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Zone 5?

toni's picture
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started by toni on May 23, 2005

Is it bad to run in zone 5 the whole time during a run? I can't run in any zone other than this one without feeling like I'm running too slow. I ran my Half marathon yesterday and did well (PR on that course) and ran the whole thing in zone 5. Compared to RPE I don't feel like it's hard. It's just comfortable, maybe a little challenging, but it's just how I run. What's the downfall of running in this zone? What are the perks to running in the other zones?

Toni

-Toni
The only thing we have to fear is fear itself. - FDR

christri25's picture
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christri25 posted 3 years ago.

what is zone 5 ... really high ?!

Chris

``It's not as if I'm going to sit around and be a fat slob,''
Lance Armstrong 2005

TIM G's picture
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TIM G posted 3 years ago.

I've never heard of zone 5 before....sounds like you do fine regardless!

toni's picture
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toni posted 3 years ago.

I'm just going off of my Timex info booklet.

Z1 is 97-116
Z2 is 116-135
Z3 is 135-154
Z4 is 154-174
Z5 is 174-193

During the race my average was 180. So yeah, I guess it is really high. And that's why I'm wondering if this is okay. I know the saying goes "If it ain't broke, don't fix it". Just wondering if I should be doing something differently. That's all.

-Toni
The only thing we have to fear is fear itself. - FDR

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vanjames posted 3 years ago.

What was your time? What was your HR? DO you run all your runs at that rate?
Zone 5 for you would be around 185bpm. That is high if you can maintain that for 1.5 hours.

Generally zone 5 is an anaerobic zone which will end up burning muscle before fat for fuel once your carbs are gone. Zone 5 training generally is for intervals and sprints followed by resting periods or recovery jogs.

More power to you though if you can maintain it for a half mary.

Here are zones from Gale Bernhardt's Training Plans for Multisport Athletes. I think these are more realistic. A great book even if you read just the section on hr zones and training.
Here's an example of how the zones breakdown in her book.

Assuming running lactate threshold of 180

z1: 119-153
z2: 154-163
z3: 164-172
z4: 173-179
z5a: 180-183 LT
z5b: 184-190 Anaerobic endurance
z5c: 191-199 power

toni's picture
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toni posted 3 years ago.

Time for the half was 2:17. Avg HR was 180. It mostly stayed in the 186-7 range though for the second half of the race. And I do run at this pace all the time.

I haven't used my HRM for a while and pulled it out for this weekend to have something to distract me during the race. So when I realized my HR was in zone 5 for the whole race that's when I began to question it. I felt fine. This will just give me something to work on and keep an eye on I guess.

-Toni
The only thing we have to fear is fear itself. - FDR

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KenMierke posted 3 years ago.

Hi Toni,

How did you test your zones? No athlete could possibly maintain zone 5 for that duration, so you need to develop another method. Each zone is optimal for stimulating certain adaptations nd we need to blend them to make all the changes that will enble us to bring everything together on race day. Ken Fitness-Concepts.com

Ken Mierke Ken@Fitness-Concepts.com
Fitness Concepts Fitness-Concepts.com
Author, The Triathlete's Guide to Run Training
www.EvolutionRunning.com

christri25's picture
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christri25 posted 3 years ago.

maybe the HRM was wrong, If soneone else had on around you it could have been taking different readings and getting confused,

Chris

``It's not as if I'm going to sit around and be a fat slob,''
Lance Armstrong 2005

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bluebirdbiker posted 3 years ago.

Like Ken says guys, I have to agree with him. You have to establish your HR max and then your anerobic threshold (or vise versa). Sounds like you have a higher HR max than you thought and likewise your anerobic threshold is higher as well. There is no way you could have done that distance in a zone 5. You should conduct the proper tests and find out what your levels are. Its an individual thing based on your aerobic ability. Look at the article on the trifuel web page:

http://www.trifuel.com/triathlon/heart-rate-training/index.php

Read it and try some tests on yourself.

Libor

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PrinceofClydes posted 3 years ago.

Toni, without wishing to contradict you, impossible to do from this far away and without verifiable info anyway.

As has been pointed out above, Zone 5 is unsustainable effort for more than short intervals. Something is wrong.

Even if you have a high heart rate, what you did wasn't Zone 5 for 90 minutes, because by definition you held that pace for 90 minutes. On that sort of reading your zone 5 would be something like 200 or more, and that is untenable too. So supposing you are right and you did have a heart rate of 180 for 2:17:00 that isn't your Zone 5.
Better check your data somehow.

unless, of course, you are just visiting this planet!

PoC

"Pain doesn't last, chicks dig scars, glory is forever!"
- Shane Falco.

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trithis04 posted 3 years ago.

PoC, I agree! Personally I've never seen anthing close to a 190 bpm and certainly cannot stay at anything over 180-183 very long at all. I realize that everyone's HR and LTRH vary, but as Chris mentioned the HR monitor may have been off.

I'd try using the HR more to determine if it's accurate.

[FONT=Impact]-Jason
"Fatigue will make cowards of us all!"

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catwood posted 3 years ago.

i find that I use to be able can sustain funning with my HR in the high 180s too... Once i did a <20 min 5k race and my average HR was like 196 or something! i tried to do my long runs with it below 160 and since then i have found it gradually drifting down for race pace, but its still high... i guess as i get a bigger running base it will go down...

during base its important to do a lot of low HR training because when you train with a low HR it trains your heart to pump more blood per beat as as you get a bigger base... when you race, well, its a race - hold whatever you can sustain!

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bluebirdbiker posted 3 years ago.

Thanks for sharing the HRs about when we exercise but it doesn't make much sense to any of us unless we know your HRmax. A 24 yr olds HRmax 'theoretically' is 196 where as a 40 year olds (like me) 'theoretically' is 180. We all (should have) higher HRmaxs though. My point is while catwoods 180bpm (if she is 18yrs old) would be 90%. Mine at age 40 would be a slower 162. BIG DIFFERENCE! Speaking in % HRmax would be more understandable for two reasons 1) we all should have higher that the theoretical HRmaxs and 2) we all are different ages. Am I wrong in this thinking?

BBB
There are no excuses - so don't look for them. As a product of your own choices, you directly determine your life outcomes.
Don't think, just do.
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trithis04 posted 3 years ago.

Bluebirdbiker,

No, I think your right. This is a touchy and complex matter b/c everyone is so different when it comes to HR. It's hard to say where someone else should be at.

Catwood,

The 190 avg. is way above my limit. In fact, I don't see 190 on track intervals, I can say with out doubt I've never seen 190 on my wrist. At a similar 5K effort sub 18min. I'll avg. maybe 175. But as distance increases and the pace may slack I'm down a bit. The last half-marathon I did 1:27 a 6:45 pace my avg. was just below 160 (159). So, I think it may be somewhat a genetic thing too. The idea still being to condition the body to operate under the stressful conditions more effectively.

[FONT=Impact]-Jason
"Fatigue will make cowards of us all!"

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KenMierke posted 3 years ago.

Everyone is different ... the 220 minus age formula is accurate for the average of a population, but a single standard deviation is +/- 12 bpm. Athletes with lower HRs have larger left ventricals with thin walls. They can pump a lot of blood per beat, but cannot empty the chamber quickly. Those with high HRs have smaller chambers, but thicker muscular walls which empty quickly, but with a lower stroke volume.

Cardiac output is HR x stroke volume. What helps us go fast is the total amount of blood we pump, whether it is through a lot of beats per minute or a lot of blood per beat. We've had great champions with extremely low HRs, moderate HRs, and extremely high HRs. HR levels are a very individual thing, but miles per hour and minutes per mile win races, not beats per minute.

Toni, you need to test your own thresholds and not assume that 180+ is zone 5 for you. If you have a performance lab in your area, having metbolic testing is incredibly useful. I know of labs in Washington DC http://www.fitness-concepts.com/voxmax.htm and Chicago http://www.multisportmadness.com/PT/index.html This is the most precise way to adjust training to your unique physiology. Good luck, Ken

Ken Mierke Ken@Fitness-Concepts.com
Fitness Concepts Fitness-Concepts.com
Author, The Triathlete's Guide to Run Training
www.EvolutionRunning.com

toni's picture
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toni posted 3 years ago.

I knew it didn't sound right and so that was why I posted the question. It just didn't make physiological sense to be able to work in that zone for so long. I was talking with another nurse today about this and to be anaerobic for so long just isn't possible without building up tons of lactic acid (which we blow off as CO2) and literally not being able to go any further. Which we all know. I just didn't know the answer to my question or what to do about it. Now I do. I'll check out those websites Ken and assume that I just have small heart chambers with thick walls. :) This POV does make a lot of sense.

Anyhow, it looks like I have some research to do and some testing as well. My guess is that 180bpm is my zone 3. Thanks for the input all!

Toni

-Toni
The only thing we have to fear is fear itself. - FDR

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beads1985 posted 3 years ago.

I was using a HRM and used the standard formula. 220 minus my age( 37) I was going into zone 5 quite a bit. I was going at a good pace but I held back.

After a physical I had to go get some additional test done because my resting heart rate was too low. After all the testing was done I went to a cardiologist, who also ran marathons. He reviewed everything and gave me a clean bill of health. I spoke to him about the HRM and he advised that the standard formula is for someone starting out. If you have been training to go with 220 minus HALF my age.

Now my zone 5 is about 180-200 compared to the 163-183 it used to be.
He also was a proponent of perceived effort to guide you.

I now use the HRM but not as my only guide to my pacing.

Nothing to it, but to do it

toni's picture
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toni posted 3 years ago.

Hmm . . . So mine would be 220 - 14 = Zone 5 of 206 - 186 Then by the end of my half I was in Zone 5 but ran most of it in Zone 4. I haven't had time to figure mine out yet as school is coming to a close and I have projects and papers to finish to ensure I graduate in two weeks.

I've mostly been using perceived effort in my training, but just recently became curious about my heart rate. Thanks for the input though. It's good to know someone else has had to figure it out too. :)

Toni

-Toni
The only thing we have to fear is fear itself. - FDR

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KenMierke posted 3 years ago.

Hi Toni,

Forget every formula. No formula takes individual differences into account. I have personally performed or supervised my staff performing over 6,700 VO2 max and lactate threshold tests and individual differences are enormous. Write me off list at and i'll send you an exerpt from my book, The Triathletes Guide to Run Training, which will help you determine your zones. Ken

Ken Mierke Ken@Fitness-Concepts.com
Fitness Concepts Fitness-Concepts.com
Author, The Triathlete's Guide to Run Training
www.EvolutionRunning.com