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Him

durhamj11's picture
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started by durhamj11 on November 7, 2007

I am going to be training for a HIM for next July and I think i have it figured out as far as how much swimming, biking and running i need to do but the nutrition part of it I really need help. This will be my first HIM, I did sprint tri's all last summer. Is there a standard place where people start out to try and get the nutrition under control. Like, to have a something every 45 minutes on the bike etc.... and then i could train that way and see if i need more or less. I am really bad at knowing what my body needs when and often have to be reminded to eat and drink on the bike.

HELP!! :-)

RV's picture
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RV posted 1 year ago.

On the bike I will do a gel (with water) every 30 min. Drink sports drink every 10 minutes - except when taking a gel - then water.
The amount of fluid is highly variable. Depending on conditions etc.
Just takes a lot of training rides to work it out.
You can set your watch to go off on whatever interval to remind you to eat and drink.

RV

It takes a long time to get good. - Scott Molina
Slow is smooth; smooth is fast. - Rich Strauss

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jmcglos posted 1 year ago.

I usually do a gel every 30-45 minutes and sip the sports drink throughout. I try to drink at least a bottle of sports drink or water between aid stations (so that's about a bottle every 10 miles). Like said above, it also depends on the conditions for the day.

If it's a HIM, I only do gels and sports drinks, and then take a salt tablet every hour or so. I lose a lot of salt, so I try to replenish it often. I don't do solid foods for a HIM distance or less - my stomach doesn't like it coming off the bike that soon into the run. But again, keep experimenting and play around with it in your training. That's the only way you'll really know what works well for you.

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kylie posted 1 year ago.

Yeah, start playing with it on your rides. Setting an alarm on your watch is a great way to go -- I've started doing that and not letting me get to it in "just a second". If I can take my hands off the bars when it beeps, I fuel right then.

Fuels can be gels, solids, liquids -- try them all, and see what keeps your gut feeling the best and your body comfortable. I've found good things with a mix of carbo pro and nuun, but I often use gels in training as well. Good luck!

RV's picture
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RV posted 1 year ago.

Another thought: Make sure you do some 30-60 min runs after your long bike. This will tell you if you are dialing in your nutrition properly.
Sometimes you can feel great on the bike and then the stomach can rebel on you a bit when doing the run immediately after the bike (usually when you don't hydrate properly on the bike). Just something to be aware of.

RV

It takes a long time to get good. - Scott Molina
Slow is smooth; smooth is fast. - Rich Strauss

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brittda posted 1 year ago.

kylie;84795 wrote:
Yeah, start playing with it on your rides. Setting an alarm on your watch is a great way to go -- I've started doing that and not letting me get to it in "just a second". If I can take my hands off the bars when it beeps, I fuel right then.

Fuels can be gels, solids, liquids -- try them all, and see what keeps your gut feeling the best and your body comfortable. I've found good things with a mix of carbo pro and nuun, but I often use gels in training as well. Good luck!

Good idea!!! I still have problems ---esp in races where I just "forget" to eat ....if forgetting to eat is possible:eek:

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jacmun posted 1 year ago.

My best mates girlfriend is a dietician who specialises in sports nutrtion. The best thing I ever did was talk to her. One of the stupidist things I ever did was talking to her after my first IM where I did stupid nutrition things and hurt myself because of it. The following summarises my approach which is based on some very good evidence she supplied. I have used this pretty much religiously since and tweak it slightly depending on conditions. A little lengthy but I think it works, My tri mates use a similar strategy

1) Training your body to take on nutrition is as important as training for any of the components. You cannot perform if you are hypoglycaemic or dehydrated no matter how fit you are. It took me months to get up to tolerating the nutrition load I use comfortably and I tested complete nutrition plans on my long endurance saturdays several times.

2) You can absorb about 1g of glucose/kg body weight/hr so for me at about 75kg, 75g of carb every hour. I work in grams rather then KJ, most foods have both on the label

3) You need about 750mL of fluid per hour again for a 75kg male. In cooler conditions you can get away with less, in hotter conditions you may need closer to a litre/hr amybe more. Slightly over doing it usually means peeing more, however people have pushed themselves to coma by taking way to much free water.

4) Your body will alter concentrations of glucose/salt you eat to be the same concentration as your bloodstream. So if you eat a high concentration load without enough fluid your gut will secrete fluid to make it the same concentration BEFORE absorption. ie you can effectively lose water if you eat too much sugar without fluid. The first organ to shut down during dehydration is your gut, this is the main cause of those terrible gut cramps which hit people mid marathon.

5) Continual steady supply wins the race. Your ability to absorb glucose falls usually at about the 5-6 hour mark. Thus I believe you have to take advantage of the ride to keep the intake at maximum level before the marathon. Obviously not so important for half IM.

My overall eating plan:

-Breakfast 3 hours before race
-Gel 5 min prior to swim (27g) with 250mls electrolyte (Horleys replace)
-Gel out of water with another 250 mls thru transition
-750 mls of electrolyte per hour on the bike (Again I use Horleys but there are a million drinks this is about 1/3 of the calories) On the hour and 30 min marks I take half a gel (1/3 calories) and on the 15 and 45 min marks I take a quarter of a power bar. (1/3 calories)
-run I aim for 750mls of electrolyte per hour, I divide this by the stations and hit a gel or power bar only on the 30 mion and hour marks. usually I wind up a little fluid down

This reads as pretty a-retentive but talk to the pros out there and they put a lot of effort into this. I only use bars and gels on long training and racing as they are expensive, the important thing is teaching your body to cope with whatever you use and maintaing discipline to keep fuel going in regularly.

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kylie posted 1 year ago.

jacmun -- great info, thanks for sharing. The only note I have to add is that the amount your body can process and the amount of fluid you need does seem to vary a lot person to person, so instead of looking at those numbers and just using them I recommend using them as a starting point and then adjusting from there.

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Triphile posted 1 year ago.

Jacmun: Great write up, I really appreciate the time that went into preparing that post.

I would add that you shouldn't forget to supplement yourself with additional salt. Sports drinks and gels don't neccessarily include all that you need. Determining what you need is best accomplished over time. I've linked to an article on my blog, but the link is broken now. Here is an excerpt that addresses my point:

Quote:
Fluid and salt replacement are the keys to success in hot weather training and racing. The best strategy for getting your salt and fluids right is to weigh yourself naked before and, as soon as possible, after workouts. Other methods are either expensive, impractical, or both. Chart these weights and progressively increase your fluid and salt intake until you lose less than a 1/2 pound for workouts less than about 3 hours and a max of a pound for longer ones. Remember that dehydration is a major risk factor in the occurrence of heat exhaustion and heat stroke. Very few athletes can ingest more than 250-300 Kcal per hour at race pace, but most can train themselves to drink up to 32 oz or more per hour. The article referenced below addresses this issue.

This article can be found here

This is directed at those in hot weather conditions, but from my experience in the military, fluid loss and repelenishment are just as important in cold weather. So check it out no matter the climate you are training in.

For the sake of uniformity, I've registered a new username. Sorry for any confusion. Follow my progress towards finishing Ironman Cd'A 2008 at http://www.triphile.com. Thanks!

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durhamj11 posted 1 year ago.

Thank you guys for all the input! This is going the help me out a lot! Regarding the salt intake... how do I know how much salt I loose? I don't sweat a lot, and i don't know if that is because i am not very hydrated (which could very be the reason) or if it because of something else.
I can't wait to start using these ideas and see how much it helps! I am usually one to not eat or hydrate well....

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kylie posted 1 year ago.

To determine how much salt you need you just have to play with it. I know, sucks huh?

Some people I know take tons of extra salt in longer races, and I find what is in the Gatorade Endurance is plenty for me. I also don't train with salt supplements.

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jacmun posted 1 year ago.

The salt is difficult, physiologically we all secrete different amounts and that level can change in individuals at different tims. I have always selected a high Na/K sports drink. I remember the first time I used my current mix it was like drinking sea water, but you become used to it very quickly. I now add a small amount of salt to my mix just to bump it a little more (about 1/3 teaspoon in 750mls)

As the other guys mention those levels of glucose are at the higher limited of most peoples tolerance so get used to them. I like the adage: if you are going to run yourself at full throttle why not get the octane level as high as you can

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durhamj11 posted 1 year ago.

How do you know if you don't have enough salt, or too much salt? Are there warning signs that i need more salt or that i have too much or that I am just right?

RV's picture
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RV posted 1 year ago.

Not enough and you cramp. I usually get a twinge or two before I really cramp so I have time to compensate.
Tough to tell if too much - for some it will upset stomach if too much taken at a time. I will back off a bit if I notice that my sweat stings my eyes then too salty.
Lots of things affect the consumption here, hot days require more, your personal sweat rate, how hard you are working etc. Trial and error.

RV

It takes a long time to get good. - Scott Molina
Slow is smooth; smooth is fast. - Rich Strauss

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CarlyBoy posted 1 year ago.

RV;85014 wrote:
Not enough and you cramp. I usually get a twinge or two before I really cramp so I have time to compensate.

Be careful with this. While cramping CAN be caused by low electrolytes there are many other potential culprits. If it were as simple as low sodium, why wouldn't our non-working muscles cramp? And why might a person cramp in a very short race (1 hr early season duathlon, for example) when electrolyte depletion didn't have enought time to set in? While the accepted explanation by most at one time, a better understanding of the cause of exercise induced muscle cramping is evolving. Good article here you might want to consider..

http://www.cptips.com/muspain.htm

Re too much electrolyte intake: since sodium (the most crucial electrolyte) draws water, symtoms of excess intake will be water retention related: puffy hands and feet, puffiness under the eyes. While generally not an immediate health concern, it will hinder your performance.