Last night I had to do my first hard bike session of the year, and as I was cruising along I decided to change the view on my computer. I never look at pace/speed, it messes with my head too much, so I just ignore it. But yesterday, I was feeling pretty good. For the last :30 of my 2hr bike ride I road pretty hard (under LT), and averaged 24mph, and that got me thinking.
When I got home, I looked up my first Olympic tri back in 2005, and on a road bike, I covered the distance in 18.3 mph, and remembered feeling like I was going to die (I swam a 20:00, and ran a 45:00). I raced the same course last year, and averaged 25.7 mph, swam under 19, and ran the 10k at a 6:10 pace. The last 6 years have been such a blur, and for once in a long time I took the time last night to see where I was when I started, and wondered if I could share with you what I did. This isn't a brag session, I just remember dreaming of going faster than 18mph in an Olympic distance race, and now I do and this is how:
1. Lost 40pds, if you need to open a package to get your food, think twice about why you are going to eat it. It as much as you want, just be sure it is "real"
2. Sold all my "toys", aero wheels, aero bottles, powermeter, etc, and got a Computrainer, it is actually fun to ride inside now. (I live in ME, so I have to put in a few months inside)
3. Consistency. In the last three years, I've never gone more than 3 days without getting on my bike.
4. One long ride a week, early in the year its about 1:45, but it will get up to 5-6 at my peak.
5. My mid week rides use to be in the 15-25 mile range, but now they are in the 35-60.
6. TABATA's. 20seconds all out at a 60rpm, 10 second rest. Repeat 10 times
7. Hard efforts at the end of long rides.
8. Proper fueling
9. Got a coach, sold my 2grand wheels, used the money to pay a coach for two years, instead of dropping 30 seconds on the bide course due to a disc wheel, now I drop minutes due to hard guided work.
10. Hit the weights. I was a swimmer back in the day, so I had zero leg strength. At the start of every training cycle I hit the weight room for 12 weeks. I'm doing basic aerobic work at the time, and once I get out of the weight room is when I start dialing up the intensity. Bottom line is, my leg strength has gone through the roof. Leg power in the weight room has directly translated into pedal power on the bike, for me.
Combining a big increase in volume, pushing big gears once a week, and the weight room twice a week on a consistent basis has brought me results I never thought would be in my reach. You can't hide from CONSISTENT hard work, you can look for all the gimics in the world that will make you faster, but it will always come back to putting in the seat time.
So, what you're saying is
So, what you're saying is you doped? Kidding. Let me try again.
So, what you're saying is, hard work? Not buying stuff? Say it isn't so!
Your success is the emobidment of "riding up grades, not buying upgrades" (with a nod to Merckx).
@Trisooner, my ultimate goal
@Trisooner, my ultimate goal in this sport is not Kona, it is to have the fastest bike split on my 1988 steel framed Cannondale road bike, with down tube shifters, fenders and an orange commuter flag sticking off my backend. That would be the day I walk away from the sport.
Unfortunately, once I stopped buying stuff I went faster, it sucks, I still break out in a cold sweat when I see disc wheels. I'm a member of DWA (disc wheels anonymous), and the first step in the program is to sell them
These two really hit home
These two really hit home with me:
6. TABATA's. 20seconds all out at a 60rpm, 10 second rest. Repeat 10 times
7. Hard efforts at the end of long rides.
I've reached a bit of a plateau I fear where I'm able to flirt with 2:30 for a HIM split, but your note was a really good reminder that, unfortunately, to make big gains one needs to suffer a bit on the bike.
That list is fantastic. I
That list is fantastic. I also like that you said it's 6 years in the making. If you are young, I suppose you can hurry these types of gains. I'm finding at 41 hurrying can put you on the sideline.
But..but...I was promised
But..but...I was promised that if I bought a new giro selector I would gain minutes, maybe even hours!
@ big 3, I'm 36 right now,
@ big 3, I'm 36 right now, so I "started" at 30. Rode 6 miles and ran 2 on the first day, and couldn't do it again the next day. I would say I truly "started for real" three years ago, that is when I went OCD about consistency, and training became a full-time, year round job. If you think age is a limiter, it will be. The older you get, the more resistance training becomes essential. Anything you do that kills consistency is not worth doing.
this is exactly the sort of
this is exactly the sort of thread we all like to read: accessible to mortals and concisely clear
thanks for taking the time to self-evaluate and post about it
props to you for the post and for the success!
As a relative noob to the
As a relative noob to the sport I'm still looking forward to the day when my LBS will let me touch the $2k wheels, let alone buy them, let alone sell them for a coach!
Coaching is huge. Even my
Coaching is huge. Even my coach has a coach. Even if it's just for a sounding board or someone else to bounce ideas off of. It's one of the best things I've ever done, plus she's become one of my best friends.
@ Styil, if I make a plan,
@ Styil, if I make a plan, I won't follow it, the conversations between the athlete and coach in my head always has the athlete winning, and doing less then what was suppose to happen. When I'm told what to do, I'll do it, no questions asked. It has actually made the process easier, it just becomes part of the what is expected each day, you work your life around it, you just do what you need to do to get er done. As opposed to watching the Tour de France all morning, then trying to get in a quick workout before work during the summer, when I should have been putting in the miles.
Good stuff and very
Good stuff and very motivating to hear, especially in a day when *we* except everything right now. (I'm hearing the song "I want it all, and I want it now!" in my head)
@vjohnson, I do want to know where you learned all the, for lack of better term, book smarts & by the number stuff. I've been reading a few books(Triathlon Training Bible and Run training for Triathlons) and want to learn more. Things like the running calculator link that has been posted here often is also very helpful. I'm just trying to apply my geek life to my triathlon life....maybe it's something that comes with time as well.
@stephenPDennis, it is
@stephenPDennis, it is called a second job!!! I work from 7-12 on Saturdays at a "outdoor" sporting store, it gives me access to pro-deals through vendors. You pay cost for equipment, the money I make there pays for entry fees, and gear. As a teacher, I have the time to put the work in, but just not the funds, so you just have to be willing to put in some extra hours, for the sick equipment.
vjohnson wrote:@ Styil, if
[quote=vjohnson]@ Styil, if I make a plan, I won't follow it, the conversations between the athlete and coach in my head always has the athlete winning, and doing less then what was suppose to happen. When I'm told what to do, I'll do it, no questions asked. It has actually made the process easier, it just becomes part of the what is expected each day, you work your life around it, you just do what you need to do to get er done. As opposed to watching the Tour de France all morning, then trying to get in a quick workout before work during the summer, when I should have been putting in the miles.[/quote]
+1... Biggest difference in coaching yourself vs. being coached. When you coach yourself you set unrealistic training goals and try to top them week to week, much like a corp. that tries to beat their sales goal qtr. to qtr. Initially it works, but eventually you aren't working at getting faster, your just working at achieving a faster time (hopefully that makes sense).
My path has been a tad different going from 18mph to 23.5 (not quite to your 25mph yet) by way of a PM, but I think the common thing between us, is that we put the gadgets (aero and mph) and work at working hard. Now I use a PM properly (ensuring I adhere to the training standards instead of "oh look what I can do"). My first two years of long rides meant going all out from start to finish on each and every ride just about. Now... I have set intervals during the week where I kill myself and have very very easy spinning in between.
The one sure path to a faster bike split- It's gonna hurt, a lot!
@panda My background is
@panda
My background is Science. I teach Bio and Anatomy&Physiology, so the ground work for the understanding and connections where there, but it hadn't clicked until I became the guinea pig. So I guess, yes it comes with time and experience. You can be book smart, but I think till you truly "experience" something, you won't truly understand it.
@vjohnson - Really good
@vjohnson - Really good stuff. Thanks for relaying the info. I think we are all anxiously awaiting the required follow up: "How I went from 7:30/mi to 6:10/mi on my 10k Oly run split" post!
About the Tabata's.... Did you do this as a stand alone workout, or after your normal "35-60mile weekly rides"?
Wait, what? Maybe I'm
Wait, what? Maybe I'm confused.. I don't coach myself. I totally agree with having a coach. Keeps me responsible to someone. Gear is nice and pretty and fun.. but it's no substitution for a good coach and a solid training regime. Anyway, sorry if I was confusing or confused myself.. sounded like you thought I disagreed.
...thanks for sharing yet
...thanks for sharing yet more wisdom!!! Your threads are so inspiring!
What ironic timing too for thread about benefits of a coach, my former coach has been emailing me trying to hustle me back into a training plan; I think word got back to him I'm wanting to do IMWI and do a sub 12 there.
As for Kona I know in the next ten years I won't earn a spot unless I win the Kona Lottery slot but that former coach thinks he can take me MOP biggest age group to elite front of pack which is half the reason I parted ways with him, unrealistic goals and expectations or simple denial...
P.S. Love the part about the bike, I've thought about getting an old centurion ironman (I had the "Pro tour centurion" of that year) and riding it at Wi while running in vintage nike shoes/run attire complete with swedes retro swim goggles/speedo for swim as a tribute to nostalgia/retro.
Again VJohnson, thats for sharing and inspiring!
@kdupton The more you bike,
@kdupton
The more you bike, the faster you run in tri's. That is why the volume piece is so important, your running leg should be minimally impacted by the bike leg, and this is only done through seat time. My running times at triathlons, are extremely close to my flat out times. The more you bike the more likely, your flat out times will be expressed in your triathlons.
I do Tabata's as a stand along, 20 min warmup, do my repeats, then a 20 min warmdown.
@Styil, no confusion, no worries, I was just stating I suck at being a coached athlete, when I'm the coach.
Very valuable
Very valuable info...definitely a keeper. It's always seemed lame to get carried away early on with expensive bikes/wheel upgrades. Even the worst riders can spend $8,000 on a bike and $3,000 on aero wheels and thereby improve their time, but this says nothing about their abilities or commitment to effective training.
vjohnson wrote:Lost 40pds,
[quote=vjohnson]Lost 40pds, if you need to open a package to get your food, think twice about why you are going to eat it. It as much as you want, just be sure it is "real"[/quote]
For the benefit of me and other fat people on this forum (if there are any), would you elaborate on how you lost 40 pounds? Anything else in addition to skipping packaged food? And did your change in diet coincide with a more serious commitment to tri or other training or were you pretty athletic before the weight loss? Many thanks.
I love you. (am I allowed
I love you. (am I allowed to say that on here?!) What I mean is: thanks so much for sharing that! In these times of "our world" being so dishonest/secretive about how much people train, what they eat, how much they spend/make, what it really takes to be successful etc. It is so nice to have someone come forward and share something "real" with other people.
I am going to once again make some notes from your post. One question I have for you though, why do you say that you "break into a cold sweat when you see disc wheels?"
@tgdineen I'm no freak
@tgdineen
I'm no freak health freak when it comes to eating, I still go all out at times, but I think over the years I've become smarter when I do go off the deep end.
I use to not fuel properly, and would come home from workouts and raid the kitchen. Now when I come back from a long workout the desire to fill/overfill the tank isn't there. I don't eat tons of carbs throughout the day, but hit them hard pre/during/post workouts. I allow my self to cheat, but usually just on weekends, when I'm doing my long stuff.
Beer was a huge caloric intake back in the day, and I've pretty much eliminated that from my diet. I pay much more attention to serving sizes now. I'll grab a bag of doritos (my all time favorite), but I'll just get a small bag, I'll even swing into McDonald's now then, but I'll get a happy meal. I feed the beast, but I don't over feed it. Even when I do grab beer, I'll get a large can, instead of a six pack. Food makes us happy, but too much of it doesn't, because we see the effects in the long run, in terms of body comp.
Putting on more muscle has helped.
Being realistic that I won't look like I do on race day all year long, race weight is an unhealthy long term state to be in, so I know that there are times of the year that I can eat what I want, and also there will be times when I understand that the faster I go come race day, will all depend on body comp.
I try to drink water in between bites of food, it helps to fill me up.
After I finish a meal, I usually want seconds and thirds, but I force my self to wait 15 minutes before I get a second helping, and usually I don't need it.
Most of my excess eating will occur at night, so by going to bed earlier I've curbed that habit. I try to not eat past 7, and when I do I take in water with every handful of Trader Joe's Triple Ginger Cookies.
I don't log calories often, but two or three times a year I will for a week, just to get a visual of what I'm actually taking in based on my habit for the week. That is usually a eye opener, sparkpeople.com is my new favorite for counting calories. Livestrong.com also has a "My Plate" option to track.
Training all year long obviously helps alot too, the big fluctuations in body weight won't occur as much.
@hamletcat.
Disc wheels, and aero equipment in general is cool as hell, and I have a weakness for anything carbonfiber. Just the sound of it, when I pass someone with a disc wheel :) makes me smile on the inside
That's good stuff!
That's good stuff! Someday...
vjohnson wrote:I'm no freak
[quote=vjohnson]I'm no freak health freak when it comes to eating, I still go all out at times, but I think over the years I've become smarter when I do go off the deep end....[/quote]
Enjoyed reading this over a six-pack and Happy Meal with McNuggets chaser...will be heading from 16 to 11 any day now. Really, your path to better nutrition is eminently sensible…results attainable for anyone who simply pays attention to what he eats and makes incremental changes. Thanks for providing the details. --J. Craig
@ tgdineen The less
@ tgdineen
The less processed food I ate, the less I craved it. Now I crave more healthy alternatives, and when I do eat processed foods, the taste (usually high salt, or sugar), just turns my tastebuds off. I can't even touch soda anymore, the sweetness just overwelms me, and it isn't enjoyable. Someone told me once, to break a habit it takes 4 weeks.
I also remembered that when I pack a lunch on Sunday night, I pack for the week. I walk around with a huge shopping bag of food for the week (remember the wresler from Breakfast Club, that is what I feel like). I will not prep anything at night, or in the morning if I need too,I'm too lazy at those times to bother. So I just prep the week at once. I need ready to eat healthy options, if I don't have the option, it is baconcheese burger city at the lunch room.
What vjohnson said is true.
What vjohnson said is true. I have "0" interest in eating any fast food or processed food. Although the initial bite triggers the "pleasure" centers, the fourth or fifth bite results in nausea. The same is true for me with alcohol.
@vjohnson.
[quote]I can't even touch soda anymore, the sweetness just overwelms me, and it isn't enjoyable.[/quote]
You drink sports drinks though, don't you find them too sweet also?
@hamletcat maybe its more
@hamletcat
maybe its more the carbonation of soda, or ratio of fructose to glucose is higher in soda(HFC's in them) then in the sports drinks I use (no HFC's, but ratio might still be high, but lower then soda), not quite sure what they actually are. There are two recipes for the ratios in HFC's, and they are indeed different in sweetness. Glucose isn't sweet (in relation to fructose), fructose is VERY sweet, and I'm not quite sure if maltodextrose (which is a right handed glucose), is sweeter then its left handed hommie (glucose).
A local burrito joint in town sells "Mexican Coca-Cola", if you buy Coke in South/Central America it has cane sugar in it, instead of HFC's, now that is soda I can drink, it is so smooth.
vjohnson
[quote=vjohnson]@hamletcat
maybe its more the carbonation of soda, or ratio of fructose to glucose is higher in soda(HFC's in them) then in the sports drinks I use (no HFC's, but ratio might still be high, but lower then soda), not quite sure what they actually are. There are two recipes for the ratios in HFC's, and they are indeed different in sweetness. Glucose isn't sweet (in relation to fructose), fructose is VERY sweet, and I'm not quite sure if maltodextrose (which is a right handed glucose), is sweeter then its left handed hommie (glucose).
A local burrito joint in town sells "Mexican Coca-Cola", if you buy Coke in South/Central America it has cane sugar in it, instead of HFC's, now that is soda I can drink, it is so smooth.[/quote]
That is interesting. I can't drink powerade or gatorade, but I have had great success with eload. I don't really know the details about the sugar ratio. I am trying a new one called eload fly which seems to be good. It is starchier than other sports drinks I have tried, so maybe that has something to do with it.
Vinny, The question I would
Vinny,
The question I would ask is why have you not taken it to the next level, are you winning your age group races? and have you qualified for the world championships? My best friend started his triathlons at the same age as you and within 3 years he qualified for 70.3s in Florida and after 5 years he had qualified for Kona.
I agree that its the training and the legs that produce the power that count but to say upgrades are a waste of time is nonsense. If I were to show him this thread he would laugh and say that he averages over 25 miles an hour, but I imagine that is helped by top of the range equipment.
I do agree with much of the above, and im sure that many of you will be irked by my response but I don't agree with the need to throw away kit that is proven to make you go faster. There is no substitute for training and upgrades are only of benefit if you put the miles in.
Rob
@robmatthews I haven't
@robmatthews
I haven't really thought about why I do it, but I guess it is to inspire others. It sounds super corny, but I feel like a positive influence when my students see me riding to work coming from the pool, in the weight room during lunch, and then running home. I think ultimately I want to coach, and I feel pressure to get a fast resume together.
It looks like I'll be close to a Kona spot this fall, or next summer, but I have no desire to go. I'm nust looking forward to hearing my name called, not saying anything, and then someone else getting a roll down slot.
My point on the equipment front was from my experience early on. I tried to buy speed without working for it. I just regret getting caught up in the scene early on, wasting a few years of weak training, thinking this or that would make me faster
Ok fair one, I admire your
Ok fair one,
I admire your philosophy for multi sport, personally what pushes me is to go as high as is possible in the short window of opportunity that I have, I wished that I had started at your age and not 40 but I didn't. As I am still on the up I will keep pushing and training as hard as I can and any affordable upgrade that helps will be considered. When I can go no further I will back off and enjoy. Good luck for Qualifying.
Rob
vjohnson wrote:@Trisooner,
[quote=vjohnson]@Trisooner, my ultimate goal in this sport is not Kona, it is to have the fastest bike split on my 1988 steel framed Cannondale road bike, with down tube shifters, fenders and an orange commuter flag sticking off my backend. That would be the day I walk away from the sport.
[/quote]
See, now this appeals to me big time!
I have ridden my ~1988 steel Bianchi 4 times at IMC and it has downtube shifters and a triple chainring - makes Yellow Lake less threatening.
It even has a little rust on it. In fact it looks so pathetic that North American Sports gave me a Cervélo P2SL frame, just because they thought I deserved it! (Thank you, Graham Fraser)
In one race, I finished 25 seconds in front of a lawyer from Sacramento (my AG) who was riding a $7000 carbon fibre bike with a powermeter, GPS and a satlink to God.
I wanted to say, but refrained because I'm a gentleman, "How's it feel to be beaten by a guy on a 30 yr old bike with mismatched steel wheels that I pulled out of the dump 5 years ago?"
I loved that moment.
kudos on the progress - ya had me at "I lost 40lbs."
PoC
vjohnson
[quote=vjohnson]@tgdineen
@hamletcat.
Disc wheels, and aero equipment in general is cool as hell, and I have a weakness for anything carbonfiber. Just the sound of it, when I pass someone with a disc wheel :) makes me smile on the inside[/quote]
Kinda makes me think that those of us that have been inspired by this post should kick in $10 each and get him on some carbon for his next race. (racedaywheels have gift certificates?)
Great job on the progress! I
Great job on the progress! I like the basic, consistent approach with no magic bullets. We make ourselves what we want to be. Your turn around and dedication are admirable, especially in today's society, where people seem to relsih their laziness and obesity. Hats off to you!
Mexican Coke is awesome. Our local mexican joint has it. Pepsi does "Throwbacks" with Mountain Dew, Pepsi, and Dr. Pepper. I can't stand regular Mtn Dew anymore, and never really liked Dr Pepper, but the throwback stuff is good. I still limit myself on my intake.
there is hope yet.
there is hope yet.
Warrior wrote:there is hope
[quote=Warrior]there is hope yet.[/quote]
my sentiments exactly....
Trigator should post a
Trigator should post a sequel on how the went from 24 to 29mph. If my memory of his pics are correct, carbon will be involved.
TryScott wrote:Trigator
[quote=TryScott]Trigator should post a sequel on how the went from 24 to 29mph. If my memory of his pics are correct, carbon will be involved.[/quote]
No carbon needed, just heavy doses of bad @$$ness and a little man-up with a liberal helping of talent.
Triguy98 wrote:Great job on
[quote=Triguy98]Great job on the progress! I like the basic, consistent approach with no magic bullets. We make ourselves what we want to be. Your turn around and dedication are admirable, especially in today's society, where people seem to relsih their laziness and obesity. Hats off to you!
Mexican Coke is awesome. Our local mexican joint has it. Pepsi does "Throwbacks" with Mountain Dew, Pepsi, and Dr. Pepper. I can't stand regular Mtn Dew anymore, and never really liked Dr Pepper, but the throwback stuff is good. I still limit myself on my intake.[/quote]
We were in Argentina this Spring and walking down the street on day we stopped in a Locateria (internet cafe) for some empanadas bought a Pepsi. Totally different than here not nearly as sweet. They use cane sugar. Pick up soda now once in awhile at the local supermercado and have discovered the joys of Kosher soda...non of which are made with HFCS.
Wonderful job on your improvement Vinney! And I love steel bikes. Bought a hand made custom built job last year...better than any alloy or CF bike I've owned and still comes in at 17 pounds.
If I ever get a coach,
If I ever get a coach, you're it. Not because you're fast but because of your dispostion.
I absolutely love your post man. None that I look forward too more. Thanks for letting us suck your brains out for free. :)
@Amphibious Anytime!!! I'm
@Amphibious
Anytime!!! I'm not certified, so I don't charge certified prices!!
Really interesting thread
Really interesting thread here,
Can you comment on how you set up the TABATA workout on the Computrainer?
6. TABATA's. 20seconds all out at a 60rpm, 10 second rest. Repeat 10 times
Do you set this up in ERG mode? I was thinking it would be difficult to drop the wattage enough in 10 seconds(to rest) in manual mode before having to max out again.
@jeffgre, I haven't done
@jeffgre, I haven't done them since last fall on the trainer (did a marathon prep for the winter), I think I would either hit the "start" button, which is the pause button, and I think the resistance stops/slows enough. But now that I think of it, I was able to zero in on a wattage that I could get to @60rpm's within 20seconds, it is just the first 5-10 seconds where you feel like you are doing single leg squats instead of pedaling. It isn't optimal, a long slightly inclined road is optimal, but it works.
@vjohnson, That's perfect.
@vjohnson, That's perfect. I'll give it a whirl. Always like to try new things. Thanks for taking the time to explain.
vjohnson wrote:@panda My
[quote=vjohnson]@panda
My background is Science. I teach Bio and Anatomy&Physiology, so the ground work for the understanding and connections where there [/quote]
I could have guessed... You're a machine at the stuff!
Hi I've just completed my
Hi
I've just completed my first triathlon season with some good results. But the bike is a major area I need to improve on. It is not the endurance as much as my run times are near the top.
So to develop my power/strength taking your advice and lifting weight twice a week and fitting in big gear work, intervals etc to boost strength on the bike.
I train about 10-15hrs a week but was wondering how you scheduled these workouts? were you lifting whilst also doing to interval work? I have been combining both during the week and unsure where to lift weights and do intense work in a single session, as DOMS would probably prevent doing either at a good level the next day?
I am thinking alternating between weights and high gear/power sessions one day and easy aerobic the next?
also doing all bike work on a trainer which helps with power, rpm etc as away from my bike until end of may :-(
What I do with respect to
What I do with respect to these issues, is use different types of workouts depending on how I feel. I have done weights and trainer work on the same day. If my legs feel particularly tired I might do a recovery workout (RPE of around 2), if I don't feel as tired I might choose a VO2 max workout where my RPE is a higher (around 6). It isn't really an exact science, but it seems to work for me. I write my own workouts, including intervals of fast spinning, low spinning (high gear), standing etc. It is more of a trial and error thing for me.
vjohnson, can you overview
vjohnson, can you overview your weight routine you use throughout the year? You mentioned that you hit the weights for 12 weeks at the beginning of every year. I totally neglect/minimize weights, and as a result I ride about the same speed as I did 3 years ago.
Lots of Leg Press, Squats, calf raises, and anything that generally obliterates your legs?
I printed this list out a
I printed this list out a while back and have tried to do as many as possible. It's made a difference over the summer. Would also like to know about your weight routine...
I was a swimmer back in the
I was a swimmer back in the day, so I had zero leg strength. At the start of every training cycle I hit the weight room for 12 weeks.