Swimming faster
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jmcglos posted 2 years ago.
Sorry for the 5 or 6 of these that got posted - it took forever to try to post, then it went to a page that said ERROR, so I backed up and resent it and for some reason tons of them got posted at once? I only meant to ask the question once! Sorry!
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merlinextraligh posted 2 years ago.
I'll preface this with the fact that I'm a terrible swimmer. The total immersion approach which does seem to work for a lot of people, and seems to be helping me, suggests the opposite. Don't try to increase your cadence. Rather work on efficiency and increasing your stroke length. Try to reduce your stroke count each length of the pool.
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David posted 2 years ago.
I know Total immersion is a great book : my friend learned freestyle from it. He looks good in the water !
However he got a BIG default in his stroke. Because he worked soooo much on sliding side to side his pull is not efficient. Why ? Because when you slide passively you tend to drop your elbow. Once your elbow is down, it's over. You can pull as hard as you can, you're going through.
So we're doing drills to focus on the elbow from the hand entry until the deepest point of the hand stroke. The image is to try to go OVER the water. Like when you pull yourself out of the water (without the ladder), you don’t push with your elbow before your hands….
So the arm turn-over needs to be faster than the side to side focus stroke.
Here again you have your happy medium.
Some guys slide a lot (think of Alexander Popov), so don’t. On the contrary ! Little robots (remember Janet Evans). So choose your technique.
Now for work-outs, remember to have a good portion of drills. Swimming requires the most technique out of the three sports.
And include repeat sets as the ones mentioned by Geochuck
http://www.trifuel.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3239
Enjoy your swim. :cool:
d
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jeslol posted 2 years ago.
How do you get faster and biking or running? You gotta train! Triathletes especially get obsessive about trying to make themselves faster swimmers by technique alone. This won't work. Think of it like a track workout, try to do 10 x 100 on 2 min, etc.
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cstinson posted 2 years ago.
I believe a mix of drills and endurance/speed workouts will make you faster. I used to swim about 1:56/100 yd over a 1 mile swim, but after correcting my technique I got it down to about 1:35/100 yd over 2.4 miles.
In the off season, I include about 200-300 yds of drills per workout (finger tip drag, one arm, fist, etc). I also spend several workouts doing longer sets (300s and 400s) alternating between freestyle and pulling with paddles. After some longer stuff, I sometimes throw in 4x25 fast or 4x50 fast. I try to include a faster workout by doing 100s.200s. Lastly, ever 2-3 weeks I will do a longer steady state swim (1000-2500).
I think the key is building endurance and working on technique.
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geochuck posted 2 years ago.
To swim fast we have to train fast. However it takes technique, and varied work outs. Lots of sprint work and to master your tech but most important is your desire and what we call heart.
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kona_expat posted 2 years ago.
Work with a swim coach. Only someone outside you can truly evaluate your form and efficiency. BTW, 1:30/100 yds. is NOT slow....if you can hold that for 500+ yds. Get the coach to evaluate your technique, then write you workouts to focus on technique sometimes and speed other times. If you want to build your own workout program., "Swim Workouts in a Box" is good. It tells you how to assemble a swim program (3 swims per week) that really does work.
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jmcglos posted 2 years ago.
Thanks for the advice! I'm going to look into a coach and trying to incorporate more sprints in my workouts. I'm swimming 3-4 days/week right now and swimming faster is one of my winter goals! Thanks again!
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geochuck posted 2 years ago.
kona_expat
Swim workouts in the box?? do you mean this http://www.swim2000.com/page.php?p=freeworkouts&PHPSESSID=f6ec3b79f8699155886d885aac2284bd
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TBRAVO posted 2 years ago.
Geochuck. Sorry to hear about your grandson. Hope everything goes well there.
I totally agree with your comment about if you want to swim fast you need to train fast.
My problem seems to be that whenever I try to pick up the pace, my form falls apart.
Everything seems out of sync and I know that my efficiency drops dramatically.
What type of drills would you suggest to work on this?
Thanks, T
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bpcooper14 posted 2 years ago.
For me, I have wondered about getting a swim coach to help me out with some things. My problem is, there are no master's programs around my area and even the local YMCA's are pretty sketchy. I live in a pretty rural area and it would be about an hour drive one way for me to find a swim coach. We have a small pool (20 yds) at the school where I work but it is hard to get into any type of a rhythm in something that short.
[COLOR=Red]We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing. :p
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geochuck posted 2 years ago.
TBRAVO wrote:
Geochuck. Sorry to hear about your grandson. Hope everything goes well there.
I totally agree with your comment about if you want to swim fast you need to train fast.
My problem seems to be that whenever I try to pick up the pace, my form falls apart.
Everything seems out of sync and I know that my efficiency drops dramatically.
What type of drills would you suggest to work on this?
Thanks, T
Thanks, my Grandson has had his first heart op and it is working out fine so far heart rate dropped from 140 to 90 to 95. He is 1 month 1 week old. He is due for major reconstruction of the heart in Feb.
For you that have small pools don't worry many of the fastest swimmers in the world have the same problem. Swim lots of 40s and try to get them down to 18sec. Think entry, catch and finish don't worry about the turns, make sure you come off the wall in a streamlined position and realy glide. you should come off the turn as fast as you can and get this speed to help you become faster. Don't just push off the wall gently.
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geochuck posted 2 years ago.
After thought when I lived in LaTuque Quebec I trained in a 20 yard pool all winter, it is hard to get the rythm but I would do a long warm up taking advantage of the turns to keep my technique. Then it was repeats of 40s, 60s.80s, and 100s. Lots of 440s, 200s. The day the ice went out of the lake I started to swim out doors even though I ran into thin ice on the surface of the lake. But think of the small pool as an advantage to make use of streamlining.
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Amy Lee posted 2 years ago.
hi george!
my prayers are with you, your family and your little grandson. i know that all the trifuelers must feel the same way.
i have been following this thread because i too want to get faster. only i am still REALLY slow and very frustrated. my 100 m time is generally around 2:10. if i really push it i can get it to 2:00 but that's race pace and exhasusting. i keep watching swim videos, practicing my drills, and do a little strength training here and there. been kind of stuck at this rate for a couple of months. i guess i have made some progress because 6 months ago my times were more like 2:40/100 m.
my question is about the roll? how would you describe a person who rolls correctly? maybe i'm swimming too flat. or maybe i just have a serious case of runner's drag. when i observe the faster swimmers at the Y they seem to really rotate from side to side in the water.
i plan to get video taped sometime in the near future. my team offers this service a couple of times a year. i'm gonna talk to my coach tonight. i just thought i'd get your expert advice beforehand.
thanks.
amy
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geochuck posted 2 years ago.
Thanks for your prayers.
All aspects of the stroke are important the roll included, however the finish is equally important the elbow must lift cleanly, the hand does not drag water after you finish and move forward as seen in the forth pic on the page, nearest swimmer. During the recovery the elbow is high and the hand follows the elbow to the shoulder, you can have a broken wrist or a strait wrist that I prefer, from the shoulder you use you elbow to lead and the hand eventially passes the elbow, if you move the hand slowly forward instead of whipping it ahead this will cause a slight frontload effect which raises your legs without effort. If you go here you will see what I am taking about I will add more comments re sroke on this web page later to day. http://swimdownhill.com/_wsn/page17.html (had to change the link or someone else could have edited my web page this is the right link.)
After thought Amy we do reach Plateaus, and even have backslides before we move onto faster swim times as well when we bike or run so don't be dissapointed you have gained great progress keep going.
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kona_expat posted 2 years ago.
The Swim Workouts in a Box that I mean is this: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1931382204/qid=1129196583/sr=8-1/ref=pd_bbs_1/103-8160802-6592629?v=glance&s=books&n=507846
I love these workouts (when I am writing my own). BUT, critical is knowing how to do drills properly. I would also suggest buying my coach's swim clinic e-book: http://www.cruciblefitness.com/etips/swim1a.htm
It contains video of how to do the drills and a drill progression that really works. FYI, my coach is a :52 IM swimmer.
True, you need to swim FAST sometimes to get faster, but if your form deteriorates when you do it, it's a waste of time. So, better to spend quality time on technique, and then spend part of your main sets focusing on HOLDING that technique. The more often you do this, the more likely it is that when you do swim fast that you will hold that good technique. It takes awhile, though. Be patient!
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geochuck posted 2 years ago.
You must hold form when swimming sprints but as you get faster using streamlinning you will find your swim times getting better. A good online coach is good but I prefer the personal touch of a coach or someone on line who can view your swimming videos and send back the corrections. I do video stroke analysis for swimmers all over the world, and enjoy it. Sorry for taking so long on the freebies but I do look after the paying clients first. Generally done in one day.
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geochuck posted 2 years ago.
David wrote:
Now for work-outs, remember to have a good portion of drills. Swimming requires the most technique out of the three sports.
And include repeat sets as the ones mentioned by Geochuck
http://www.trifuel.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3239Enjoy your swim. :cool:
d
David did you include the Potato Sack excercise the last post on that thread.
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Learn posted 2 years ago.
I really don't think there is any alternative to Total Immersion freestyle clinics. I spent the weekend doing one last october. They are all over the world so look it up.
I also took an extra-orderinary step of going to the creator of Total Immersion to fine tune it in his endless pool. He's in upstate New York in a hick town in the middle of nowhere. Lousy location but worth it because I gained as much with him as I did from the clinic.
I was not a swimmer before this - I wouldn't drown, but I couldn't swim - so I fortunately didn't have any bad habbits to loose.
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catwood posted 2 years ago.
I always wondered why all my swim coaches would give us fast hard stuff even at the very beginning of the season. I think I finally figured it out now that I've stopped swimming competitively... After a long break, I decided that my first step would be to go slow and work on my stroke and endurance... I found out that when I do lots of long easy sets, I start getting into bad habits like adding weird pauses in my stroke. Then that causes trouble when I try to pick up the pace...
My solution: Early in the season, you can wear fins for part of the workout... then you can keep the effort low, but the speed totally blows up any hesitations in your stroke... You should feel smooth and fast with find, not jerky and in any way. Then later in the season, do more speed sets. I find that my body can take much more intense swimming than it can intense biking or running.
Just for comparison:
When I was swimming competitively, my 'cruising' pace (about 1000 tt pace, maybe a second or two slower) would be about 1:15 for 100 yards (I was training 36,000 yards/week on average)
After a 2 year break where the only swimming I did period was triathlon swims (which are speedwork): 1:35
After a few weeks of just long easy workouts with no speed work and a messed up stroke from it: 1:35
Now after a few more weeks of easy base-legal workouts with some fin and speedwork added, back down to 1:25 on 6000-8,000 yards per week or sometimes less because my other disciplines need more work.
When I am pushing hard in a long race or tough set, the things I think about, in no particular order and I can never think of more than one at a time are:
-finishing my strokes.. follow through all the way on the drive before beginning the recovery
-drive with the hips.. get that rotation snappy, to increase turnover
-fast forward elbows/hands.... even in a race you're supposed to relax your arms on the recovery, and the rotation and therefore turnover's supposed to come from the hips, but sometimes my arms just get sluggish and they start to pass each other too far back...
-catch and throw... similar to finishing the strokes, basically as soon as you catch, take the water and accelerate it down past your hips, also prevents dropping the elbow on the drive...
-keep it smooth... if you get choppy you're wasting too much energy... its ok sometimes for sprints in practice to see what it feels like and see just how hard you can go smoothly, but for a triathlon swim, no way except at the start...
Good luck! If you can keep up 1:30 for a race, for a sprint or oly you should be in the top 10-15%...
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geochuck posted 2 years ago.
Very good Catwood
I like the mix Slow Fast Slow, although after a long layoff the fast is also slow. Fins, I like in the early stages of conditioning but should be left home after the initial conditioning period as far as I am concerned. Warm up should be done to get your muscles warm, the fast work should then be done cocentrating on good style and faster times, not to fall apart. Then the warm down is a loosening up phase which lets the heart slowdown and shake out the muscles so we get rid of fatigue.
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kona_expat posted 2 years ago.
The thing is that if you've been swimming since you were 8 (competitive let's say high school at least), then you developed your good form EARLY and have had many years for it to become ingrained. So if you are one of "those," then you DO need to get back to swimming FAST, and not spend as much time on form as say, someone like me who took up swimming a measly 5 years ago, meaning I have the stroke of MAYBE a 10-year old. I, too, need to do fast sets, and I do them, but I have a ways to go to develop the perfect technique of a 15-year old, if I can ever hope to get there. Meanwhile, I'm happy to become progressively more efficient in the water so that I can continue to use my biggest strength, biking, to my advantage.
I still say the BEST way to improve your stroke is to work directly with a swim coach; what you do beyond or beside that is a matter of opinion as to what works the best. But I stand by my statement that you do need to do technique work, which means drills, and it's critical that you do the drills *correctly* otherwise you are just learning poor technique. Get some videos (Steve Tarpinian makes some good ones, so does my coach), have someone film you above and below water so you can SEE yourself, and then adapt your drill routine accordingly.
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kona_expat posted 2 years ago.
Oh yeah--my first year of swimming I took semi-private TI lessons. 2 years later, I had a "normal" swim coach unlearn some of the TI stuff so I could focus more on stroke (since I pretty much had body roll down). I also requested feedback from good swimmers, and finally, I've been taped above and below water.
I do remember that it took me 2-3 years to "feel" what my hands and arms were doing, and to then be able to modify what they are doing. I guess this is the elusive "feel for the water" that gets talked about so much. Now I can sense where I am in the water, and it's easier to tell if my form is deteriorating.
So if you've only been swimming a few years, again, have patience, you will get better, and once you start to have a feel for the water, the real fun begins, swimming becomes enjoyable, and you will be able to push your speed while maintaining good form.
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catwood posted 2 years ago.
Sorry kona,
I know that post was more directed at people who have a decent stroke already. I totally agree with you though... I think I said something like that in one of my earlier post or something. I don't know where to make a cutoff and it would vary by case, but if you can do a 100 in <1:30 then you're probably ready for something besides just stroke work...
I agree that a coach is the best way to go.. you risk getting into so many bad habits. I'm no coach and I know that you can't teach swimming over the internet. Sometimes it helps to have what the coach says rephrased in several different ways and one of them might click.
I agree with kona all the way... get a coach and don't try to go "fast" until you have smooth comfortable efficient stroke thats been looked at by a coach. Bad habits are very hard to correct once you start doing tons of yardage and hard sets and I sure know that from experience....
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geochuck posted 2 years ago.
I do coach on the internet but would rather coach in person for sure, get a coach if you can but remember this if you don't train at speed you will never swim fast in a race. If we wait til the stroke is perfect you have waited too long get speed and distance under the belt and the stroke perfects itself. Just follow the five simple rules of swimming.
1. You don't swim fast if you will not swim fast
2. Don't make splashes above the water.
3. Swimmers are only limited by their technique
4. Swimmers have to be athletes – not just swimmers.
5. You might as well do a lot of hard, fast swimming.
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jmcglos posted 2 years ago.
Wow - you guys are great! Thanks for all the information. I have decided to start masters swim - they have coaches and 2 nights a week they also have stroke technique classes. So I think I'll start there because I just feel I've reached a point where I need some outside assistance. Thanks for all the great responses. It's really helpful!
Ok - so I want to become a faster swimmer. How can I do this? I have a good stroke technique, and am pretty efficient in the water, but I'm still not as fast as I want to be. Should I just work on increasing cadence of my stroke? Kicking harder? Bring my arm through faster in the stroke?
Does anybody have any suggestions for intervals that I can do to try to get faster?
Right now, if I'm pushing it pretty hard, I can do a 100 yard swim in 1 minute 30 seconds. My normal, slower pace (if I'm swimming longer than 100 yards) averages around a 1 minute 45 second pace for the 100 yards.
Any suggestions and help is much appreciated. Thanks!