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Contador and the tour

SueR's picture
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started by SueR on July 24, 2009

So watching the Tour and listening to the usual drivel that follows it about doping and drafting off motorcycles. Not to say that it isn't invalid stuff, but I like that everyday for a month I can watch a sport I like that isn't hockey or football. Now out comes Greg LeMond and he attacks Contador yet again (cause Lance isn't as fast, so he has to find a new target). I saw this article on Whitfield's blog making some scientific connections to why Contador is maybe doped/maybe not doped and it was an interesting read. Thought it might fuel a discussion...
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/contadors-climbing-credibility-questione...
http://www.sportsscientists.com/2009/07/tour-de-france-2009-contador-vo2...

TriSooner's picture
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TriSooner posted 17 weeks ago.

Try again. Busted links. When the URL gets too long, it is truncated and results in 404. Put [url] before the URL and [/url] after and the entire string will link. I couldn't easily backtrack the CyclingNews article about Contador, so you try the [URL] trick.

http://www.sportsscientists.com/2009/07/tour-de-france-2009-contador-vo2max.html

Gsal's picture
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Gsal posted 17 weeks ago.

try to put < > around each link, because theyre not working. However, without even looking at them, I agree with anybody who says that Contador is doing some sort of doping. Everyone knows that Contador is a natural-born climber, and I truly believe that in past years he was fully clean, just a hard worker. However, in previous years, even last year, Contador was just a middle-of-the-pack time trialist, but he could never be looked at as an amazing time trialist. The guy weighs 60 kilos and is putting out over 7 watts/kg in a time trial like yesterdays. Yet he is beating Fabian Cancellara, who weighs 80 kg!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Thats 140 lbs vs. 176 lbs. Now i'm not saying that a time trial is only based upon the weight of a rider, but with the kind of time trial yesterday (almost ALL flat, with a VERY short climb), it was essentially PERFECT for a guy like Cancellara, and almost the opposite of perfect for Contador. Another example was at Paris-Nice earlier this year in a time trial. There was a 15 km time trial, very flat. For Those who dont know, short and flat time trials are almost always suited towards big guys with powerful legs, essentially sprinters, like Thor Hushovd, or, again, Cancellara. However, Contador, a CLIMBER, manages to out-muscle a guy like Hushovd? Everyone always brings Armstrong winning so many time trials up in this argument, but they dont realize that he gradually built into his form. He didnt go from mediocre one year to World Champion Time Trialist the next. Essentially, Contador did just that.
Sorry for making this so long, but there is NO WAY that Contador isnt a doper...
just my 2 cents

"You can never be too rich or too skinny."
-My doctor

zagfan's picture
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zagfan posted 17 weeks ago.

Unfortunately this is what cycling has come to. If you are on top of the sport the question has to come up about whether or not you are clean. I find it a little funny that cyclists think they can still take the "How dare you ask me about doping?!" approach to the subject. Teams like Garmin that go out of their way to build in transparency in test results and push for clean riders in the peleton have at least made an effort to clean up the sport (or at least give the image of cleaning it up), and I have a little more respect for them.

To be honest my gut tells me, "yeah...that little Spaniard is probably on something." Its the same view I have with baseball, if it looks too good to be true then it probably is. But, that doesn't mean I'm going to stop being a fan, its just sad that doping has to always be at the forefront of conversation during the Tour.

But, I also think that the majority of Americans take a somewhat hypocritical view of our athletes. We are quick to blast someone who is taking a PED (whether cycling, baseball, you name the sport). But if you walk into any gym you will see the full spectrum of "quick fix" dietary supplements that many people use. Whether its to bulk up, lose weight, or have more energy, most people will try anything to get that edge in their life. Now, I understand that most of these products are legal, but does that change the end result. Many products sold over the couner today may be banned in the future, we see it all the time. So if a large portion of society is willing to go to the local GNC and buy whatever the new "Wonder Supplement" is, why would we expect athletes to act any differently? Their careers ultimately depend on it, so for some of these guys its ride in obscurity within the peleton or take a little something and be a GC contender. If you're financial security depends on your riding ability that's one heck of a decision that has to be made. Just saying.

My 2 cents are I think he's on something, but I also think many others are as well.

"Pain is temporary. Quitting lasts forever." Lance Armstrong

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jperubog posted 17 weeks ago.

I wish they would post the number of times a rider has been tested, although tests don't always detect PEDs, at least it allows the average fan to see that a rider in question is being tested enough to avoid suspicion. I remember about a week or so into to Tour, I think it was Phil Ligget commenting about the absurd amount of testing that Armstrong was being subjected to, something like 49 times in the last year and every day since the Tour started(I could be off on that). I wonder if any other riders had been tested that much or more? If its shown that Contador has been tested to the same or even close to that standard without a positive, then shouldn't that go towards removing some kind of doubt?

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Gsal posted 17 weeks ago.

i saw an article on cyclingnews about how many times they've tested each rider from astana, but i cant find the article again. Contador is being tested alot, however, many of the people behind these PEDs purposely make them undetectable, at least, until the UCI and other Anti-Doping Agencies catch up with them. Still, it always seems that cyclists find some sort of drug that is undetectable at the time, but then later on they get caught.

"You can never be too rich or too skinny."
-My doctor

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cjhoffmn posted 17 weeks ago.

Lance posted a tweet this morning about his 11th(!) antidoping test this mornng as his wakeup surprise...

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Tri_it_out posted 17 weeks ago.

Professional cyclists have been doping themselves since the sport began. There's really no way of knowing who is or isn't and it's kind of frustrating because you think to yourself, "There's no way somebody can perform at that level or do what they do without some assistance." But as we know (or like to think), there's no limit/ noone can predict the limits of the hman body or what we can overcome and do. It's really easy to say that a pro cyclist is doping because we're so familiar with it and it's been happening for so long, but to have a little faith in human strength and endurance is also tempting. Also, you can't trust anybody's word anymore; there have been dozens of instances where people have sworn up and down only to be proven a liar later on or break down and confess. So I guess it's just wholly ambiguous and maybe should be. I think testing is good to keep them honest but there will always be those that don't play fair. So, what you don't know can't hurt you and when we can accept that it's going to happen but try to see the honesty and good in everyone, we'll be better off. So we can go through it as cynics or as innocents but I'll be somewhere in between watching these athletes and working hard to catch up. All natural of course.

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xc800runner posted 17 weeks ago.

Gsal wrote:
i saw an article on cyclingnews about how many times they've tested each rider from astana, but i cant find the article again. Contador is being tested alot, however, many of the people behind these PEDs purposely make them undetectable, at least, until the UCI and other Anti-Doping Agencies catch up with them. Still, it always seems that cyclists find some sort of drug that is undetectable at the time, but then later on they get caught.

The kick is that any drug not on the WADA banned substance list or anything that is undetectable or not tested for, by definition is not illegal. Sure, Lance may have been on something in 1999, Lemond in 1987, etc, etc... but even if test methods developed today can determine that one was doped 10+ years ago, unless the drug was, at that time, on the WADA banned substance list, there's no repercussions. What he/she did was not wrong, and we can't fault them for gaining an advantage from PED's.

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tri-ac posted 17 weeks ago.

the IOC has introduced a retroactive doping program for the Olympics. if they develop a test for something after your race, they will redistribute the medals and records

it's a hedgy place to be ethics wise (because if something is culturally acceptable at one time and then moves to banned side of things, the athlete is screwed for trying to play within the rules), but i applaud the good intentions

SueR's picture
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SueR posted 17 weeks ago.

Sorry about the links, gang. The cyclingnews link is in the sport scientist article.
Contador needs to stop dodging the doping questions as well. Nothing spells guilty quite like "next question?". The time trial is the big thing for me. The Chicken (Rasmussen), although doped, could climb but sucked in the TT. Lance never went from middle of the pack to amazing, he was always an exceptional rider and had vo2 max scores off the chart before becoming sick. Lance has been a class act for me this tour, riding for Contador who didn't seem to have any interest in working for Lance imho. All in all, it's been an interesting tour and we loved watching the Schlecks yesterday on Ventoux. I am nervous about the after-tour doping fireworks that usually happen and how they will impact the podium. I can help but think Contador will lose his podium this time.
Cycling has to clean up and maybe it finally is. I have a friend who used to ride in Europe as a climbing domestique for Jeannie Luongo. She would wake up to her coaches trying to inject her as she adamantly refused doping otherwise. Here's hoping these days are over.
Great discussion!