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Yet another tri vs. road dilemma

Tri_Kev's picture
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started by Tri_Kev on August 10, 2009

Okay, I’ve been going back and forth over the last month and read pretty much every archived post on Trifuel pertaining to the topic and host of other articles scattered about the internet. I’m looking to buy a new bike in the next 2-3 months and would like to hear your opinions and experiences to help in my decision making process. First, as way of background I’m currently riding a 2001 Specialized S-Works M-4 (in full Festina colors) that I bought used at the beginning of last summer with Shimano 105. I plan on selling that bike to raise some capital and keep my Litespeed Tellico mountain bike (which is nearing antique status) for fun rides and crappy weather, I’m not sure I’ll ever be able to part with that bike. My total budget is $3,000 which also includes getting an indoor trainer for the winter months. I’m in my second year of multi-sport, last year I concentrated on dualthlons (since I was afraid of the water) and this was my first full year of triathlons (after a winter of swim classes) completing a HIM in July. Next year I have two half’s planned with my eyes set on a full in 2011.

My initial thought was that since “I do triathlons, I should get a tri bike” however after reading the forums and some other research I’m not so sure. The vast majority of my riding is by myself and since I live on Staten Island (one of the 5 boroughs of NYC) I have to deal with lights, stop signs, potholes, glass and various other hazards so my reaction time has to be pretty quick. I’m also not able to train regularly in aero without going out of town since I’m constantly dodging hazards (another reason for the indoor trainer).

My current research leads me to look at the Cervelo S1 with clip-ons or the Cervelo P2 leaning toward the S1 due to its versatility. I’d rather have your impartial judgment instead of the shop trying to put me on a more expensive bike that they just happen to have in stock.

1.) Why are road bikes better at climbing?
2.) Are tri bikes uncomfortable out of aero?
3.) If you have proper clip-ons are the shifters on the breaks or at the top of the clip-on?
4.) Carbon vs. Aluminum
5.) Any other ideas? Of course I’ll get properly fit and that my change my direction yet again.

Thanks

TriSooner's picture
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TriSooner posted 14 weeks ago.

Opions, people, just my opions:

1.) Why are road bikes better at climbing? - Generally lighter and you can actually change gears as you ascend. Novel concept.
2.) Are tri bikes uncomfortable out of aero? I think they are ucomfortable all of the time. But that wasn't your question. If you look at most integrated bars, they have very limited hand placement (mostly because the design assumes you are in the aero position with your hands on the bar ends and you get just a tad bit of real esate to put your hands when you brake). What would be the lateral portion of a road bar is flattened into an air foil which really isn't intended to be held onto. You may have simple bull horns which may have more room for hand placement. But even then the bolted-on arms rests take up a lot of space on the bull horns. Also, you lose all of the benefits of the aero tri bike when you aren't in an aero position. So when you aren't riding in aero, you are stuck (on integrated bars) with mostly one hand position.
3.) If you have proper clip-ons are the shifters on the breaks or at the top of the clip-on?? One benefit of clip-ons is they are designed to work with a road set up with no reworking of any cables, requiring nothing more than a mini tool to attach/detach. With clip-ons, the shifers stay on the road bars, integrated with the brakes. I guess you could re-tro fit them and take the shifter cable out of the Ergo/STI* and thread it to the bar end and keep the brake cable attached to the Ergo/STI, I'm not sure though. That seems like a lot of work.
4.) Carbon vs. Aluminum? - I'm going to leave that one to Sheldon Brown's article on frame material (disregard that he directed it at "touring.")
5.) Any other ideas?? - Try 'em all before you buy.

*Campy Ergo Levers and Shimano STI

PJT's picture
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PJT posted 14 weeks ago.

How much do you think you can get for your Specialized? I ask because you may be way better off keeping that bike for in-city training and day to day riding and adding a tri bike to the stable for racing, riding indoors, and training on safer roads.

jsk85's picture
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jsk85 posted 14 weeks ago.

1) A few reasons that Sooner mentioned along with...your position on the road bike is more suited for cranking up a climb and activates some different muscles. Also, this may not be the case for everyone, but since I am more compact on my tri-bike in general (b/w saddle and cockpit) I have some interference where my knees can contact the cockpit (armrests, particularly) if I climb out of saddle on the tri-bike without thinking about it.

2) I don't think tri bikes are uncomfortable riding the bullhorns, and I have to relatively often to get out to some open space to get down and aero. The shifting not being there is annoying in that case though.

3) not shifters on clipons as stated above

4) not going to touch that...I have an alum roadie (although it's an entry level bike, so I didn't really have options at the time) and a carbon tri bike...love them both in thier own ways

If it's going to be your only road bike (non-mountain)...I'd go with the S1...I certainly wouldn't want to do all my training on my tri bike, especially since it's far less agile and reactive to the road bike and nearly impossible to ride with a group...at least if your group attacks on hills, has some friendly competition, etc...(if they even let you try)

maggiemeans's picture
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maggiemeans posted 14 weeks ago.

Trisooner... can you explain more what you mean by ...
"you can actually change gears as you ascend. Novel concept."

thanks.

Tri Kev: thanks for the good question... i am planning a new bike in the next year... and i was considering a tri bike.. now i am not so sure..

jsk85's picture
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jsk85 posted 14 weeks ago.

maggiemeans wrote:
Trisooner... can you explain more what you mean by ...
"you can actually change gears as you ascend. Novel concept."

What he means is that when you're climbing a steep hill (or a rolling hill if you're not prepared correctly for it/trained to climb in aero), you're going to be riding on your base bar (bullhorns)...which means your hands will have convenient access to the brakes, but the shifters will be at the end of the aero bars. You can definately still switch gears while climbing on a tri bike, but it requires moving your hand out the the shifter and flipping, which can disrupt balance and tempo especially if you're really cranking (exceedingly more difficult if you're climbing out of the saddle, unless you have very solid handling skills or are very quick)...whereas, on a road bike it's a the shifters are at your fingertips while climbing, so shifting is much easier on the fly.

dbos2002's picture
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dbos2002 posted 14 weeks ago.

As usual I think TriSooner is pretty much right on. I definitely agree with PJT, obviously the best case is to keep your road bike and get a tri bike. I can say I love my P2 carbon. However so much of bike selection is personal to your body. If it means keeping your road bike, you could get the aluminum and not be too worse off. Either way, it would suck to ride any tri bike in the city.

- Doran

"Ironman is not just a race, not just a title, its a lifestyle"

dbos2002's picture
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dbos2002 posted 14 weeks ago.

Also, this article may help, Gordo is definitely an expert on anything triathlon/endurance sport related. http://www.xtri.com/features_display.aspx?riIDReport=5838&CAT=23&xref=xx

- Doran

"Ironman is not just a race, not just a title, its a lifestyle"

fastdog5's picture
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fastdog5 posted 14 weeks ago.

jsk85 wrote:
What he means is that when you're climbing a steep hill (or a rolling hill if you're not prepared correctly for it/trained to climb in aero), you're going to be riding on your base bar (bullhorns)...which means your hands will have convenient access to the brakes, but the shifters will be at the end of the aero bars. You can definately still switch gears while climbing on a tri bike, but it requires moving your hand out the the shifter and flipping, which can disrupt balance and tempo especially if you're really cranking (exceedingly more difficult if you're climbing out of the saddle, unless you have very solid handling skills or are very quick)...whereas, on a road bike it's a the shifters are at your fingertips while climbing, so shifting is much easier on the fly.

Yeah, but in all other situations (i.e. non-climbing), the shifters are at your fingertips on a tri bike. With a road bike (with or without clip-on aero bars) you need to reach to shift. Plus, unless a hill is extreme, you shouldn't really need to come out of the saddle to climb. So one vote for the tri bike from me.

I also don't agree that a tri bike is uncomfortable. Any well-fit bike should be comfortable; mine is very comfortable, and it's (GASP!) aluminum.

paganopj's picture
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paganopj posted 14 weeks ago.

Interesting thread and something to think about. I have been trying to decide whether to add clip ons with the flip up rests to my roadie, stay with the traditional road set up, or just swap out the whole road bar setup for a bull horn with clip ons, end shifters and ad a forward seat post....(new bike not an option right now)

Good info...

Just keep spinning....spinning, spinning....uh, do I know you?
The Losing Journey Flickr Cycling Log

Tri_Kev's picture
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Tri_Kev posted 14 weeks ago.

Thanks everyone, once again trifuel proves to be valuable resource. Some very good info and most of it reinforces my thoughts on going for a road bike, although those flashy carbon tri bikes are hard to resist. I'll have to be strong.

PJT - How much do you think you can get for your Specialized?

I'm hoping to get $500, maybe wishful thinking but I actually had some interest already. Plus, although my wife is supportive I'm thinking 3 bikes may be testing her limits. I'm shocked she agreed with the $3, 000 bike, I had a hard time convincing myself!

maggiemeans's picture
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maggiemeans posted 14 weeks ago.

okay - got it thanks....

longhair's picture
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longhair posted 14 weeks ago.

If you plan to ride to ride in your aero bars most of the time, I feel triathlon frame geometry suits you better. If you plan on only occassionally hitting the aerobars, go road geometry. I race on a tri bike, and a buddy rides a road bike with mini clip ons. We are both happy with our setups.

Frame material...generally carbon soaks up road vibrations better than aluminum, but the cost is greater. An aluminum bike is generally lighter, but rides more harshly. A great compromise, in my opinion, is a frame with an aluminum main triangle and carbon fiber seat stays. You lose some of the "aero" advantage of the main triangle, but for most of us that is just aesthetics. You get carbon where you need it for soaking up road vibration, and the stiffness and weight benefit of aluminum through the rest of your frame.

jsk85's picture
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jsk85 posted 14 weeks ago.

fastdog5 wrote:

Yeah, but in all other situations (i.e. non-climbing), the shifters are at your fingertips on a tri bike. With a road bike (with or without clip-on aero bars) you need to reach to shift. Plus, unless a hill is extreme, you shouldn't really need to come out of the saddle to climb. So one vote for the tri bike from me.

I also don't agree that a tri bike is uncomfortable. Any well-fit bike should be comfortable; mine is very comfortable, and it's (GASP!) aluminum.

I agree with you...I wasn't arguing a road bike is better suited for everything...if that's the case I wasted a lot of money on my P2 this year. I was just answering maggie's question about shifting while climbing, in which case what I said is true.

Overall though, you definately get more versatility from a road bike w/ clip-ons than from a tri-bike, so if you can only have 1 or the other...I'd go road. However, if you can manage to have both...all the better. I'm very comfortable on my tri-bike, and love to sit in the aero tuck and hammer, particularly on flats. That being said, my 5 year old aluminum LeMond w/ Ultegra/105 blend (inferior in every way to my P2) still calls to me since it offers a little more freedom and a different experience I can't get on my tri-bike.

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Triguy98 posted 14 weeks ago.

I your situation, living in NYC, I'd go with the S1. I love my tri bike, unlike some others, I don't find them uncomfortable, I can indeed shift on all hills, and my carbon tri bike weighs the same as my aluminum roadie.

Having the shifters at the end of the aerobar isn't too bad, once you get used to it. But in heavy stop and go, I could see it getting tiresome, and a little unsafe. In traffic, I'd very much prefer to have my hands on the brakes.

Comfort on a tri bike is all about the fit and set up. In my experience, tri bikes are infinitely more comfortable in aero position, the way they are intended to be ridden. Just like a roadie isnt as comfortable when you try to get a great aero position on it. You can ride a tri bike on the hoods, but the geometry wants to pull you down into aero.

Geometry is also the reason roadies climb better than tri bikes. The more slack seat tube angle puts you in a better leverage position over the pedals.

My Caliente is my first carbon bike. It is very nice and looks super sexy. But is it smoother than my aluminum Equinox was? Maybe just a tiny bit. To me, it is NOT a night and day thing.

Life is short. Play hard and get dirty doing it.

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PJT posted 14 weeks ago.

Triguy98 wrote:

My Caliente is my first carbon bike. It is very nice and looks super sexy. But is it smoother than my aluminum Equinox was? Maybe just a tiny bit. To me, it is NOT a night and day thing.

I'll second this. I went from a P2SL frame to a P2C this year. Identical geometry, identical components (I just moved them from one frame to the other), and I'm riding just a bit lower in front this year. There is no real noticeable difference in ride comfort, except maybe I don't feel quite as beat up after 100+ mile rides. The P2C has some slight aero improvements over its aluminum cousin, but I think if I were only doing HIM and shorter racing, an aluminum tri bike would work just fine.

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christri25 posted 14 weeks ago.

You could always move off of Staten Island .... Then you could get a TRI bike and get off the trainer.

Chris

``It's not as if I'm going to sit around and be a fat slob,''
Lance Armstrong 2005