I see advertised at various places a book etc for the Pose method of running. Anybody familiar with this? The book was something like $30 - and I am always interested in anything that can take my old body and help me run faster, better,...

Hey,

I have heard of the book, but haven't heard any feedback on whether or not it has worked for anyone. I do know of another book by Jack Daniels (not the whiskey :)), but a fairly well known long distance/marathon coach.

The book is called Daniels Running Formula and I know some pro triathletes that have trained on it and had good results. I'll be picking up a copy myself shortly.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/redirect-home/trifuelcom-20

-tribro

Thanks Tribro

I ordered both the book you mentioned and the Pose book.

Of course reading about running and doing it are a bit different.

After I get the books and digest them - maybe we can discuss further

Brad, I started working on the pose method early this summer. I made the switch because I have had several running injuries over the past 5 years and have never had a proper running form. My stride was heel to toe so a change was needed. Well I am to the point that I can carry on several miles rather comfortable with the new stride. I also find it easier to run a quick pace (when I say easier I mean from the cardio side). I have not suffered any injuries but I have not run the same distances i have in the past so I am not able to comment here.

I will say that if you do decide to change your form you will need to follow the workouts they give you. I can guarantee you, not only from personal experience but from others who have done the program, that you will feel pain at first. I would gradually transition to the method, during the off season is a great time to do this, and have patience.

Why is it you feel the need to change your running form?

Thanks for your input. You asked why do I want to change my running form? -

I am not sure that I do. I have dropped a lot of weight this year and would always like to get faster. The only chronic injury I get is shin splints which I have reduced by wearing compression wraps when I am running.

So not understanding what the Pose method is - it tweaked my interest in it. I should have the book soon, which will explain what this is all about.

If you no longer run heel/toe what do you do now? Flat foot plant, land on the forefoot? Again the book will probably answer these questions.

:cool:
Guys,

I hope somebody is still subscribed to this and can give a brief description of what 'Pose' running is?

I've been in a couple of half marathons over the last couple of weeks, 2hrs 15mins then a 1hr 59mins.

Not being a good runner, it amazed me on both runs that people were passing me (old and young) and didn't seem to be exerting any effort whatsover.

So any technique that can improve my running would be appreciated.

Glyn.

Here is the web site for pose
try the site for more info
http://www.posetech.com/pose_method/

Brad?

Cheers matey; paid a visit and after reading all of the blurb I think I see where this is going. :D

Looks like I'll have to "cough up some dosh" for the full training programme. :p

Or maybe it's too late to teach an old dog some new tricks?

Cheers again.

Glyn.

I have just returned from a weekend in South Beach Florida with Dr. Nicholas Romanov. I have been interested in this method of running for sometime and whne I was at the USA Olympic Training Center in Colorado last month for my USA Triathlon Level 2 Coaching Certification the run presenter - George Dallam used the POSE Method as his running form model. It seems that George, Joe Friel & USA Triathlon have adopted this method. Last year I had a plantar fasciattis situation which evolved into a damaged fat pad under my heel. As an elite age group athlete my running is my strongest event & it seems that I have lost that edge. For all of these reasons I sought out Dr. Romanov. Keep in mind I am only attempting this for 1 week but the transition from a heel striker to a BOF (ball of foot) striker will be a slow process. This is the perfect time of year to attempt a transition like this. The running style is based on controlled falling. A forward lean of 5 degrees for starters, landing right under your body mass and pulling your leg as if you are trying to kick yourself in the butt is what the technique is about. Nicholas did alot of videotaing of us. I worked with him for 2 days & now I have to try to incorporate this different style of running into my life. I anticipate that the change will be slow & take time but I believe that with patience I will be able to regain my speed, endurance and be able to run with much less or even no chance of injury. There are several POSE Instructors out there who know a good deal more than I do. It is my intention, if it turns out that this works, to become a POSE Instructor and incorporate that into my Triathlon Coaching.

My xc coaches work with this method and Friel gives a brief overview and recommends in in "The Triathlete's Training Bible". I think its a good method.

I haven't had the chance to change my default form too much and I can't hold it for very long because my form is really bad(heel striker, somehow I don't even use my glutes at all and hardly my calves...). But when I hold it for a stride or two I feel smooth and fast for once(instead of bumpy and flappy and not as fast). Makes me think and hope, Boy would I love to break 20 for a 5k at the end of tri...

I haven't read the pose book(probably will sometime), but according to coach, the basic gist of it is lift your heel straight up (kind of following the line of your other leg), then lift you knee up towards your chest. And when you're putting it together with running, have a 5-10 degree forward lean --depending on speed -- and land on the ball of your foot. You can practice it one foot at a time either in place or walking with the other foot. When you're running it kind of feels like your falling and catching yourself (but your not really falling as that would be wasted vertical movement) then quickly moving your leg up and forward. I find that I keep my legs a lot more in front of me that I used to -- and that's a good thing.

Pose has already been described. Letting gravity assist you in a "controlled fall."

I know people who've changed to Pose with great success, and others where it didn't work for them. Theoretically, Pose should work for everyone, but it might not, depending on how long you've been running, but it's worth a try.

About those shin splints and your running form--one thing that can help everyone learn to run faster is to do strides--short bouts of "quick" (NOT ALL OUT) running where you are conscious of your total running form, but particularly cadence (I posted something about run cadence someplace else here). Running with shorter, quicker strides can help anyone get faster.

I'm doing 5 runs per week now, and 3 of them include strides. I warm up for 10 minutes real easy running, then do 10-16 of 30" quick running (count your steps) followed by 45" of walking. It's kind of like intervals, but much easier on your body. Then after the strides, run at a "steady' pace (nice aerobic, again not all out) for 10-25'.

What happens over time is that you establish the neural memory of running quickly, and it becomes a habit, and you can do it for longer and longer periods, and voila! You are faster.

If you're already fast, strides still benefit you because they remind you of the correct cadence and other good things.

Pose is not only the controled falling, but it incorporates other "standards" of good running form.

The Jack Daniels book isn't so much about run form as just evaluating your run fitness (it's great for that--I have put the VDOT charts into a spreadsheet--email me back channel if you want them) and knowing what speeds to run for various types of training. If you are a relatively fit runner, you can use the VDOT chart to extrapolate one race distance speed to other race distances. But don't try and use the training plans as is if you are training for triathlons--they should only be used as guidelines for a "run focused" segment of your training.

As a triathlete, if you can do a strides run, tempo and long run (and a brick run when you get about 6-8 weeks out from a race) each week, it will do wonders for your run speed. Consistency and frequency of runs are key, not necessarily high mileage.

Don't be lulled into thinking doing lots of brick runs is a good thing. Bricks require more recovery than other workouts, and if you're running frequently, and you just acknowledge that it never feels "quite right" to run off the bike, then you'll realize you don't have to do so many bricks. Once a week is enough. 2-4 miles is enough (unless you are highly advanced and a Kona qualifier). If you're running 4-5 x per week, and one run is a brick, that should be fine.

Off my soapbox for now....

For those going back through the archives like I am I thought I would post this...

I just spent the last two months revamping my form and it has really helped me. I read a ton from a lot of different sources (I didn't buy the Pose book, but found several articles summarizing the technique...eventually I probably will buy the book to help refine my technique). Here is a summary of things to do that I have changed to make my running much faster:

1) Land on the ball of your foot, not the heel (this naturally made me get the 5% lean the Pose technique is all about. This also helps you run with less injury because your leg is using it's joints as a natural shock absorber.
2) Lift your feet; this causes your leg to be a shorter pendulum and therefore makes your running more efficient. This also (at least for me) allows my knee to shoot forward powerfully which is another common technique I ran across in several places.
3) Try to allow your foot to land on the ground directly beneath you. This is pretty natural once you get comfortable with #1 above. When you reach with your foot in front you are actually putting on the brakes with each step. If you're a heel lander it makes it even worse.
4) Use your arms to help propel you. There are several techniques, but I would suggest experimenting yourself or googling for "running technique". Also, upper body strength training helps with this. Also, even if you don't do active arm technique, just holding them compact and a little active (not totally relaxed) it should help you run more efficiently because you aren't losing momentum in your jello arms.

Take everything in this post with a grain of salt...I am not an elite athlete nor a professional coach. However, all of the above has helped me immensely in my amateur running.

Here are some sites I found and enjoyed on my quest for info on running technique:

these are some articles about pose:
http://www.posetech.com/pose_method/technique.html
http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1608/is_9_19/ai_106652958
http://www.trymysport.co.uk/pose_running.htm

this site has a online book "Running Fast and Injury Free" by a former world record holder Gordon Pyrie (very interesting although he comes across as a grumpy old man in several sections; I took the things he said with a grain of salt) Chapters 2 and 3 are the most pertinent:
http://www.gordonpirie.com/

lastly, if you're really crazy (not unlike myself) you can look into running barefoot (like most of the rest of the non-Western world). I've started experimenting running barefoot and really love it. I can't do it in my training yet though because it is already too late in the season. However, hopefully around the end of August after the Pikes Peak Marathon, I'm planning on at least trying to go barefoot 100% (we'll see how it goes).

http://www.runningbarefoot.org/?name=RunningTechniqueToeVSHeel2000April23Lakins
http://www.runningbarefoot.org/?name=HowRunBarefootOtherwise2001July29Saxton

Anyway, read up and start trying things for yourself. If they work for you, GREAT! If not, oh well...you tried. If you seem to be stuck in a rut (like I was), doing more of the same definitely won't help you.

kddubb

I've got the Pose DVD.. ITs pretty interesting.. I still havent gotten to the point where I have it all memorized so that I can just go out and try all the excercises.. And im not gonna go out running with my laptop haha..

There's quite a bit to it.. But if it works for me, I will be very happy.. I am still a newbie, so I dont really have a permanent running stance/method yet.. That may help me learn it easier.. i dont know.. I guess i'll find out soon enough

If you really want to know about running see the obituary of my friend Emilio Zatopek http://newtimes.rway.com/2000/121300/bodymind.shtml this guy had desire.

George Park www.swimdownhill.com

kddubb and others,
I'm so glad I found this thread! I am such a beginner, in fact my first tri is 5 months away from Monday. I have run one 5K, did it in 31:34 and loved the feeling of completing it. I am nervous about all of it, but excited as well. I always feel like I am lumbering around when I run, maybe this is just the technique I need. Thanks for all your info. I appreciate any input as well. Do you think I'm crazy doing a tri in 5 months from really no experience?

Thanks again,
Shell

Most articles re. the Pose method refer to Zatopek. If you want to see him run it is on this site
http://www.runningpast.com/vintage_media.htm

George Park www.swimdownhill.com

kddubb and others,
I'm so glad I found this thread! I am such a beginner, in fact my first tri is 5 months away from Monday. I have run one 5K, did it in 31:34 and loved the feeling of completing it. I am nervous about all of it, but excited as well. I always feel like I am lumbering around when I run, maybe this is just the technique I need. Thanks for all your info. I appreciate any input as well. Do you think I'm crazy doing a tri in 5 months from really no experience?

Thanks again,
Shell

hey shell,

you gotta start somewhere... i logged in to this website just 2 1/2 months ago as a beginner and did my first sprint tri last weekend. i didn't do so great in the swim ( i got hit in the head pretty hard- which threw me off ), but the other two legs i held my own. so i say... go for it! you won't regret it!

the pose method is interesting. i just went to dr. romanov's running seminar this past weekend. i am trying to incorporate some of his methods in my running as i have old injuries that keep surfacing. i would look into it if you have the time. he does have a video as well as a book.

Amy Lee
Thanks so much for the encouragement! Congrats to you on your first tri!! I''m sorry you got hit though!
How long did you train for your tri? And how is your head now?

I am very interested in the pose method and tried a few of the techniques, though I'm sure I did them wrong, today. I will try to get as much info a I can and keep incorporating it into my runs. I wish they had a seminar close to me....

Thanks again,
Shell

shell,

the running and cycling weren't issues to me- as i have enjoyed these two sports off and on for many years. i started running five months ago (4 months post-partum) to train for a half marathon. along the way ( early february ), i got injured and decided to incorporate cycling and swimming in to my exercise regime. at that point i guess i actually set my sights for a sprint tri and officially started training. so although i have been running since december, the cycling and swimming i've only been doing about 3 months. i've been spending most of my training time in the pool as i am not comfortable in the water and soooooooooo not a fish! i joined a great tri training team which i found to be key! you might want to join one in your area.

my head is fine now. i have had quite a few laughs about my first tri now. i'm just chalking it up to "experience" now.

the pose seminar was interesting. don't get upset about not being able to attend one though. he's russian and speaks with a very broken accent. i had trouble understanding much of what he was trying to say. i think you might fare better with his book or his video.

good luck!

btw, just a few additions to my former post.

First, don't try to figure ALL the technique out at once. Add each thing to think about in stages. If you try to do too much at once, then nothing goes right. I started by just trying to focus on where I landed on my foot the first week. Then, started working lifting my feet. Then, tried to make sure my foot was landing beneath me. Just lately I've been working more on high cadence. I'm just starting to try out more active arm techniques and it has been almost two months...so be patient.

Second, if you're drastically changing your form like I did, it is going to make you really sore and tired at first. I went from being able to run 15-20 miles on the weekend no problem to barely being able to run 3 miles at any time during my first couple weeks. My calves especially took time to acclimate to the new technique. Again, be patient especially with the mileage. Eventually, you'll climb back up to your standard mileage, but it may take a few months to do it properly.

Lastly, the other thing I forgot to mention on technique is to keep your cadence high...see this article for more info on cadence:

http://www.trifuel.com/triathlon/run/proper-running-form-000599.php

Just a little inspiration, I just ran a 14+ mile run this weekend, my longest since changing technique (I never really know the distances because I'm usually on trails out in the boonies) that is an out and back. It gains about 2000 feet on the way out and obviously drops on the way back. Throughout the run I kept a cadence of about 90 strides per minute. On the way up, I noticed that when I just relaxed and worked on my form, it was easier and I started running faster...especially uphill. I ran about 2-3 minutes per mile faster than my normal pace on the way up. Even on the way down, I ran about a minute per mile faster and at the end of the 2 hour run my knees and hips felt great. Normally, my joints would be killing me. If I wasn't a believer before, I am now.

About a year ago, I bought the whole Pose package--DVD, books, stretch cords, and thin shoes (Puma h Street). I was drawn to Pose due to injuries and their claim that you can be injury free. I am a fairly fast runner at 5k but a very heavy runner at 200+ lbs and my weight was taking a toll on me.

My journey. I started running this method and first experienced extreme calf and foot soreness. It has taken probably a good 6 months for my calves and feet to develop. The muscles and connective tissue from the knee down is put under a tremendous amount of stress that it does not endure with the heel strike. (Interesting to note that all my injuries as a heel striker were from the knee up and all my injuries with Pose were below the knee.) A few months into only running the Pose Method, I injured the ball of my foot from stepping on a rock while wearing thin soled shoes. Stupidly, I continued to run and really messed it up. The injury forced me to get off my feet for a few months and look elsewhere for physical fitness (and that is why I am into triathlons now). I believe the BOF injury was caused from breaking or jerking on the ball of my foot. I was allowing too much weight to slide forward on the ball, and with a rock there, I ended up with an injured foot. The idea of the Pose Method is to pull your foot off the ground as quickly as possible as if running on hot coals. It was a painful but beneficial lesson. I think it has literally taken me a full year to get to a point where I think I am only fairly efficient with the Pose Method.

As a previous post mentioned, the barefoot website is pretty interesting. The concepts of Pose and barefoot are basically the same. I even think you can learn to run on the BOF faster if you run barefooted becuase you will have more feedback of how your foot is landing. Beware that you take it slow and gradual if you decide to go barefooted. It is easy to overdue it and end up with bloody blisters. But at the same time, the bloody blisters tell you that you are doing something wrong and you can make corrections.

My success story: As a Marine, I am tested with a 3 mile run every six months. Using just some of the Pose Method, I was able to finish under 18:00 (sub 6:00 miles) within a month of starting Pose. I am only now (one year later) slowly building miles and I am finally injury free...as long as I do not overtrain.

I am a dyed in the wool BOF, non-heel striking runner and I am not looking back. I cannot run heal strike anymore even if I try.

David

I am having such trouble with Pose.. I keep landing on my heels.. its been hard for me and what's scaring me is that I have races planned for the summer and I am not sure how to go about this.. Do I train with Pose and possibly sacrifice my running times? Its almost like learning to run all over again. I have a half ironman planned for july and I am wondering if I will at least be able to learn the basics of Pose by then to actually finish the run at least.. And I dont want to mix both of my running methods together either.. Is anyone else experiencing the same or has before?

It was hard for me (at least it felt really weird) to land on the balls of my feet (in fact I still have regressions a couple months later). As you stick with it your feet should eventually adjust. You might try running barefoot in a grassy park to get a better feel of it. All the material I read recommended changing in the off-season. Some of your trouble might be caused by trying to keep your same training schedule while changing. Since your half ironman is coming up in a couple months, it may do you more good to wait and have the whole off-season this coming winter to get used to the new technique rather than trying to force your body into new positions it's not used to too quickly. Of course you might also be on the verge of breaking through and getting the hang of it. I guess I would end by saying that if you think it is late enough in the season that you can't afford to have your training to come to a stand-still while changing technique, wait until the off-season.

Try book The Triathlete's Guide to Run Training or the video Evolution Running: Run Faster with Fewer Injuries. Both cover running technique in great detail. www.EvolutionRunning.com Ken