wave start madness
412
Member
410 days
Socket posted 32 weeks ago.
Your points all make sense to me.
As for starting slower people first, yeah its about having the finish times be around the same time. Just looking at the elite starts in the NYC marathon, the women started well before the men so they could all finish in a convenient timeframe (I believe ~10-20 minutes).
I guess they figured if they organize the finish times by age group, why not start everyone by age group. You know, except for that part where there is still a large range even within an age group. I'm in the 25-30 AG and while I'm finishing in the lower half overall, someone else in my AG is likely to be in the top 5 overall. Sure, the math says my AG is going to be faster than the 45-50 AG but in reality the 45-50's are likely to come in before me.
Do AG starts have some logic? Yes. Is it good, safe, and applicable in real world situations? Not so much as I can tell.
1392
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944 days
tri-ac posted 32 weeks ago.
it's likely that the 20somethings are a little quicker than the 50somethings, but not necessarily all the time...
the rd's probably stack the starts according to size of start group, more likely than not, to get even numbers of competitors on the course. the 20's tend not to be a large group so they may get stacked with the 50's, who also aren't usually as big as the 30's and 40's. it doesn't favor the fast folk, but it favors a relatively even density of competitiors out of the gate; then, it shakes out from there.
and, unlike a marathon, aren't you competing against your AG? don't you want to know where they are?
894
Member
1057 days
PJT posted 32 weeks ago.
The race organizers want the finish times to be similar, but that's because they want to minimize the total time that roads are closed, which saves $$ on permits and police pay. If you have the slower groups leaving last (which I agree is safest), you have to keep intersections staffed that much longer than if you have them go first. I believe that type of thinking is penny-wise and pound-foolish, as it makes the race lless attractive to athletes and more dangerous, but I'm not a RD.
Not every RD does this. Some mix it up completely, while some send elites first, followed by age groups by fastest likely average finishing times.
528
Member
1249 days
vanjames posted 32 weeks ago.
IM Australia does this - when you register you put in times for your swim - when you pick up your kit it has a colored swim cap for your group. It is a mass start ut they have different sections that colored caps line up in each separated by about 25m. Now the race is done is a narrow riverway but I thought the concept was excellent for smoothing out the washing machine and increasing the safety of the swim portion. It was a also a deep water start - my first - preferred it to regular starts.
252
Member
314 days
Leroy Bonkers posted 32 weeks ago.
tri-ac;85970 wrote:
and, unlike a marathon, aren't you competing against your AG? don't you want to know where they are?
Yes, I'm gunning for age group glory. But by the time the fast swimmers from wave #2 overtake the slow swimmers from wave #1 it is impossible to count the folks ahead of you with your color swim cap. I've never exited a swim knowing how many people in my AG were ahead of me. AG waves would be useful for contesting the 15th and 16th places, but it seems better to be safer. At the first three spots you will still know who is who because you'll be lining up together to begin with.
And I'm competing against my age group in a marathon too, they just don't have their age written on them. That would be cool for running races to have AG bibs on the back of your shirt - but I digress
252
Member
314 days
Leroy Bonkers posted 32 weeks ago.
PJT;85986 wrote:
The race organizers ...want to minimize the total time that roads are closed, which saves $$ on permits and police pay.
PJT with a line drive!
So let's say you add to that time the full time it takes to make wave starts. 45minutes? an hour?
I'd say you can start the waves closer together because you have far less risk of fast fishies overtaking the previous group. I'm thinking every 60 seconds instead of every 3 minutes? And now weve found another improvemet - start times are closer together. Less time standing in line for your start.
In light of UFTrigators recent race day disaster I'm wondering....
Why do most races start the slower biking waves first anyways? I'm not saying that I've not been chicked a few times, but in general the Mens 18-24 race is going to have a higher average speed than the Women's 50-54 race. So why intentionally create a traffic jam? Is it so that everyone can have finishing times that are closer together?
And while I'm at it... Why not have waves start by projected finish time instead (as in marathons. How stupid would it be to have age group starts in a marathon?). The fastest few folks in each age group would still line up together so that they could compete side by side with each other. And the contenders for the overall standings would get to push each other during the race even if they were in different age groups (another improvement).
Hey WTC - want to keep people from getting mauled and beat during the swim? Take projected swim finish times and make people line up accordingly. Everyone has been to a 5K where little kids line up in the front and cause traffic. Why do it in a more dangerous environment. I know it is each person's personal responsibility to self seed. But that's not happening. Everyone knows it's only a matter of time before someone gets knocked out and drowns.
It's a customer service issue people:) ... any point counter point on this? I really don't know what I'm talking about and I'd love to hear why! Afterall, with a reduced workout load during the offseason I've got nothing better to do than rant.