Be ready for open water - a rant
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Anton posted 18 weeks ago.
Well said. I agree and will use your "Can you swim..." as a litmus test when folks ask me. I have seen more and more people struggling in the water lately. I think that it's part of the overall mentality that "Anyone can do it!"
Well...without proper training...even for a sprint, it's not safe.
"If e wishes to sweem in dangerous waters, oo are we to deny im?
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TriSooner posted 18 weeks ago.
There aren't enough [html] tags to highlight how many sections of PJT's post need to be reinforced. Every time someone writes, "I'm scared of the water. Should I do a tri?", there's a resounding chorus of poor advice: "Just do it!" Before anyone spouts that empty marketing slogan again under the guise of encouragement, please read every consonant and syllable of PJT's post. Encouragement takes a backseat to prudence.
PJT wrote:
"Can you do the swim, in open water and unassisted?"
The only thing I'd add is "Can you do the swim in open water, unassisted, with inevitable heavy contact from other swimmers - start to finish?"
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TryScott posted 18 weeks ago.
My wife and I were talking over the weekend about how cautious she is and how careless I am. The conversation left me thinking that I really need to think about risks. A few months ago I did a 5k swim with no swim training/practice in the last year. My previous longest swim was 1.2 miles. Worse than that, I've been urging my brother to do longer triathlons even though he struggled a lot on the 2 sprints. Last month he did his first olympic distance, but again he struggled on the swim. I'll stop asking him to do 140.6 with me this fall.
I feel really bad for the family of the person that died. Please be careful out there.
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brittda posted 18 weeks ago.
TryScott wrote:
My wife and I were talking over the weekend about how cautious she is and how careless I am. The conversation left me thinking that I really need to think about risks. A few months ago I did a 5k swim with no swim training/practice in the last year. My previous longest swim was 1.2 miles. Worse than that, I've been urging my brother to do longer triathlons even though he struggled a lot on the 2 sprints. Last month he did his first olympic distance, but again he struggled on the swim. I'll stop asking him to do 140.6 with me this fall.I feel really bad for the family of the person that died. Please be careful out there.
Yeah BUT I think part of it is once you get the technique down you are ok--I could go out and do the 2.4 miles for an IM any time with no training and still be faster than most out there. You are probably in the same boat with that if your longest swim was 1.2 miles. Most of those people are not proficient with their stroke so they struggle and waste energy.
+10 on knowing your limitations.
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groovyjen posted 18 weeks ago.
I agree that you must be able to swim the distance. But, honestly, can you replicate the mass start experience without a - you know - mass start? Perhaps we could qualify the "go for it" statements with a "but don't be a complete moron."
I think I can, I think I can, I think I can...
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caeagle16 posted 18 weeks ago.
+1, great post. A similar event happened to me at a race last year. Not so much out of shape as inexperience caused many swimmers to cut the course and I was subsequently broadsided by a dude about twice my size, while I was in the top 3 OA... Fun.
Here's how you train for the mass start: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_6tOzt-nfM
Seriously though, great post, and I totally agree.
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amphibops posted 18 weeks ago.
Great post, PJT. Every point is spot on, specifically about lifeguard attention being possibly diverted from a true emergency. Very sad about the man and his family.
I would like to make a point by changing a word in your last line: "if you believe know you can do it...I say go for it." Most people don't run a marathon to train for a marathon, and I'm betting most people don't swim the race distance in open water at some point in training. Yes, that can be difficult to do if you don't have a lake or whatever. But for me and my first race last year, I took the 30 minute drive to a lake to do it for the first time before the race, and it left such an impression on me that I made sure to do it two more times before the race simply so I could be comfortable KNOWING I could make it. Maybe you don't have to do the entire race distance (no less than 75% I say), but at least get out in open water and realize it is significantly different and get somewhere near the race distance. Open water (lake or river) DEMANDS respect.
Finally, I think you should repost your words verbatim on beginnertriathlete's forum. Who knows who's life you might save.
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fpugsley posted 18 weeks ago.
Another person in agreement.
Additionally, I'm not trying to be a jerk in the swim, but if my wave starts not first, I will do my VERY BEST to swim around slower swimmers, but if you are zig-zagging all over the place, be prepared to have people like me swim right over the top of you. You will be underwater for a few seconds. It might be scary. I am assuming you know how to swim and survive in OW. Again, I am not trying to be mean or hurt someone, I am trying to win, and get from A to B in the straightest/fastest line possible.
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kylie posted 18 weeks ago.
While I agree with the rant, don't swim over people. It is your job coming from behind to go around. Sure, there is some bumping and contact. But saying you will just swim over someone is somewhat of a jerk move. On the bike you don't go through people, or on the run. So go around as best you can on the swim as well.
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catwood posted 18 weeks ago.
Great post, PJT! I've done that race before (and was in the last wave --- in '06 I believe)... While the family of the deceased has all of my sympathy, I hope that they don't sue...
The diverting the lifeguards' attention is a big one. I worked as a lifeguard for years and I absolutely spend a greater % of time watching the people who are not proficient swimmers. If there are enough of them, and people clinging to the raft distracting you (Really bad for the lifeguards since it limits their mobility -- should not be encouraged), it gets harder and harder to distinguish between the levels of priorities and recognizing victims, etc... I've never guarded for open water, but I'm sure that even if you are as fully staffed as possible, that it is up there on the stress level with guarding for frat pool parties... My lifeguard instructor brain is making up all sorts of unwelcome scenarios with multiple victims. Triathlon events are surely among the most difficult water events to run safely because there are so many swimmers in the water at once and they can be either bunched up in a pack or spread out depending on where in the course they are...
I really wish some people would just exercise common sense. Don't race if you think that you will have to stop during the swim. Obviously if you need to during the race because of something unexpected, please rest rather than risk downing, but planning on it is a disruption and a risk to everyone. I don't like it when there are people who are just really slow or have to do backstroke or breaststroke, since I am an ex-swimmer, but they do have every right to be there. I have a problem with the people who outright stop and cling to the buoys or lifeguards, especially if they go into the swim planning on it or are just completely unprepared and have no idea what their swimming ability is. That is a hazard. The lifeguards should be mobile and able to focus on watching for an responding to possible cardiac events and injuries rather than stupidity.
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sasquatch posted 18 weeks ago.
Kylie, I agree that it is a jerk thing to intentionally swim over people, but I honestly have done it many times on accident. If someone is coming across diagonally in front of you you will be halfway over them before you have a chance to react. At that point you might as well just finish going over. I usually get kicked in the process, but that's life in a mass start. I've also been swum over many times and had my head dunked as I was the one zigzagging.... Many times it is just the nature of swimming in a large mass start.
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brittda posted 18 weeks ago.
I have been swum over in the mass start in IM--funny though I am sure I passed most of them (and they were guys) eventually. I always try to start with a group that is going to finish around "my time", but I notice many start out frantically and die out pretty soon after. Since I finish aroud a 1:10 (not spectacular, but certainly faster than most, not as fast as some) I know they all didn't keep that pace.
No offense but it's usually the men doing the swimming over. Don't think I have ever been run over by another woman. It is the nature of the mass start, but I truely wish people would be a little more polite. An extra minute in an IM isn't going to kill you.
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PJT posted 18 weeks ago.
A quick update: the county medical examiner ruled the death an "accidental drowning." http://www.todaystmj4.com/news/local/50670472.html No mention of a heart attack, which is what the rumor had been around Milwaukee earlier (the victim weighed 300lbs and had lost 100 lbs training for this race). I don't know how definitive the ME's ruling is. I'd also note that the lifeguard who pulled the victim from the water is now saying there were too many people on the course and too many people who needed assistance from the lifeguards. I still don't think the course had too many swimmers, but I strongly agree that it had too many non-swimmers.
Just to respond to some of the comments:
Groovyjen, in terms of replicating a mass start, I think you can get pretty close. For example, I did a swim clinic 2 years ago where part of the class involved swimming in very close quarters with a group of about 15 people around a dive well. An open water clinic at a beach could accomplish the same thing. That might benefit a new triathlete, even if you wouldn't have the "race" adrenaline going.
Britt: the last IM I did, the guys had blue caps, women had pink. I was clocked several times early on in the swim, and each time the arm seemed to be attached to someone in a pink swim cap. :) None of them swam over me, though.
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krazyfranco posted 18 weeks ago.
PJT wrote:
Groovyjen, in terms of replicating a mass start, I think you can get pretty close. For example, I did a swim clinic 2 years ago where part of the class involved swimming in very close quarters with a group of about 15 people around a dive well. An open water clinic at a beach could accomplish the same thing. That might benefit a new triathlete, even if you wouldn't have the "race" adrenaline going.
Something I did to get used to an OWS was to go swim at a (not too-crowded) public, non-lap-swim pool. Gross, I know. But losing the lane lines and having people moving in every direction made the transition to open water much smoother. You have to see where others are and not freak out if you have to adjust your stroke to avoid someone. Not the best way to get a swim workout in, but very beneficial in terms of transitioning to open water swimming.
Hard days hard, easy days easy.
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jtrimom posted 18 weeks ago.
krazyfranco wrote:
PJT wrote:Groovyjen, in terms of replicating a mass start, I think you can get pretty close. For example, I did a swim clinic 2 years ago where part of the class involved swimming in very close quarters with a group of about 15 people around a dive well. An open water clinic at a beach could accomplish the same thing. That might benefit a new triathlete, even if you wouldn't have the "race" adrenaline going.Something I did to get used to an OWS was to go swim at a (not too-crowded) public, non-lap-swim pool. Gross, I know. But losing the lane lines and having people moving in every direction made the transition to open water much smoother. You have to see where others are and not freak out if you have to adjust your stroke to avoid someone. Not the best way to get a swim workout in, but very beneficial in terms of transitioning to open water swimming.
huh! that must've been YOU swimming your way back and forth thru our game of Marco Polo ;)
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brittda posted 18 weeks ago.
PJT wrote:
Britt: the last IM I did, the guys had blue caps, women had pink. I was clocked several times early on in the swim, and each time the arm seemed to be attached to someone in a pink swim cap. :) None of them swam over me, though.
Hmmmm maybe it's an "opposite sex thing" It always seemed to be the guys (blue caps ) dunking me. The "swim over" happend right at the start . I was actually amazed as I had never had that happen. HA
We all just need to play nice out there.
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Ironmom posted 18 weeks ago.
Excellent post PJT. For swimmers I'm coaching, my recommendation is always to be able to swim (in the pool) at least 150% of your swim distance (unless you're doing an IM) continuously, and at least try to get in 2 - 3 open water swims of 80% distance or greater. I have had my swimmers all crowd into on lap lane and do a "mass start". I think it helps to get over that fear of swimming in very close proximity to other bodies.
It's sad that so many people are racing completely unprepared for the OWS. It's one thing to have something come up unexpectedly (foot cramp, panic attack) and have to hold onto a kayak, but it's another thing for so many people to be relying on assistance that it renders the lifeguards unable to do their job. The only time I've seen anything like that in a swim start is at the Danskin, and honestly that race encourages first-timers and has scores of volunteer "swim angels" with noodles strung out over the swim course, which swimmers can go to for assistance and that frees up the lifeguards to do their job.
Blue Skies, -Robin-
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fpugsley posted 18 weeks ago.
kylie wrote:
...On the bike you don't go through people, or on the run. So go around as best you can on the swim as well...
Bike and run? Of course not, you can see them from a long way away. That's very obvious. you never see anyone push someone down on the run course.
In dark water with hundreds of swimmers it is very different. When you come onto someone who is swimming at 90degrees there is about 0.5 seconds to do something. Its happened twice to me, one guy was off the front with about 3 of us, and couldn't hold a straight line, and kept elbowing, kicking and slapping hands. So the 3rd or 4th time he came across me, i swam over him. The other time, someone was going across the course, and instead of stopping, and having someone hit me in the back, I kept going. I think I was ahead of the guy behind me by less than 10 seconds at the finish.
kylie wrote:
...So go around as best you can on the swim as well...
My exact words were "very best". I'm not going to grab someone by the feet and swim up their body for God's sake.
I think the jerk is the guy doing breaststroke in the middle of the racing line, as my crooked nose can show you.
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RV posted 18 weeks ago.
fpugsley wrote:
I think the jerk is the guy doing breaststroke in the middle of the racing line, as my crooked nose can show you.
No reason to label the guy doing the breast stroke a jerk - it is a legal stroke, so not like they are cheating - and they probably go straighter than a lot of others out there - and getting kicked by the guy swimming freestyle but coming across your path is worse and way more frequent.
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beads1985 posted 18 weeks ago.
PJT wrote:
"Can you do the swim, in open water and unassisted?"
The only thing I'd add is "Can you do the swim in open water, unassisted, with inevitable heavy contact from other swimmers - start to finish?"
How about "Can you do the swim, in open water and unassisted? while getting the crap kicked out of you?"
If you have any problems on the swim or the bike you can stop and rest, not so much for the swim ;-)
'Nothing to it, but to do it!'
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paganopj posted 18 weeks ago.
beads1985 wrote:
PJT wrote:"Can you do the swim, in open water and unassisted?"The only thing I'd add is "Can you do the swim in open water, unassisted, with inevitable heavy contact from other swimmers - start to finish?"
How about "Can you do the swim, in open water and unassisted? while getting the crap kicked out of you?"
If you have any problems on the swim or the bike you can stop and rest, not so much for the swim ;-)
Unfortunately there is only one way to find out.....we all have to start somewhere. Duly noting what's been said here, my times been spend swimming at the beach...not the pool. Dodging local surfers in heavy waves is fun....
Just keep spinning....spinning, spinning....uh, do I know you?
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So yesterday I did a sprint race in Pewaukee. For better or worse, this event has a reputation as a good one for first-timers. With the exception of an Elite division, waves are assigned in the order that you register, not by AG. I signed up late and was relegated to the final wave - 30.
Since I had nearly an hour to kill on the beach before my wave left, I got to watch most of the swim unfold. It was my 6th time doing this race, and I also do open water training in this lake, so I'm pretty familiar with it. The weather was calm-just a light wind coming across the lake and conditions were about as good as Pewaukee ever gets.
Within 20-30 minutes of the race starting, you could see people starting to cling to kayaks, boats, and the buoys. When my turn came to swim, I must have seen 15-20 people hanging on all possible objects in the water. I took a tight turn around the last corner buoy (a big one), and very nearly clocked 2 guys who were hanging on to the back side of it, invisible to oncoming swimmers. I'm told that lifeguards pulled several people back to shore.
The swim was only 400m long.
The this morning, we learned that one of the people who had to be assisted by a boat died: http://www.jsonline.com/news/waukesha/50617442.html
I feel terrible about the man who died and for the family he left behind. I don't know his specific circumstances--whether he had a preexisting medical condition, for example. So I'll make no assumptions about his particular case.
What I do know is this: there were many people who were clearly unprepared for a relatively easy open water swim. Lack of fitness, lack of swimming ability, or lack of comfort in open water kept the lifeguards busy all morning long.
This isn't specific to this race either. I've been at other races where I have heard people confess that it was their first time attempting to swim the distance, or, more disturbingly, their first time swimming in open water.
A race is NOT the place to figure out if you can swim 400m, 1500m, or 2.4 miles for the first time. It's not the place to see if you can handle choppy water, waves or currents. It is certainly NOT the place to learn whether or not you succumb to panic attacks when you can't see the bottom. And it's a bad place to learn that you don't like swimming surrounded by other people.
The sad fact is that people die swimming in triathlons regardless of their ability level. We know that many of these people are experienced athletes, and some are even very good swimmers. But for whatever reason, swimming seems to trigger cardiac events in some people. see http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/31/fashion/31fitness.html
Here's where I get ticked. If someone enters a race not knowing how to swim, not prepared for the distance or conditions, or not knowing how to handle open water without freaking out, he is pretty clearly taking on a heightened risk of drowning. But there is also the possibility, however slight, that he is going to divert a lifeguard's attention from someone who has a true medical emergency. His lack of preparation may contribute to someone else dying. In either case, something he could have done to prevent a tragedy -- training in open water until comfortable -- contributed to a fatality.
Don't be that guy.
From what I saw yesterday, the race had enough lifeguards. Waves were spaced by roughly 90 seconds with 50 people per wave, so the water was not Ironman crowded by any stretch. It looked to the casual eye that the race organizers were taking the necessary precautions (though I don't know for sure if they had an ambulance on hand). But what has happened with these situations in the past is that a victim's family members have sued race organizers. Win or lose, lawsuits make towns less likely to permit events, RD's more likely to raise fees to cover insurance, and, in the long run, can limit racing opportunities for everyone.
We see some variation of this question on Trifuel all the time: "can I do X distance as my first race?" My answer from here on out is a question: "Can you do the swim, in open water and unassisted?" If not or if you don't know the answer, do your fellow competitors a courtesy and don't start the race until you've experienced open water enough to reasonably believe you can do it. If you believe you can do it, I'll say go for it.