Inexplicably tight let muscles
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Triphile posted 43 weeks ago.
I would address two issues, though different training philosophies may counter this:
1) The long run on Saturday is roughly 65% of a Marathon! That's a really long, long run. In researching builds to marathon fitness, I have found that many would shy away from that distance, keeping a long run around 50%.
2) Soreness from my runs usually hits me at around 36 hours. This would seem somewhat close to the timeline you've described. Then to do a leg workout followed by a such a fast run? I would not have approached it like that, but obviously fitness will dictate.
I have a couple of questions: What was your fitness at Week 1? Was this plan developed for you? What was the distance of the long run prior to Saturday's? You mentioned that the long run this weekend is a "step down" to 12 miles, which is very near that 50% mark I mentioned (and the longest I've taken long runs to). What was Friday's workout?
All else aside, I'm of the school that if it doesn't hurt a bit afterwards, progress isn't being made. Obviously, too much is a bad thing.
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kylie posted 43 weeks ago.
I agree with Triphile on point 2 -- it takes a while for the soreness to really hit me. I know the best way to make my legs really feel a workout for a while is to do a hard workout one evening, followed by a tough on the next morning, even when alone neither of those workouts usually stresses my system.
However, I disagree on his second point. I will do runs around 20 miles in marathon build, and that works just fine for me. I have seen many plans that build up to that or even longer! I don't believe that training for a marathon should only take you to the 13.1 mile marker -- you just wouldn't be ready for the amount of pounding! While you could possibly still finish (depends on mentality more then) it would be much more painful than needed.
As for dealing with the feeling, get those legs loosened up! Perhaps a massage. A spin on the bike to wake them up. A walk. Something nice and easy to get the blood flowing. See how you feel after a couple days, and then decide (by listening to your body) if the 12 miler is a good idea. I got my legs to that sore point recently, and it only took a couple days to go away and I still got in a longer weekend run.
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PrinceofClydes posted 43 weeks ago.
Second day stiffness is the norm.
While response may vary (how much discomfort you feel) stiffness is typical and nothing to worry about. No matter what you think is the case, ie whether it was an easy workout or not, your body is telling you that you just did a hard workout - the long run then the other stuff you described following that.
Recovery is more important that the actual workout.
Take it easy this week or you risk injury.
Get your aerobic workout this week by swimming, spinning on a bike or bike trainer, even a recumbent trainer, get a massage,
Your muscles are telling you that they have been stressed - this is a good thing. Now treat them well, don't abuse them more. This is time when you get stronger - by recovering well!
cheers,
PoC
"Pain doesn't last, chicks dig scars, glory is forever!"
- Shane Falco.
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kylie posted 43 weeks ago.
Very good point PoC! Always important to remember that the "getting stronger" from a workout occurs during recovery, so take that part just as seriously as the workout!
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Triphile posted 43 weeks ago.
Taking that advice into consideration ties into a discussion in another thread about cycling during marathon training. As I mentioned, cycling has proven to be an awesome recovery for me after longish runs.
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biketm posted 43 weeks ago.
Good thread. It's funny about that second day soreness thing. I have figured out how to sneak in a workout before the delayed on set muscle soreness sets in....I guess it's ok, I have been doing it for a long time.
Example: Last Sat was an 85 mile hard ride with the roadies - Sunday was a long run of 16 miles. For the reasons we are talking about, Mondays are always my best day running. Last night I ran a fast 10 miler and felt great, but Tuesday's I will be super sore, than you know what. Then I will spin on my bike or swim for a day or so and will feel good to go again.
Interesting stuff.
Tim
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sccrutch posted 43 weeks ago.
Thanks guys. And I guess this is sort of a "duh" moment for me. Two weekends ago, I ran in Austin which is much hillier than my hometown, and I skipped the morning class, did a light 3 mile run Monday evening and was fine the rest of the week.
I guess as much as I hate to, I need to drop the Monday AM class......or at least just skip out on the leg sessions.
I was in "Olympic Tri" shape on Labor Day, and went almost straight into the marathon program for the Houston Marathon Jan. 13. I took Hal Higdon's book, which I used last year for my first marathon, and compiled a program that combines the two intermediate levels into a schedule that works for me.
He has some pretty long runs in there, for example, my run in Austin the previous weekend was 16 miles. The weekend before that was 12. For context, I'm doing these long runs at anwhere between a 9:15 - 9:40 pace. The Friday before was a "quick" (for me) 4 miler. I did a Spin class on Thursday, speed intervals on Wednesday, a 7 miler on Tuesday and a 3 miler that Monday.
I am signed up for Ironman Couer d'Alene at the end of June, so I wanted to be in "marathon shape" when I begin the Ironman training in earnest.
I guess I do need to re-examine my distances during training....the last thing I want to do is burn out before spring!
Secondly
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Triphile posted 43 weeks ago.
I would think that a four mile increase of the long run over the course of a single week is pretty significant, too much so (and that was in weeks 6 to 7!). I would recommend you increase over smaller increments. Anybody else?
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kylie posted 43 weeks ago.
It depends what the weeks leading up were. I often follow a pattern of 3 weeks building, 1 week dropped back on distance, or alternate building and lower weeks. So something like 13, 14.5, 16 (for three weeks of building), 12 (for the drop back week), 16 (back into the building) would be completely reasonable.
You are right that generally ~10% increase is about what your body can safely handle and learn from, but there are ways to end up with a 12 and a 16 in side-by-side weeks while still being smart about distance increases.
Also, keep in mind that it's less the raw number of miles, and more the percentage that is something to watch.
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...and I mean every muscle in my legs.
Here's the deal. I'm in week 8 of a 16 week marathon program, and Saturday, ran a leisurely 17 miles. Soaked a while in an ice bath, and had a normal weekend. No soreness.
Monday morning, went to a muscle conditioning class, and we did the typical walking lunges, a few squats, etc. Then ran 3 miles at a 10K pace at lunch.
Now I can barely walk. First time in ages the legs have been this tight.
I skipped my 8 miler this morning, and am looking for some help on how I should approach running this week, leading up to the weekend, which included a "step down" 12 mile run.
Should I hop on the bike an extra time or two? Just suck it up and run through it? Anything else?
Thanks.