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5430 Boulder Peak "Hill"

harmsz's picture
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started by harmsz on July 6, 2009

So I just got a Tri bike a few weeks ago because my road bike, that is completely set up for climbing (triple and all), wasn't quite cutting it in the speed / race department. I'm still getting used to the new bike, but I love it. And then I decided to do a little bike course preview this past weekend for the Boulder Peak on Sunday...
I knew there was a big hill on this course, but I would never have anticipated this, short but super steep, the elevation view doesn't even do it justice:

http://www.5430sports.com/profiles/peak_elevation.jpg

At one point, while on the hill, I considered riding my road bike for the race so I know that I will make it without stopping /falling over… But the rest of the course is so fast and fun that I think I should be on the tri bike?? Cross your fingers for me…

drummertri's picture
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drummertri posted 19 weeks ago.

I rode the course a couple weeks ago to prove to myself I could make it up that hill:
http://connect.garmin.com/activity/7403188

I'm on a Specialized Tarmac w/compact gearing and aerobars. I do think being aero will come in handy for the non-hill part of the race, though I will be glad to be in the drops on the descent.

And the 5430 folks say the speed limit is only for a 0.6mi section after the peak.
See you Sunday at the Peak!

"If you have the courage to begin, you have the courage to succeed." - D. Viscott

TriSooner's picture
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TriSooner posted 19 weeks ago.

From the course description:

"The 42 kilometer bike leg is a course that has a little of everything as it winds through north Boulder County. A About 6 miles into the clockwise loop will ascend 15% Old Stage Hill (600' vertical climb in 2/3 of a mile). On the summit will be the first fluid replacement station. From Old Stage it is a beautiful descent down Left Hand Canyon and out onto the Buffalo covered plains. Now, in its third year, B a 35mph speed limit will be strictly enforced on the major descent on the backside of Old Stage Road. We will have police officers and course marshals monitoring this.

A: Their math is a bit off. Elevation Gain / Length of Hill = % Grade. So 600' / 3,485' (2/3 of a mile) = 17%. I think they may exagerate something (either shortness of hill or elevation gain). The Mt. Washington Auto Road Bike Race is generally regarded as the most wicked hill profile and theirs averages 12%. Regardless, I know this isn't a discussion about hill profiles very few us have ever ridden, so 12%, 15% or 17%, you'll be standing up on any bike you bring. Since you are asking, "Which bike?", I'd look at the triple and also take into account how much each one weighs.

B: OMG, totally did a double-take on the weakest thing I have every seen! Weak weak weak. Dude, Boulder, what happened to you?! I thought you were cool. I don't even know you anymore. Who imposes a speed restriction in a race? My apolgies to harmsz for this obvious threadjack, but that is ridiculous. I know it is for safety, but c'mon, is speed not the No. 1 goal of a race? If safety is a legit concern, then re-route and eliminate that hill. But OMG - 35mph? I hit that in city-limit sprints and crits. Talk about a banal speed. Scroll over to the elevation gain discussion and convert the kph that PoC mentions regarding Ironman Canada/Richter Pass and they far exceed 35mph. Next you'll see them put pace limits on the run so you don't over-exert yourself. "No one can attain a pace faster than 7:00 per mile." And what the hell are cops for? Unless the posted speed limit on the road (ie, for cars) is 35mph, they can't do anything! Are they going to write a ticket for exceeding the RD's lame speed limit if it is under the posted speed? Uhm, no.

Ok, rant over, time to salvage the post. Given the climb and that you have to slow down so you don't fall down and scwape your wittle knee, advantage: Road bike. If they didn't woos out and post a speed limit on the course (gag), I'd say take the tri bike because you could scream downhill. But since you'll be babysat riding the brakes the whole way down, take the bike that is easier to get up the hill.

harmsz's picture
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harmsz posted 19 weeks ago.

The speed limit is only for 0.6 miles of the very first part of the descent, so no riding your brakes on the rest of the course...

Well I made it with my tri bike the other day... it's just intimidating for a race with way too many people on a narrow road with no shoulder...

TriSooner's picture
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TriSooner posted 19 weeks ago.

It seems like they've opened a potential Pandora's box on this speed limit thing – regardless of how much of the course is covered. In a practical sense, 35mph downhill is the same as 35mph in a straight-away. (Just like a pound of feathers weighs as much as a pound of lead.) If the only concern is speed, then 35mph should be imposed over the entire 40k course. Rather, it seems the speed limit only pertains to a short section of downhill. (I’m not familiar with the course, but I’m envisioning a road down a hill/mountain with a gnarly drop-off). Obviously the concern is the speed plus the descent. While the resultant injuries from a crash may be more severe off of a hill than into a field, we do not know that. Just like you can drown in a bathtub, you can snap your neck at 35 into a cotton field in Lubbock. And if you ardently argue that downhill would be worse, then you are making my point for me: If it is the case that the downhill descent represents the danger, then the problem isn’t the speed - it is where the speed is attained.

It could be argued that if they knew the descent was dangerous enough to impose a cycling speed limit less than the posted auto speed limit, why are they using the road to begin with? A speed limit for the cyclists is an acknowledgment of the danger of the descent. Introducing a speed limit infers that riders will be "safe" at or below the speed limit. An analogy would be weight limits on pedals: Some superlight ti spindles are weight-rated up to 180lbs or so. As a rider, you expect to be safe on them up to 180lbs. If they brake at under 180lbs, there's a problem. So if you crash your bike at under 35, there's the same problem: like a manufacturer providing safety below a certain weight, the RD has stated (implicitly) that riders will be safe as long as they do not exceed a certain speed.

My point is that the speed limit should be whatever the posted auto speed limit is.* If a rider crashes and is injured above the posted speed limit, the RD has the legitimacy of the vehicular speed limit enforced by the Colorado Department of Transportation (or whomever comes up with speed limits, you get my point). The rider was exceeding the posted speed limit and is therefore responsible for his/her actions and outcomes. And in a larger sense it sets a questionable precedent to introduce the idea that bicycles somehow need different 'speed limits' than do cars, thus creating a 'special category' for bikes and eroding claims that bicycles are vehicles and are entitled to the same rights and responsibilities as cars.

*If the road speed limit is 35mph, then screw me, I've wasted 10-minutes of my life making a moot point.

zagfan's picture
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zagfan posted 19 weeks ago.

They essentially did the same thing at Boise 70.3. Coming down from the Birds of Prey climb they had a NO PASS zone on probably a 600 meter stretch. You think 35MPH is bad, try going 20MPH stuck in a group of recreational riders with death grips on their brakes. Everyone seemed to follow the no passing rule so in the end it was a dead point b/c everyone had to follow the same rule, you're overall speed was just slower.

I would still race your tri bike unless you are significantly better on the road bike for that climb. The speed limit is only for .6 miles and not knowing the course I would have to ask how fast you would actually go if there was no limit? If its a windy road with a bunch of switchbacks then 35MPH may be completely reasonable with or without the speed limit. Plus, by looking at the profile you then have about 18 miles to hammer in the aero position, which should make up for what little you lost on the climb. Not knowing the ascent/descent of Old Stage Hill I would take the tri. Plus, if its a new tri bike the psychological benefit of racing on a new bike alone should help out.

"Pain is temporary. Quitting lasts forever." Lance Armstrong

harmsz's picture
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harmsz posted 19 weeks ago.

Old Stage Road is kind of a residential street with a lot of driveways, I bet the speed limit is 30mph or max 35mph. It's not really windy at all, a few turns maybe. I assume that some one crashed really bad years back and now they have to enforce a speed limit to please whomever complained. To be honest, doesn't affect me much, my max speed is usually not much faster that 35... I know I'm a wimp!
Found this while searching for the speed limit: (must cut and paste in browser for some reason)
(www.dailycamera.com/news/2008/jun/24/injured-cyclist-watch-out-bears/)
Gotta love CO.

katarddx's picture
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katarddx posted 19 weeks ago.

that hill will kill you?!?!?!? dont worry about hill. just make sure you dont hit a bear like that dude did a year or two ago...
brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

CroatiaN SensatioN

drummertri's picture
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drummertri posted 19 weeks ago.

Here's the history on the speed limit:
http://m.dailycamera.com/news/2006/Jul/21/boulder-peak-triathlon-sets-bi...

"If you have the courage to begin, you have the courage to succeed." - D. Viscott

sasquatch's picture
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sasquatch posted 19 weeks ago.

I understand every race has it's reasons for setting it's rules, but why climb if you can't have fun on the descent?

I have a road race this weekend with a 3000ft 10mi descent at mile 180 of 200. Two years ago I hit 51mph solo down it, this year I'm hoping to be with 2-3 other riders and I think we should be able to break the speed limit(55mph), That would be a new PR for me :) So psyched.....

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Socket posted 19 weeks ago.

So the rule came about because of 2 riders who, at different points in time, had accidents in the area and not necessarily during the race? Really? 1 accident because the rider crossed into oncoming traffic, another because the rider hit a ditch. Really?

I can understand safety concerns and it is only .6 miles, but... REALLY?

harmsz's picture
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harmsz posted 19 weeks ago.

I wonder if the Pro's have the same rules?? Their waves are completely separate and their run course is different. I'm sure they would hate the speed limit rule.