osteoarthritis
Hii need your advice.
I am 21 and have been doing triathlons for 3 years. Sometime 3 years ago before i started racing i had attempted to do a backflip and twisted me knee. I heard 3 loud pops and my knee swelled like a dinosaur knee. I got an MRI when my knee was still swollen and they said there was no ligament tear but i bruised the bone and tore cartilage in my knee. The doctor said i should experience a full recovery. Well thats not really the case...
Now when I stand straight you can see my injured knee looks like a blob instead of like my other knee. When i bend and extend my knee or move it it clicks and grinds. Also it still feels wobbly. It also hurts a bit after a hard run and feels wobbly (not hurts) after i swim. I just got a new pair of shoes and it helps a bit.
I am worried because i heard that after tearing cartilage and being a distance runner i am at a huge risk of osteoarthritis. Right now i swim 5 times a week and run 5 times a week. I also rollerblade 2 tiems a week cuz i have nobody to bike with. I was wondering what i can do to help my knee and reduce my risk of getting arthritis. And if i would need surgery or not? My family doctor gave me no useful advice and i wanted advice from other endurance athletes.
Thanks and please any advice would do id rather get an amputation and a fake leg than not be able to run or swim in the future.
A couple things....
1) Find a very good sports orthopedic in your area and have him/her examine your knee. You need to know your diagnosis before you do anything.
2) Find an educated sports physical therapist that can start progressing you to a stronger and more stable knee. Make sure to ask around and get a good recommendation before you go to just any "PT". A good PT can help prevent the joints from "freezing up" and will improve and maintain joint mobility.
3) You need to decrease your running for a little while. Five days a week is too much. Do not do anything that agravates the knee. Maybe a light run 1-2 times a week, but nothing too intense. Running 5 days/week will do nothing to subside the pain. You need rest and strengthening work for you to progress.
4) Swimming, bicycling (with no pain), light weight training, and walking are all forms of exercise you can continue, as long as it doesn't affect your knee.
You are young. Give it time to heal and you can be back to running again. Slowly progress yourself. If you begin heavy into your running, too fast, you will never give your knee the chance to heal, and you will always have an issue.
Hope this helps!
Justin Levine
www.justintrain.com
"Be excited to live and enjoy every day to the fullest!"
I agree with lot of what Justin said. Find a sports based physio or doctor and get them to diagnose. When I ruptured my ACL the local doc said "stay off it for a few weeks and take Panadol if it hurts". Sport Physio diagnosed ruptured ACL after about 15 seconds (and was right).
Knee was very unstable but that's to be expected with ligament damage. Obviously it's crazy trying to diagnose you over the Internet but finding a good sports based medico will at least let you know what the problem is and they'll be sympathetic to you desire to return to activity.
One more thing, if you can do so without pain, do everything you can to keep condition in your quads. If you do need surgery, your recovery will be heavily based on rebuilding your quad condition to stabilise your knee. If you don't lose muscle condition you'll have a good head start.
Good luck, and let us know what happens.
'k
Well...I agreed too with the guys...
....now, there is something you should know...
Runners because of running do not get osteoarthritis more than the regular non running population. Large epidemiological studies confirm that. Meaning that bad knees because of running is not truth.
Now, I totally agreed that you do not have a definitive diagnosis of what really happened in your knee, and what is the status at the moment.
You need to consult with a profesional, not an internist, not a pediatrician, you need an orthopedic specialist or a sports specialist doctor.
I am pretty sure that you are going to need to get some films, MRIs and so on...
But before cutting down your training, or thinking that your young runner days are over, you need to get a diagnosis....
Do not jump on the poppin´pills wagon, to become another recreational athlete who pops NSAIDS like skittles, believe, it might get addictive....
For now, I would recomend local aids, like ice packs for starters after your runs.
But do not wonder around too much...go get an appointment with a good doc, and you´ll do a lot for you by taking that advice.
That is a doctor´s word by the way ;-)
Best wishes to you brother, and let us know how you do
-Santiago
"Man!! Defeat is worse than dying, cause´you have to live with it" -My Dad
"It ain´t about how hard you can hit...it is how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward"-Rocky Balboa
I agree with Dr Rio, and I am an orthopaedic surgeon
That history sounds more sinister than the original opinion given. Knee swelling that occurs so severely straight away can be a clue that a major ligament injury, think ACL has occured. Your subsequent history reflects this as well.
You need to be careful with MRI reports. In our practice only a specialist musculoskeletal radiologist reads the films. Not to criticise your management but the point is the MRI or its interpretation are not foolproof.
I strongly encourage you to follow Dr Rios advice and get an Orthopaedic specialist opinion, preferrable one of the sports knee guys.
In terms of rehab if everyone would get on a bike what a wonderful world it would be. While the impact of running tends to upset injured knees, we get anyone with a ligament injury onto the back as soon as they can tolerate it to build quads strength. So get that knee reviewed, and then work in the recovery with your long term training plan
Good luck
sigh... i only wish i could get an appt with a specialist. for some reason i think it will be too expensive or something, and im really tight on cash. i also kept thinking i was over dramatizing the situation tho i am kinda worried.
the initial diagnosis was i dislocated my knee. but that was only a guess. the orthopedic doc i saw 3 years ago said the first pop was probably the knee cap dislocated and the 2nd pop when it bruised a bone and the 3rd pop was a relocation. The only reason i found it strange was that i never really felt pain when this happened. i just heard pop pop pop and i fell to the floor. within 30 minutes i had a dinosaur knee. when i got the mri my knee was still huge. i dont know if this may have skewed some results. but the only thing they saw was torn cartilage and bruised bone.
my knee doesnt really have pain i guess after a hard run as i said. its more like feeling slightly sore. i heard strengthening the quad can help but i dont know how to go about doing this. my legs already look toned. i thought cycling does stregthen the quad? and running??
also if i tighten my quad muscle of the injured leg my knee looks normal. when i am relaxed it returns to the blob.
and im not sure if the clicking in my knee is a bad sign, or normal after a injury. until i can see a specialist should i continue my normal routine?
ps thanks for the advice everyone :)
Well, if is going to take a while before you see a specialist, is going to be good if you cut down your running like Justin said for example. Try low impact activities like cycling, elliptical machine, or water running.
It is crucial that you keep a strong musculature in your legs, quads and hamstrings because that also helps to keep in line your bum knee.
With the cliking, the deformity, and so on, could be many things, and is going to take some careful examination, hands on, and a good set of films to disclose what is going on. Jacmun is perfectly right!, MRIs are not fool proof, and you might need some new films, maybe a brace, maybe some rehab (almost for sure).
But since you have to wait, because of monetary issues, that happens to everyone, take it easy, look for alternatives to keep your fitness, try some icing, and so on.
Best wishes brother, don´t worry you are a young guy, and with proper care you´ll be as good as new.
-Santiago
"Man!! Defeat is worse than dying, cause´you have to live with it" -My Dad
"It ain´t about how hard you can hit...it is how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward"-Rocky Balboa
The only reason i found it strange was that i never really felt pain when this happened.i heard strengthening the quad can help but i dont know how to go about doing this. my legs already look toned. i thought cycling does stregthen the quad? and running??
I'll qualify this by saying I'm NOT a doctor:)
From experience, rupturing an ACL (and I suspect other knee ligaments) hurts like hell. I mean, it REALLY hurts!! Read into that what you will.
Your quads probably are strong from cycling but it's surprising how targeted muscles can be. I'm currently seeing a Physio about a minor, niggling knee pain which requires very specific muscle execution that I apparently don't hit when cycling. (It's patella tracking issue).
I'm curious to hear what the docs say about your knee returning to 'normal' when the quads are tightened. Sounds interesting.
cheers
//k
sigh.. the future doesnt look good for me.. i just did some research on the internet. this is just one paragraph i found.
Jogging actually is not hard on the knees. A lot of people say, "Oh, it's going to cause arthritis," but running or jogging hasn't been shown to increase the incidence of arthritis. The thing that leads to long-term complications are knee injuries. So, if you've injured the knee and are jogging, then it can be hard on the knee. An injury is one of the biggest predictors of getting arthritis.
i found more but... BOO =***( the last thing i want to do is be my friends dad who had total knee replacement surgery when he was only in his 40s. Hmmm. Well anyways i dont have the money to see a specialist but i am going to go tomorrow to the human performance lab at my college and ask if i can get advice from one of the sports medicine professors or grad assistants or someone who may have more knowledge about an injury related to sports. And thanks everyone for ur advice. I am cutting down my running this week from 5 days to 3 days. Hopefully i can keep it at that. I went for a 5 mile run today and my knee wasnt hurting but i felt the normal jelly blob from it as i was running. it was just a slight annoyance.
I want to stick to running but not cause myself problems in the future. If 5 times of running a week is too much than i might try 3. Anyways hopefully i will hear good news tomorrow and thansk again from everyones advice :)
Don't worry too much about what you read on the Internet - go and get a proper diagnosis and worry about how to handle things after that. There are lots of things you can do if you want to cut down running.
As someone who's had a serious knee injury I don't show any signs of Arthritis in that knee (yet my spine is riddled, go figure).
My advice, get professional advice:)
'k
I wouldn't worry so much about osteoarthritis. You will be more at risk in the future if you don't treat that injury. If you take good care of it, and you are very conservative, there is no reason to worry about osteoarthritis for now. I'm saying for now, because a lot of people above their 40's get osteoarthritis, and it can be a normal wear of the articulations, not necessarily caused by exercise or injuries. It's still manageable. A lot of people are living a normal life even though they have osteoarthritis.
In my opinion, running 3 times a week with an injured knee is still too much. You need to give a break to your knee, for it to heal properly. Listen to your body, take it easy, and go see a doctor as soon as you can.
Good luck!
[CENTER]------------------------------------------------------------------
Caroline
http://aquabike.blogspot.com/
the last thing i want to do is be my friends dad who had total knee replacement surgery when he was only in his 40s.
The advances in the arthroscopy surgery have been so drastic over the last few years. Knee injuries that you father’s friend had could most likely be healed by a simple surgery now as opposed to a drastic knee surgery that was required only a few years ago.
My dad injured his knee playing football in college and was never able to recover from it because the surgery that was required to fix it was more drastic than the injury itself. He has lived with the discomfort ever since. I badly injured my knee playing football a few years ago and after the initial rehab for surgery I have no pain in my knee at all.
I guess what I am trying to say is that even if your injury required surgery, what they can do is so far superior to what they used to be able to do that your knee will be fully healed.
the athletic trainer at my college suggested a supplement GLUCOSAMINE . it is found in cartilage and may help prevent arthritis. the one i found has msm and something else in it. I havent noticed a difference yet but i am taking this to help. I thought other runners may want to take it too if you want to be on the safe side. it is safe and you can buy it at walmart. :)
the athletic trainer at my college suggested a supplement GLUCOSAMINE . it is found in cartilage and may help prevent arthritis. the one i found has msm and something else in it. I havent noticed a difference yet but i am taking this to help. I thought other runners may want to take it too if you want to be on the safe side. it is safe and you can buy it at walmart. :)
The other thing is probably Chondroitan Sulfate(sp?). I take a couple of Glucosamine and fish oil capsules every day - figure it can't hurt and may just help my aging bones a little. Fish oil seems to have universal acceptance as a 'good' oil. I love fish but am not too keen on the oily varieties.
/k
Hey---yes, absolutely, If there is any supplements we athletes should be taking is Glucosamine and chondroiton--theyv are usually one tablet with both supps in each 1500/1200 daily is the usual recommendation. I started with them at age 43 and I am now 52 and just have mild OA. They now have the supplement Gluc/Chond with Hyaluronic Acid added. Also good for helping with the cartilage cushioning. I'm the babe who is getting my firt HA Iinjection next week (hyaluronic Acid) By the way, I am an over-the-top athlete and this is my first "issue" . I had my first surgey this summer-torn meniscus and this OA is probably a result of the debriding of the cartilage. Yes, see a sports Doc--there are some great ones around--Try one who treats lots of college athletes. This is a great site!!
Another thing to keep in mind...Glucosamine/Chondroitin can take a couple weeks to a month to start working, if I'm remembering correctly. Don't get distressed if you don't notice "sudden improvements". Aim at taking it for the long haul.
"Care more than others think is wise, risk more than others think is safe, dream more than others think is practical, expect more than others think is possible."







Hi
i need your advice.
I am 21 and have been doing triathlons for 3 years. Sometime 3 years ago before i started racing i had attempted to do a backflip and twisted me knee. I heard 3 loud pops and my knee swelled like a dinosaur knee. I got an MRI when my knee was still swollen and they said there was no ligament tear but i bruised the bone and tore cartilage in my knee. The doctor said i should experience a full recovery. Well thats not really the case...
Now when I stand straight you can see my injured knee looks like a blob instead of like my other knee. When i bend and extend my knee or move it it clicks and grinds. Also it still feels wobbly. It also hurts a bit after a hard run and feels wobbly (not hurts) after i swim. I just got a new pair of shoes and it helps a bit.
I am worried because i heard that after tearing cartilage and being a distance runner i am at a huge risk of osteoarthritis. Right now i swim 5 times a week and run 5 times a week. I also rollerblade 2 tiems a week cuz i have nobody to bike with. I was wondering what i can do to help my knee and reduce my risk of getting arthritis. And if i would need surgery or not? My family doctor gave me no useful advice and i wanted advice from other endurance athletes.
Thanks and please any advice would do id rather get an amputation and a fake leg than not be able to run or swim in the future. :(