Just like my bike post about improvements I've gain in speed, I had another one of those days, that made me reflect on how far I've come in my running pace. I had a 2hr run, and had to maintain a heart rate right in my aerobic zone. I peeled off 6:50's for 2hrs, at a HR 26 beats below my LT!!! Again, it made me reflect back to my first 1/2 marathon 5 years ago, where I trained my butt off, and raced hard, and ended up with a 7:10 pace. So what happened over the last 5 yrs.:
(side note: I swam all through high school and college, at 21 I didn't do anything aerobic in nature for 9yrs, so I probably have the aerobic network in place from all those years gasping for air every single day. In terms of body structure, I'm built to run, and not swim. Didn't realize this until we had to run a mile for time after my first week of college swimming. I was the worst swimmer on the team, I was not built to be a swimmer, I have small hands, small feet, long legs, and a small torso, which happens to be a great build for a runner. So I guess the way I'm structured allows me to run pretty well)
1. I've been able to run injury free for the last 3yrs. There have been 6 weeks over the last 3yrs, in which I didn't run at all, and this wasn't due to injuries, just required rest.
2. I increased my cadence. I use to run with a cadence in the mid to upper 80's, and now I keep it around 92-95. Quicker shorter strides, due to a more of a forward lean, as opposed to just moving my feet faster. This quicker cadence has decreased the force exerted on my entire body.
3. Consistency. The reason I've been able to maintain my running day in and day out, is by controlling my effort levels with HR (I use HR, pace could be used as well). My slow days are VERY SLOW, my tempo days are STEADY, and my hard days are HARD. I use to run consistently moderately hard all the time, and as a result I was not able to maintain any sort of consistency week/week, due to fatigue and overuse injuries. Slowing down was a hard pill to swallow. The old guys in the neighborhood were blowing by me.
4. I strengthened my core. I had to get my hip adjusted weekly, due to a pelvic tilt, this would put tons of strain on my hammies and quads. After a year of doing a core routine once a week (abs, back, hip flexors, piriformis, abductors/adductors, all with resistance cords), my pelvis is rock solid. My tilt has not been an issue all year. Having a strong core, allows for a stronger stride.
5. Long runs. Easy/Steady long efforts, so important. Too much to get into, the human body is amazing in its ability to adapt to longer efforts, it just takes time and patience.
6. Lost weight. Free speed=Fat loss. Every pound of extra fat, corresponds to 3sec/mile. Lose 20pds, lose a minute off of your pace.
7. Hill bounding. Great way to strengthen your stride. Run up a hill (should take a minute) as fast as you can, but use the longest stride as possible, at the quickest cadence possible. You will look like a complete idiot, but very effective. You should feel like/look like a triple jumper. Take a 3min easy jog, then run down the hill as fast as possible with the shortest/quickest stride as possible. Start with just 4, and increase every week up to a max of 9 (BE CAREFUL, this is quite stressful)
After a set of three, do 2 15sec wind sprints.
Thanks for the info, VJ!
Thanks for the info, VJ! Although I've gotten better lately with having a purpose for each run, I still feel like my pace is too similar between slow, tempo and hard. Any way you could provide some numbers for avg pace and avg distance for slow, tempo and hard? I find myself breaking my runs into these categories:
Long trail run (pace doesn't matter, but I'm usually out 2-5 hours on a Saturday)
10 miles tempo (7:00 pace, a couple times a week)
10 miles aerobic (8:00 pace, once a week)
speed work (repeats of 1/2 mile, these are few and far between)
Basically, aside from pace at each distance, do the distances vary too?are tempo and easy runs ok being the same distance, just at different paces? Or should an easier run be easier pace and easier distance?
@pstew. I can better answer
@pstew. I can better answer your question if you could post your current 5K time. Not your PR, but the most recent 5K race time you have.
I've actually never raced a
I've actually never raced a 5k... My most recent 10k (a few months ago) was at a 6:20 pace. So this maybe would equate to a pace of 6:00ish? for a 5k. Just a guess though. Is it bad that I've never raced a 5k haha
Incredible! Now I just need
Incredible! Now I just need to know how you improved your swimming pace and I'll have the trifecta! (unless you are still just banking off your past swimming experience)
Thanks a ton, I will definitely be using some of these tips as I am currently using your bike tips and they are great!
You guys are fast! Hard work
You guys are fast! Hard work pays off. I'm getting there.
pstew85 wrote:Thanks for the
[quote=pstew85]Thanks for the info, VJ! Although I've gotten better lately with having a purpose for each run, I still feel like my pace is too similar between slow, tempo and hard. Any way you could provide some numbers for avg pace and avg distance for slow, tempo and hard? I find myself breaking my runs into these categories:
Long trail run (pace doesn't matter, but I'm usually out 2-5 hours on a Saturday)
10 miles tempo (7:00 pace, a couple times a week)
10 miles aerobic (8:00 pace, once a week)
speed work (repeats of 1/2 mile, these are few and far between)
Basically, aside from pace at each distance, do the distances vary too?are tempo and easy runs ok being the same distance, just at different paces? Or should an easier run be easier pace and easier distance?
[/quote]
Unless you're training for ultras, there is no need to ever run 5 hours. At 8 min pace, you're finishing a Marathon in ~3:30, and that's about the effort you should be running your long runs. As a rule, long runs and easy runs should be about the same pace, 1:30-2:00/mile slower than your 5k/10k pace but vary in distance. Tempo should be 20-30 sec/mi slower than race pace over that distance.
From what I can gleam from your posts, you're running 50-ish miles/week and racing longer distances, so you should be doing some sort of speed work at least once a week, 2 would be good to shoot for. Mix it up a little bit with one day being longer efforts (e.g. 3 x 2-miles @ 6:00/mi with 4-6 min recovery) and one day being shorter and focused on speed [e.g. 10 x 1/2 mile in 2:50 (5:40/mi) with 1/4 mi jog recovery]. If you're planing to race more towards the 10k side of the spectrum, pick up the pace a little and take a longer rest or recover with a walk. The day after these sessions, have a nice easy recovery run @ 8 min pace but shorten it a little bit (5-6 miles). No need to run 10 miles of recovery as it will still beat up the legs a bit and prevent you from getting good rest leading up to your next speed session (tempo runs count as speed sessions, but don't need to be done twice a week unless you're varying distances and efforts).
Currently your training looks like mid to late base building and not really race focussed. Which is fine if you don't have any important races coming up or you primarily run half marathons and up. But a lack of speed work is certainly hindering you from seeing your potential.
@xc800runner... i was
@xc800runner... i was focused on ultras this summer. trained for leadville 100 and a 50 miler. my training was relatively unstructured, with the most important thing being my long hikes/runs on the weekend. this seemed to work well for that distance. but i'd like to qualify for boston in the spring. right now i'd be right around the 3:10. but that isn't guaranteed to get me in anymore.
thanks for the advice thus far!
Recovery:
Recovery: 8:22-9:11
Aerobic: 7:33-8:06
Tempo: 7:00-7:33
The above paces are from a QT2 calculator, and then you have the McMill Cal
http://www.mcmillanrunning.com/cgi-bin/calc.pl
When you get faster, you need to input new data. When you train with paces, you need to know when to change the paces to further stress the body. If you just do your long runs at a 7:15 pace, for the whole season, you will actually lose fitness. So if you are going to train by pace, you need to get race effort data to plug into calculators so it changes your pace zones based on current fitness.
With HR based training, you never have to test
My base weeks are straight Recovery, and Aerobic work. Build is when I add tempo and hill bounds, and when I'm about 8 weeks out from a race I start the race specific work, just like xc800 outlined. Longer hard efforts, shorter super fast efforts, and then a long run, with recovery runs in between.
http://www.yourmarathontrainingplan.com/free-marathon-training-plan/
These plans will show you the sequence of recovery, aerobic, and tempo, and also base, build, sports specific work
Recovery:
Recovery: 8:22-9:11
Aerobic: 7:33-8:06
Tempo: 7:00-7:33
The above paces are from a QT2 calculator, and then you have the McMill Cal
http://www.mcmillanrunning.com/cgi-bin/calc.pl
When you get faster, you need to input new data. When you train with paces, you need to know when to change the paces to further stress the body. If you just do your long runs at a 7:15 pace, for the whole season, you will actually lose fitness. So if you are going to train by pace, you need to get race effort data to plug into calculators so it changes your pace zones based on current fitness.
With HR based training, you never have to test
My base weeks are straight Recovery, and Aerobic work. Build is when I add tempo and hill bounds, and when I'm about 8 weeks out from a race I start the race specific work, just like xc800 outlined. Longer hard efforts, shorter super fast efforts, and then a long run, with recovery runs in between.
http://www.yourmarathontrainingplan.com/free-marathon-training-plan/
These plans will show you the sequence of recovery, aerobic, and tempo, and also base, build, sports specific work
VJ and others: A couple
VJ and others:
A couple years ago, I was a decent runner (6-6.15 pace for 13.1 road race). Now that I am doing more triathlons my running is getting weaker (8 min pace). I can't seem to improve speed/endurance while running 2-3 days a week. During the off season, how would suggest I improve my running while not loosing my biking strength (which has been steadily improving)?
IOW, does it make sense to run 4-6 days a week and bike 1-2 days?
Other ideas?
Another question: I have
Another question:
I have been using my swimming metronome to help my running cadence. HUGE HELP. I feel like I am putting so much less stress on the legs and while being "forced" into better form.
It is easy to adapt at higher speeds. But, under 8min pace it is very difficult to have 180 strides per minute. Do you try to have 180 at slower speeds? Or do you only use cadence training on tempo runs and intervals?
jemanuels Q#1: I can't wait
jemanuels Q#1: I can't wait to hear the answer from the experts.
jemanuels Q#2: I'd never thought of using the swim metronome. If you need something more melodic, you can download podcasts from PodRunner or MotionTraxx, for free, that are geared to specific cadences.
@jemanuels, high cadence is
@jemanuels, high cadence is more difficult at slower paces. I'm usually 90-93 on runs, and 85-88 on recovery runs. I find the slower I go, and more I tried to get my cadence up above 90, the more I would run off of my toes, which caused more strain on my achilles/calf
So I wouldn't worry about a higher cadence on recovery runs. The last thing you need is two different forms when running, one a fast run form, and the other a recovery run form. It is more important to keep everything consistent, even if it means bringing the cadence down.
I've recently improved my
I've recently improved my 13.1 times from hoping to break 1:40 to now I'm flirting with times in the low 1:2X's over the past 2 years. When I started out trying to improve 2yrs ago I was told about the magic 180 spm rate and immediately starting running with various metronome rates on repeat on the ipod. I started at 165 spm, and then tried slowly increased over weeks to 180. I found that I was exhausted on 'easy' runs trying to keep up with the beat and couldn't run slower then ~7 min miles. I was discouraged at first but kept at it for almost two months waiting for adaptation to take place, but it never got easier or felt better. So I ditched the metronome and went back to the drawing board.
In order to run at a high turnover you need to have a very short contact time with the ground and that isn't possible with the way I was running (and I think a lot plodders do this as well). This is normally hard to explain without drawing a picture, but you need to think about the angle between your foot and your lower leg when you foot hits the ground. With my old form, my foot would hit the ground with lower leg behind the ankle (so angle between foot and lower leg is >90deg). Once the foot is flat on the ground, momentum has to carry your body forward until your leg is now ahead of the ankle (<90deg to the foot) so that you can push off. This pause waiting for your body to move past your foot wont allow you run at a high stride rate. When I was using the metronome running like this I needed to really use my hamstrings to pull my leg and foot back immediately after pushoff so I could stay ahead of the beat.
I changed my stride (over a period of time) so that when my foot is planted, the lower leg is already ahead of ankle (<90 deg to the foot) and I can lift my foot off immediately after touching the ground. When you run like this, it feels like your foot is already heading backwards before it hits the ground or its described as a gentle pawback motion with your foot. This is how fast runners look like they are just gliding over the road with their feet barely touching the ground. Minimizing contact time not only will make it easier to run comfortably at a higher stride rate, but it allows you to harness some of the elastic forces in your tendons (free energy that doesn't get tired). Also IMHO lower contact time is easier on the body and I've run consistently for 2yrs now vs being injured all the time with my old form.
So I completely agree with vjohnson's list above, I just wanted to add a bullet for running with proper form too. Consistency is key so if your constantly battling time off from injuries, look at improving core strength (yes there is a good chance your knee problems are being caused by weak pelvis / hip / core issues) and look at your running form, it could be limiting your potential.
VJ wrote:Consistency. The
[quote=VJ]Consistency. The reason I've been able to maintain my running day in and day out, is by controlling my effort levels with HR (I use HR, pace could be used as well). My slow days are VERY SLOW, my tempo days are STEADY, and my hard days are HARD. I use to run consistently moderately hard all the time, and as a result I was not able to maintain any sort of consistency week/week, due to fatigue and overuse injuries.[/quote]
+1 to this. I think this concept is hardest to actually do when training, but has huge benefits when implemented.
Thanks for the excellent
Thanks for the excellent suggestions, vjohnson. Just printed out your post, which is going into my "permanently relevant" file along with your earlier thoughts on bike improvement ("18mph to 24mph, how I did it").