"An Italian judge heard arguments Friday on whether a small-town parish priest should stand trial for asserting that Jesus Christ existed. The priest's atheist accuser, Luigi Cascioli, says the Roman Catholic Church has been deceiving people for 2,000 years with a fable that Christ existed, and that the Rev. Enrico Righi violated two Italian laws by reasserting the claim.
Lawyers for Righi and Cascioli, old schoolmates, made their arguments in a brief, closed-door hearing before Judge Gaetano Mautone in Viterbo, north of Rome. They said they expected the judge to decide quickly.
Cascioli filed a criminal complaint in 2002 after Righi wrote in a parish bulletin that Jesus did indeed exist, and that he was born of a couple named Mary and Joseph in Bethlehem and lived in Nazareth.
Cascioli claims that Righi's assertion constituted two crimes under Italian law: so-called "abuse of popular belief," in which someone fraudulently deceives people; and "impersonation," in which someone gains by attributing a false name to a person."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060127/ap_on_re_eu/did_jesus_exist

thehitman

“Always do right. This will gratify some people and astonish the rest.” Mark Twain
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