My kick SUCKS!!
74
Member
1445 days
swimbikerun_boy posted 3 years ago.
you want to have most of the motion come from you the top of the quad (hip flexor i believe) as if your whole leg is on a hinge at that point. Not a lot of movement should happen around the knee but you don't want your legs to feel like they are too stiff to bend.
Do not to pull your feet out of the water This is a waste of energy; but think about pushing on the down part of the kick and pulling on the up part.
I tend to not kick a lot when i race (would rather save my legs for the run and bike portion), and if you are racing with a wetsuit this will make everything easier, because the wetsuit will help pull your lower body onto the surface. And you will be more like a surfboard then a bag of bricks (just joking with the bricks thing).
Hope this Helps
Peace
Tyler
:cool: ~~Cheers~~ :cool:
477
Member
1344 days
geochuck posted 3 years ago.
I like to do a lot of kicking on my back with the hands at the side sculling. When I kick on the front I put my hands behind my back with the chin out of the water, this eliminates runners kick.
849
Member
1488 days
catwood posted 3 years ago.
Don't kick with a board, it really doesn't help. Kicking with a board just makes you faster at kicking with a board. When you do kick drills, either do what geo says or kick on your side... You should work on ankle flexibility, try sitting on your heels when you aren't doing anything and eventually you can work up to sitting on your heels with a book under your toes.
Especially for a triathlete, the kick doesn't play a big part in your propulsion. So if you are watching tapes of really good swimmers, don't copy the kick of the 50 free stars... although I'm still kind of struggling to break my 6-beat kick habit - I don't think its a big deal, but no sprints any more. I think the best way to develop a nice 2-beat kick would probably be just to concentrate on making your body rotation come from the hips and keeping your axis of rotation straight. If you have a good feel for the water and body awareness it might help your kick timing. Swimming with fins also helps with timing and ankle flexibility. Also, I think swimming with a small pull buoy and concentrating on the same thing helps too....
The kick motion itself should have a slight foil motion (hip, knee, ankle firing in that order), but if you want the simple answer, keep your knees straight(a little relaxed though) and point your toes.
477
Member
1344 days
geochuck posted 3 years ago.
Catwood
George Breen http://www.ishof.org/75gbreen.html one of the great 1500 m swimmers in the 50s did a two beat kick . It is hard to break the six beat habit. I was a minimal kicker let my legs flutter naturally and used my legs for balance except if I had to sprint. Make sure not to kick above the water wasted energy.
Simple is better.
105
Member
1414 days
tri1on posted 3 years ago.
Thanks everyone that helps!! I do have a follow-up question/comment:
When I race I always try to use my legs as little as possilbe, keeping my legs still. But alot of times I come out of the water and either my hamstrings or calfs will be cramping....is this from trying to keep my legs still....should I let them kick naturally?
477
Member
1344 days
geochuck posted 3 years ago.
tri1on wrote:
Thanks everyone that helps!! I do have a follow-up question/comment:When I race I always try to use my legs as little as possilbe, keeping my legs still. But alot of times I come out of the water and either my hamstrings or calfs will be cramping....is this from trying to keep my legs still....should I let them kick naturally?
Just to clarify George Breen almost did a scissor kick.
The only time my legs seem to cramp is when I do great amounts of arms only swimming in workouts. I do not use a swim bouy to keep my legs on top, so I use tension (cramps). I would suggest your legs do a natural flutter kick for balance. Never force a no kick just let them be relaxed, they must be near the surface and alittle flutter keeps them there.
105
Member
1414 days
tri1on posted 3 years ago.
Hey thanks geochuck...i think I do tend to force a no kick during races. Ill have to focus more on just keeping in natural and relaxed.
Jason
32
Member
1586 days
SL posted 3 years ago.
Running gives you notoriously have overly-tight ankles. My master's coach recommended purposefully working on stretching out my ankles, work on it daily. I feel like I have a little more speed in kicking drills now. fwiw...
105
Member
1414 days
tri1on posted 3 years ago.
geochuck wrote:
I like to do a lot of kicking on my back with the hands at the side sculling. When I kick on the front I put my hands behind my back with the chin out of the water, this eliminates runners kick.
geochuck....??? Hands behind your back ( lets say handcuffed..or are you sculling?) and chin/head out of the water?...unless I had fins on I think i would drown. Are my ancles that bad? I consider myself a "fairly efficient" swimmer...I usually go 16-18 strokes per 25m...when going slow i guess. And today in the pool I made a point to see how I kicked....it was just enough to keep me in proper plane...nothing more really
105
Member
1414 days
tri1on posted 3 years ago.
catwood wrote:
I think the best way to develop a nice 2-beat kick would probably be just to concentrate on making your body rotation come from the hips and keeping your axis of rotation straight.
Catwood...when i am swimming I think my hips follow the lead of my shoulder/arm, which initiates the rotation for me,....is this the wrong way??
477
Member
1344 days
geochuck posted 3 years ago.
tri1on wrote:
It is hands behind the back thumbs interlocked chin out of the water. I mention it not as a training device but it eliminates other problems, eg. "My Kick Sucks". It is done to help eliminate runners kick. for the beginners. I still do it to build up my back muscles occasionally as I am still basically a 6 beat kicker it is hard to change, when training I do a very light two beat dolphin off the turn and one dolphin kick with each stroke. I am 13 strokes for 25m at race pace and swimming slow 10. but when wacked out I even get up to16 strokes per 25.
geochuck....??? Hands behind your back ( lets say handcuffed..or are you sculling?) and chin/head out of the water?...unless I had fins on I think i would drown. Are my ancles that bad? I consider myself a "fairly efficient" swimmer...I usually go 16-18 strokes per 25m...when going slow i guess. And today in the pool I made a point to see how I kicked....it was just enough to keep me in proper plane...nothing more really
Oh by the way, no kickboards, fins, hand paddles, bands or swimbouy floats for me.
849
Member
1488 days
catwood posted 3 years ago.
yes you should initiate the rotation with your hips.... They are in the center of your rotating axis, if you think about rotating your hip bones, you will use your core more (good!) and you rotating axis is less likely to bend or twist as you swim... It feels like if think about your hips to rotate your body, then your lats are free to really supple power to your stroke....
Don't know quite how well this illustrates it but whatever just thought of it:
Try holding a pencil in you hand between your fingers and slip your fingers past each other so the pencil rotates lengthwise. Try this holding the pencil in the middle and at an end. You will see how when you try to rotate the pencil by its end they other end seems to make all sorts of motion out of line and it is just plain harder. When you initiate the rotation with your shoulers its like rotating the pencil by the end - you will have to use lots of extra energy to keep your rotating axis in a straight line and chances are your hips are sliding from side to side instead of rotating at least somewhat. Initiate you body's rotation with your hips.
414
Member
1376 days
trithis04 posted 3 years ago.
I would not worry too much about your kick. Most distance swimmers don't rely on it anyway. And especially considering most tri swims involve a wetsuit, the kick is even less important. When swimming distance (w/out a wetsuit) it's my understanding the kick just helps to keep your body level in the water. This helps keep your hips up and reduces body drag. Catwood mentioned not to try and imitate a sprint swimmers kick, as this type of effort is not sustainable for a longer swims. I would focus on upper body technical and strength issues if your looking to improve speed at Iron-distance.
When wearing my wesuit my kick is just about non-existent. I've tried to utilize it a little more, but it has not seemed to make a difference. However, I still do kick drills during training. The purpose: Not really to improve my kick, but to build general leg strength. Going back to my military days, I still have not found a better leg exercise than training with fins. It builds great overall strength and endurance that pays dividends outside the pool.
[FONT=Impact]-Jason
"Fatigue will make cowards of us all!"
183
Member
1303 days
KenMierke posted 3 years ago.
Much excellent advice above. I would add that keeping the kick narrow, even when you are kicking hard, is very important. You need to swim through a cylander in the weater the width of your shoulders. If your kick is wider than this, it displaces water you should never touch, causing excess drag.
The best tool for improving kick is hip fins. This product is a pair of small, firm plastic triangles on a belt. You wear the belt with the fins on the sides of your hips. The fins provide additional resistance to torso rotation and tech you to time the kick to stabilize rotation and then relax.
Ken
Fitness-Concepts.com
Ken Mierke Ken@Fitness-Concepts.com
Fitness Concepts Fitness-Concepts.com
Author, The Triathlete's Guide to Run Training
www.EvolutionRunning.com
105
Member
1414 days
tri1on posted 3 years ago.
thanks everyone for the insight on this hydrodynamic task....I really do appreciate the comments and everyones advise!
So back to the basics of swimming ....and the body rotation...how does one get a feel for swimming from the hips? what are the initiating thoughts or movements when you actually do it?
I really seem to be thinking about my body rotation after im pushing forward
My kick SUCKS!! I think it actually slows me down. Can anyone help me to visualize what a proper/efficient kick is like. Do the knees bend much?? I really tend to slack on the kicking when i am swimming and Im going to pay for it.
I seem to get passed by other people on kickboards alot.