I can't help you with technique, but there is nothing sexier than a man doing butterfly well

my swim coach use to tell us it was like a see-saw. You push down with you chest as your hands enter the water and the hips will naturally rise. Then as your hands move down to the hips you use the kick to get them up and around. It should be like a wave if you do it right. I would recommend using fins to build up your kick and make it a little easier until you get the motion down.

You're sadistic. We use to have to swim butterfly when our coach was mad at us. Most of the time we only did drills (left arm / left arm / right arm / right arm / both arms / both arms) because the stroke itself is so tiring. That may be a good way to start. Focus on the movement of your body (simular to what em_me is describing) and kick. Unlike freestyle, you don't keep your body parallel to the surface of the water. Really you swim like a dolphin. You dive downwards as your hands enter the water in front of you and upwards as your head comes out to breathe (should be close to when your hands exit the water back near your hips). The "serpintine" movement of your body is KEY. If you swim a flat butterfly and bend your knees too much on your kick, it can be hell. You hear triathletes say how technical swimming is (and they're only talking about freestyle) but butterfly is 100 fold more driven by form.

Of course, I was a breaststroker so butterfly was the bain of my existence. Except for the fact that neither is swam parallel to the surface of the water, the two are almost polar opposite strokes.

Good luck. By chance do you like pouring hot candle wax on your bare skin?

[quote=jtrimom]I can't help you with technique, but there is nothing sexier than a man doing butterfly well[/quote]

Easy there Cougar, he's a college boy. I see that you are still experiencing the positive aspects of higher training loads...

I do understand the desire the mix things up a bit to keep it interesting. I would suggest you might want to focus on some backstroke for that. It's a bit more of a compliment to freestyle. But if you really want to learn butterfly for fun and fitness, you might want to look around for a masters swim program. Heck, you might even have something affiliated with the college, or ask the swim coach. He'll have much more local information that might be helpful to you.

[quote=jtrimom]I can't help you with technique, but there is nothing sexier than a man doing butterfly well[/quote]

When I used to lifeguard / teach kiddie swim lessons at the Y, one of my fellow lifeguards would practice butterfly on his break. He was dumber than a box of hair, but oh was he beautiful to watch!

[quote=groovyjen][quote=jtrimom]I can't help you with technique, but there is nothing sexier than a man doing butterfly well[/quote]

When I used to lifeguard / teach kiddie swim lessons at the Y, one of my fellow lifeguards would practice butterfly on his break. He was dumber than a box of hair, but oh was he beautiful to watch!

[/quote]

SEE! It's not JUST my taper energy! it's the TRUTH!!! :)
"dumber than a box of hair" LMAO!

The key To swimming butterfly is using the right kick technique and getting the timing correct. The kick used in butterfly is called the dolphin kick. The best way to think of the dolphin kick is by imagining how a mermaid would kick when swimming underwater. You keep the legs together and you kick them as one unit. You can use fins and practice underwater or you can just practice kicking by doing a series of dives along one length of the pool where you hold your breath and kick just under the surface of the water. Another drill you can do is keep the arms pinned at the side and lead with your head, however I find this much more difficult. Once you can dolphin kick fairly well then you can add the arms. When I start a length of butterfly, I push off the wall in a streamlined position, kick twice and then when my head is ready to come out of the water, I move my arms quickly under water until they are at the side of my body. This thrust gives me enough power to bring my body and head forward and out of the water to breathe. Once my head is up, then I bring the hands and arms up out of the water and around in front of me. Then I dive back under the water gliding in a streamlined position. During the underwater phase I dolphin kick twice and then get ready to come up out of the water again. If you kick twice (2 beat kick) in the underwater phase, it isn't as tiring. It is really hard to describe, but I recommend looking at some videos on youtube. Here is one that is a good example of the dolphin kick.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ac5MqfrAMjw

Butterfly? Why in the hell would you wanna do that? ;)

Oh...and your signature. I love Jens...he is too cool. Used to have a "What Would Jens Do" hat but someone swiped it.

[quote=overcome]Thanks for all the replies so far. I have been trying to work primarily on kick but as soon as I try adding my arms everything falls apart, my kicking just becomes random. Should I be working on just kick until I can do it without having to think at all about it and then add my arms or should I keep trying to do some of the whole stroke along with kick practice?[/quote]
If you can do the kick but then fall apart when you add the arms, I think would I would work on it this: Start at the wall. Dive just under the water, and in a streamlined position, do two dolphin kicks. the come up (hopefully, you can stand on the bottom). Then repeat, from a standing point, dive again, do two dolphin kicks then come up. That will give you the timing of the two beat kick. You can then add the arms more actively to this timing. when you come up to the standing position, bring the arms down to your side. Then when you go to dive again reach out and around so they are in front ready as you dive into the water. If you don't know what I mean, I could try drawing a picture

Just use one arm at a time for the length of the pool. That's the best way to get the motion right.

[quote=Amphibious Triton]Just use one arm at a time for the length of the pool. That's the best way to get the motion right.[/quote]
+1 - A great way to start by learning to feel the proper timing between the kick and the arm stroke.
It's just one of those things that's really hard, then you feel it, and it becomes much easier.

keep in mind that butterfly can be very taxing on your shoulders so take not to injure yourself. i avoid the arm stroke but i do the kick as a drill. if you a struggling with the kick try using short fins to start ? . +1 to backstroke to mix things up. backstroke is strange - i find it relaxing but also a challenge to get the technique right.

Hey buddy you should consult to a professional trainer and get good one and useful advice... I think many of the person's will take help from well trained personal trainer.....

As far as the kick timing goes, start with just kicking and get in a groove, then add just one arm. One kick goes when your arms enter the water, and one on exit.
Kick on the In, Kick on the Out, In, Out, In, Out. No comments from jtrimom, please! ;-)

It's kind of like learning to jump rope double-dutch. You have to jump in with the arms at just the right moment. Doing it one arm at a time is about the only way to learn this. While there's few things sexier than a man doing butterfly well, there's few things sadder than someone attempting butterfly with bad timing. It's more like controlled drowning in that case.

Watch lots of videos, watch the timing. See if you can replicate that with one arm. When you really really really get the one-arm thing down with each arm, then and only then attempt it with two arms.

[quote=Ironmom]\Out, In, Out, In, Out. No comments from jtrimom, please! ;-)

.[/quote]

I am SO proud ;)

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/17/magazine/mag-17exercise-t.html?_r=1

I saw this article and thought of this old post. They aren't listing fast cycling/running paces but they aren't listing the swim pace either. I was just happy to see a thumbs up to swimming being high effort. Also points out that it's a high injury stroke.

The burpee! you have got to be kidding me. I would rather learn how to swim 1000m of butterfly than do that. Right now I can only do about 200m. I find butterfly easier than the breaststroke. All my injuries in swimming have been from BS, mostly from kicking the wall or lane dividers!

[quote=Ironmom]As far as the kick timing goes, start with just kicking and get in a groove, then add just one arm. One kick goes when your arms enter the water, and one on exit.
Kick on the In, Kick on the Out,
[/quote]

Correct. Don't do two kicks then one arm motion, you'll end up tiring yourself out faster because you're using pure upper body strength to get those arms out.

Correct butterfly technique is complete synchronisation of the legs and the arms in terms of timing; its everything.

Step 1: Start with the kick. As with any stroke in swimming, if you can't perform the kick correctly, the rest of your stroke will not be correct.

How: Feet together, don't kick from you knees, but higher up, involve your hips in the motion. Its a fast motion, not slow.

Step 2: One arm at a time. Either put one arm forward infront of you, on a kickboard or without, or by your side while the other arm is stroking. Hand straight out in front, kick, start pull, kick. Repeat.

Step 3: Two left arms, one double arm, two right arms, one double.

Arms start in front, together, streamlined. They move down to your hips (key hole motion if you like), exit the water and take your arms across the top of the water then enter back straight in front of you.

When to breath? Directly after your first kick. Essentially your first kick, the start of the pull, and the breathing happen ALMOST simultaneously. As soon as you breathe, get your head back in the water ASAP. If your head is out of the water while your arms are up, you'll struggle. Guaranteed.

Kick. Pull. Breathe. Kick/Arms out/Arms over/Arms in.

Try to not pull your body up too high in the water; pull yourself forward, not up.

Swimming is best cardio exercise. Swimming burn 120 calories in 30 minutes. Swimming also helpful to build the triceps and biceps muscles.

When learning butterfly, start with the basics. It's the same as when teaching kids. Starting with the kick, introducing sculling and then timing of the pull and kick. There's a number of good programs out there and a good coach should be able to help. It can take some time to become proficient in it, but it's good fun and a hell of a workout!

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