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40-30-30 or 60-15-25?

rb85cj7's picture
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started by rb85cj7 on June 1, 2005

I am new to tri's and i can't do the run because of too many back surgeries.

i am techniquely obese 6'0-216lbs and looking to go to 190 or so. i ride 3 or 4 times a week. swim 2 or 3 and lift 2.

I have heard both arguements. "eat a lot of protein", and "don't worry so much about protein and focus on carbs". this is too complicated for me.

Any veterans out there have some insight that could help me out.

Thanks for the help in advance.

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bluebirdbiker posted 3 years ago.

I'll take a stab. I used to do tris in school, after, I just vegetated and grew big. A few years back when I said "Thats It!", in one year I went from from 227lbs to 160lbs., I'm 5'9". I was big too. The quick weight loss has been because of triathlons. How?

Eat small portions. Eat (nibble) constantly. I mean 6 times a day, swim and bike. Each day do one to two events and take one or so days day off per week. It doesn't have to be hard workouts. Most important to understand is if you intake less calories than you expend YOU WILL LOOSE WEIGHT (3500cal=1lb). Get a heart monitor that has a calorie counter on it for assistance. Its invaluable if you want to monitor the calories burned during exercise but remember its only an estimate of expendature. Monitor what you intake vs output. Keep a good diet, primarily fruits and vegetables etc. but mainly REDUCE portions and eat more frequently. There are many good discussions in trifuel to help you. Do a search.

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rb85cj7's picture
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rb85cj7 posted 3 years ago.

i have been monitoring my intake and output on fitday.com it has been really helpful. but i just don't understand what ratio of carbs-prot-fats i should be intaking.

i have already lost 15lbs. i am heading in the right direction.

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krbrownabq posted 3 years ago.

I would shoot for the 60-15-25, but I would also recommend reading Chris Carmichael's "Food for Fitness"

Don't go the low- or moderate-carb route. You're training. You'll be in a chronically glycogen depleted state and will eventually burn yourself out (not to mention what you'd be doing to your kidneys, eyes, etc.).

As for the heart rate monitors, they have a margin of error of about +/- 15%. Not that that's not helpful, but frankly, you can probably estimate within that margin of error (it's kind of like calipers - +/-4% on body fat, but having done enough calipers, I could pretty much guess within that range just by looking at you - actually, most of us could probably hit that range). The HRMs are reliable though in using them to gauge relative calorie burn from day to day (as in, if it said 1200 one day and 1500 the next, you know you burned more on the 1500 day, just don't assume it's actually 300 calories more).

My best suggestion is cook at home and immediately divide the meals into portions. Eat what you've alloted for yourself and have healthy snacks if you're still hungry. Takes a little trial and error, but it sounds like you are already well on your way.

Under no circumstances should your daily caloric intake ever drop below 1200 kcals (okay, can we get an RD to back me up on this?) because you won't be meeting your bare minimums for essential nutrients. I would argue active folks will always need more than that - keep a food journal and see what caloric intake keeps you losing weight at a healthy rate (of 1-2 pounds per week).

Kelli

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RV posted 3 years ago.

I also recommend reading Chris Carmichael's "Food for Fitness". It provides different ratios of carbs to protein to fat for the different phases of your training. I am 6' 2" and weighed 205. I am now at 169. And the increase in endurance and speed is really great. The best advice I have followed is that there are no bad foods just bad portions. Okay that is not quite true, the best thing is to eat healthy and provide your body with the right types of fuel. But snacking on a treat once in a while is also not a bad thing - just limit the portion size.

RV

It takes a long time to get good. - Scott Molina
Slow is smooth; smooth is fast. - Rich Strauss

rb85cj7's picture
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rb85cj7 posted 3 years ago.

i understand the eating more carbs on the days that i am going to do more. but i can't workout every day, so on those days should i move to a more balanced eating plan?

Thanks for the help

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RV posted 3 years ago.

Certainly on recovery or rest days you need to reduce your overall intake. Even on heavy training days you want to stay slightly in a calorie deficit - if trying to lose - the key here is slight.

RV

It takes a long time to get good. - Scott Molina
Slow is smooth; smooth is fast. - Rich Strauss

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rb85cj7 posted 3 years ago.

fitday.com says that i spend about 3000 kcals before i even start working out. could that be right. if that is the case i am having a hard time getting in my calories in. i just don't eat things that are bad, if i have them around i will eat it all at once.

Any thoughts

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RV posted 3 years ago.

That seems high - I am doing 3600 - 4000 on normal training days (usually 2 workouts) and then on heavy training days (i.e 5 hour rides plus 30 - 60 minute transition run) I will do over 5000. This works for me to maintain my weight and recover sufficiently for the next. Use charts and recommendations as starting points - everyone burns calories at different rates based upon fitness levels and metabolism etc. You have to edge it up or down as it pertains to you. Experimentation.

RV

It takes a long time to get good. - Scott Molina
Slow is smooth; smooth is fast. - Rich Strauss

rb85cj7's picture
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rb85cj7 posted 3 years ago.

fitday says my basal is aroun 2100 and my job (seated work) is 900. but i thought that the basal took your job into account.

so i am just going to say i spen 2500 before i work out. that way on days i don't to anything i still have a low base to work with.

but still what do you think more carbs or more protein? i have read articles that say both.

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trigirl97 posted 3 years ago.

I think it's highly personal so there's no one way to approach this. And we all know there's a million schools of thought on which is the 'right' diet.

Some people crave/need more protein and others can get by with a little less. The key is to experiment and find what works for you. How do you feel? Is your energy consistent? Or are you having energy highs and lows? How do you feel during your workouts?

I'm not really into picking my diet apart to the last detail but I shoot for about 60-20-20. This works well for me. But I am of the mindset that whatever ratio you choose, what matters most is what types of foods you consume. I've seen numerous debates on a calorie is a calorie. But I personally believe the density/composition of the foods you eat impacts you.

I mean if you ate 60-20-20 (or whatever ratio) composed of chips, candy, sugary cookies, soda, bacon you would likely look (body fat) and feel much different than someone who follows the same ratio by eating whole grains, veggies, fruit, good fats, lean proteins and dairy.

Just my $.02. There's a great discussion of diet/nutrition going on in the 'Running' forum.

Good luck and congrats on the weight loss!

"Only those who risk going too far can possibly find out how far they can go." ~T.S. Eliot
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bluebirdbiker posted 3 years ago.

Matbe this will help, its been posted on some other threads, from (KONA_EXPAT)

BBB
There are no excuses - so don't look for them. As a product of your own choices, you directly determine your life outcomes.
Don't think, just do.
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BigMatt posted 3 years ago.

First off Congradulations to all you guys and your weightloss stories, it is great to hear success stories of other athletes. All the advice up to now I have seen is good. I to had one of those stories, 240-170, and still look in the mirror every day expecting to see that fat kid!

here are my tricks to succes. Eat clean, stay away from as much processed foods as you can, preservatives are bad. Cook as much as you can, or find a reliable restaraunt that you know what they put in. Water, Water, Water. Drink tons of it I drink 150 oz a day, not including training. i cut out sugar, no sweets. (once a week I get to cheat) I also eat some kind of animal protein at every meal 8-10 oz. Carbs are good, I find that during training rice is my baby. Brown for hearty meals, and jasmine for readily usable energy.

If you are training a lot, watch out for the calorie deficit thing, it can be pretty hard to manage. Don't go more than 500 (if that). And if you feel like you are groggy or beat, forget it for that day. If you go into a hole it will end up being worse for you in the end, usually ends in a binge. I find that a good ol glass of OJ usually will bring me out of it.

I also eat what your mom always said to do, a huge breakfast. I find it really jumps my metabolism, especially with a lot of protein. I usually eat 5-6 eggs 1 yolk, 2-3 servings of oatmeal, and if i have it some almond buttterand toast. This really gets me going, and usually makes me more hungry as the day goes on, but with small meals spaced throughout the day, helps out a ton. it is all about stoking the fire.

i could go on all day, but i gotta go swim, if you have any questions email me, id'e be happy to help. Mainly find what works for you, every one is different, a nutrtionist can help out to find what works for you. Remember, the beauty of this sport is the amount of calories we burn. I eat twice what I did when i was overweight, and I love it, good luck, and have fun- bigmatt
:D

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tcrunner07 posted 3 years ago.

BigMatt....what kinda oatmeal...any certain brand or type

If you get a flat, and don't have a tube, Suck it up and run it in!!!

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bluebirdbiker posted 3 years ago.

Thats what I find interesting when everyone shares what works for them. Thanks BigMatt. I find what you said very useful. I eat regularly throughout the day (nibbling a lot) but tend to be hungrier towards the eve, do you guys find that your hungier at the end of the day?

BBB
There are no excuses - so don't look for them. As a product of your own choices, you directly determine your life outcomes.
Don't think, just do.
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rb85cj7 posted 3 years ago.

man i am trying to eat but i just can't eat that much. i need to start bring more to the office. today i have a bunch, just went the store last night.

Thanks for everyone's input.

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JoseM posted 3 years ago.

rb85cj7 wrote:
fitday.com says that i spend about 3000 kcals before i even start working out. could that be right. if that is the case i am having a hard time getting in my calories in. i just don't eat things that are bad, if i have them around i will eat it all at once.

Any thoughts

fitday.com is a pretty neat website. I just signed up for it. And it says that I burn over 3600 cal/day before I work out...but the bad news is that I'm "severly overweight". I weigh 244 pounds @6'1" and the chart only goes to 250 :( But before I started working out I was off the chart at 260 pounds!

So did I understand it right that for every 3500 calories LESS than my required calories, then I'll loose one pound? I'm trying to bump my weight loss up from 1.2 lbs/week to ~ 2.2 lbs/week. So I'd have to eat 3500*2.2 = 7,700 calories less per week. Which is 1,100 calories less per day. Is this correct?

So....what you're saying is....benching 1.5 times your body weight 10+ times is NOT good for triathletes?! OOOOOH! :eek: :D

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rb85cj7 posted 3 years ago.

that is pretty much it. i wouldn't worry about the number of lbs you are trying to lose right now. i started 230 and am now 211 and the lbs are flying off. In the beginning you don't have to count the calories as much as do aerobic workouts (at least something 5 to 6 days a week) and eat better. The goal is not to have to count calories for the rest of your life. the goal is to change the way you eat so you don't have to count as many calories.

JUST eat right. i think that has been my best advice.