swim training
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brittda posted 18 weeks ago.
Dear lord you are doing as much as I am, and I am training for an IM. Size doesn't have a lot to do with it, I am larger and can go a 1:10 (IM) with little training (2-3x week the month before) . It's all in the stroke. Do you have a coach or someon who can evaluate your stroke?
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kpollock posted 18 weeks ago.
I am by no means an expert on swimming but distance alone isn't going to make you a faster swimmer, assuming you are always swimming at the same pace. I compare it to running. You can run 20 miles over and over again, but it won't make you a faster runner, again assuming you're running at a normal, comfortable pace. Take someone who does less mileage but at higher intensity (tempo runs, intervals,etc) that person will become a faster runner.
I use the IM training program from this site. I have seen my mile swim time cut down by 5 min (40 min to 35.... pool time not OW) over the last 5 months. I hate doing the drills but I have to say, I believe it has helped along with perfecting my stroke which I will say has probably made the biggest difference. And at the most, I think the distance has been 2500m, and that's only once a week and never a straight swim, always broken up into drills.
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brittda posted 18 weeks ago.
kpollock wrote:
I am by no means an expert on swimming but distance alone isn't going to make you a faster swimmer, assuming you are always swimming at the same pace. I compare it to running. You can run 20 miles over and over again, but it won't make you a faster runner, again assuming you're running at a normal, comfortable pace. Take someone who does less mileage but at higher intensity (tempo runs, intervals,etc) that person will become a faster runner.I use the IM training program from this site. I have seen my mile swim time cut down by 5 min (40 min to 35.... pool time not OW) over the last 5 months. I hate doing the drills but I have to say, I believe it has helped along with perfecting my stroke which I will say has probably made the biggest difference. And at the most, I think the distance has been 2500m, and that's only once a week and never a straight swim, always broken up into drills.
I do zero drills. Was a swimmer in HS and Masters for years and just hate them. I would agree that this would indicate you needed work on your stroke and would be helpful. I do :
One "long swim" a week of about an hour ....knowing my race won't be much longer
One with mid distance sets
One with shorter sprint sets
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kpollock posted 18 weeks ago.
Drills may be the wrong word....whatever they have spelled out on this site's training program. But it does consist of many sets of swimming at fast paces, so what's that intervals? Whatever it is, I HATE it! But I do it...to the best of my ability:) However when they say swim at 80-90%, I never know if I am at that HR because I don't use a HR monitor for my swim, I just try and gage how hard I am breathing when I've completed a set. I can never keep that pace up for as long as required!
Brittda, what do you think of the swim portion of the 36 IM program from this site?
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KitKat posted 18 weeks ago.
Where's Ironmom on this? :)
Distance will not help speed. Spend some time on drills, form and strength. I'll let the *experts explain this further.
**Pain is weakness leaving the body**
*Smile, it does a body good*
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jrs961 posted 18 weeks ago.
To echo everyone else, swimming long and slow isn't going to help you improve. You need to vary your intensity, pace, etc.
If you don't feel ready to swim with a masters group, find some swim workouts. There are workouts attached to many training plans, or I really like http://www.swimmingworldmagazine.com/swim-cgi/
because you can enter in your ability level and the type and length of workout you are looking for, and it will give you several options.
Good luck!
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TriSooner posted 18 weeks ago.
KitKat wrote:
Distance will not help speed. Spend some time on drills, form and strength.
Yeah, your 3,000-4,000 is way overkill for a 70.3. If it took you 40:00+ to go 2000 in your half, then you're spending 1.5 hours in the pool on long days? You'd be better served with speedwork than by grinding out LSD in the water. As stated, distance does not result in speed. They are two distinct training elements.
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Toothless posted 18 weeks ago.
Since I haven't seen you swim I won't address form issues, but if you have bad form you should hire a coach who can watch you in the pool and correct bad habits.
For a workout, I would recommend a 300 warm up followed by 10 X 100 on 2:00. 300 cool down. Do this workout as your key swim every week until you are finishing each 100 in 1:50 or less. Then add paddles/pull buoy. Then increase to 15 X 100. If you can still get more than 10 seconds rest for each 100 at this point (including the last 100) then drop the interval to 1:55. Then 1:50. Continue improving. Maybe increase to 20 X 100.
Also try to keep you pace/effort consistent throughout the set. You don't want to finish the first 100 in 1:30 and then struggle to make 2:00 by the last one.
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fawcettenator posted 18 weeks ago.
I agree with toothless, in addition you might want to even do some sprint 50's and 200's. For your 50's maybe try them every 55-60 seconds. Good Luck and I hope you Improve! ;)
Tired is a state of mind, exhaustion is a state of body.
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jarhead posted 18 weeks ago.
thanks everyone! I am starting a masters class Monday! I'll keep you posted on my progress. I will be doing the full Iron distance Redman in September.
Pain is weakness leaving the body.
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tri-ac posted 18 weeks ago.
Toothless wrote:
For a workout, I would recommend a 300 warm up followed by 10 X 100 on 2:00. 300 cool down. Do this workout as your key swim every week until you are finishing each 100 in 1:50 or less. Then add paddles/pull buoy. Then increase to 15 X 100. If you can still get more than 10 seconds rest for each 100 at this point (including the last 100) then drop the interval to 1:55. Then 1:50. Continue improving. Maybe increase to 20 X 100.Also try to keep you pace/effort consistent throughout the set. You don't want to finish the first 100 in 1:30 and then struggle to make 2:00 by the last one.
+1 on this strategy
or, ladder up and down based on your threshold pace/100
400,300,200,100,200,300, 400
to find your threshold pace, do 8x100 + 1x200 on 10s rest intervals. divide the total time by 10. add 0:15 and use this time as your threshold pace/100. every 6wks or so, retest and see how your doing. so, you may calc 1:45/100, but use 2:00/100 on the ladder listed above. you want to beat 8:00 on the 400. The time by which you beat the goal is your rest time until the next part of the ladder.
as you work on this you will see your times improve. when you're ready to step up a level, shorten rest intervals before bumping up your threshold pace goals...so if you did 10x100 on 10s rest; do that set on 5s rest before moving from 1:45/100 to 1:40/100, etc.
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StewartC posted 17 weeks ago.
Hey Jarhead,
It takes years to get good at swimming due to the skill component and like everything some people pick up skills very quickly due to body awareness and other factors.
Drills are great but they have to be specific. If you want to progress quickly then I would recommend getting some one-on-one sessions twice a week for 12 weeks. You should then have the skills to join the slow lane of a masters swim squad.
Otherwise just swim. Eventually if you swim enough you will develop a technique that although it will be rough, it will get you from point A to point B. Really work on front quadrant swimming and getting a good hold on the water.
Don't worry about reps, sets and intensity - just focus on time. Start at 30mins 3x/week then add more sessions in each week until you are swimming every day. Once you are swimming everyday then start increasing the time by 5mins a session until you are swimming 50-60mins x 6-7sessions/week.
Don't forget to stretch before and after and have down weeks where you cut the volume by half, ie build weeks 1,2,3, recover 4 and start at week 2 again.
Cheers,
Stew
www.aeromaxteam.com
www.aeromaxteam.com
Everyone has a limit... Not everyone finds out where it is!
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TriAu posted 17 weeks ago.
Jarhead -
A few things. Not to step on any toes, but you need to do drills. They are essential to your swimming technique. Thats a large majority of what age group kids are doing, probably 25 35% of their yardage is drills. Although I am about 800 miles away I train one of my good friends through his swimming and the following are three drills I consider essential to his training.
Finger Tip Drag: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OAqBSgMX3es
Catch up Drill: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fszey7mJSb4&feature=related
Six Beat Drill: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HWrAYcmexqQ&feature=related
If you look through the related videos on youtube you will see explanations of these drills by Michael Phelps, Alex Popov, and Natalie Coughlin, if they do it, you should do it (I didnt use theirs because they were not as clear as these). When you do these do not hesitate to put on fins or a snorkel. These will allow you to focus on your stroke by taking out a few distractions. I like to put drill sessions at the end of a practice. Get the body used to repeating proper technique when it is already tired, however anywhere in a practice would be good.
For your speed: As a competitive swimmer I always ended every practice (before warm down) with a fast set. Commonly 10*50 @1:00 ALL OUT. For my trainee, I prefer 12*25@ 15sRest alternating one fast and one perfect stroke. Endlessly swimming laps is not going to get you any speed, but toss in a fast set or two and you should be good.
For your distance: My background in swimming is considerably more extensive than any of the other disciplines. I will go 5-6K three days a week, and an easy 2K on sundays as a recovery workout. KEEP IN MIND I was a college swimming at a very high level. People may think that is very high, but I spend a lot of tine fine tuning things, including working with kickboards, paddles, buoys, snorkels, etc etc. So, tailor your workout around YOUR experience, not someone else's (unless they are a qualified coach). A masters group is definitely a good start. A structured practice should provide you with much better results than swimming laps. Happy hunting, if you have any other questions feel free to PM me.
E
WAR EAGLE!
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jarhead posted 6 weeks ago.
Thought I would let you guys know how much I improved since I posted this thread. I signed up for the master swim class in Aug. and this weekend I had my full Iron distance race and my 1st loop was done in 33:00. Thats 13 minutes faster than my HIM. My second loop including the run up the ramp was 35:00. What a major improvement! Here is a link to my RR!
Thanks all!
http://www.trifuel.com/forum/20781/redman-full-iron-rr
Pain is weakness leaving the body.
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prendergi posted 6 weeks ago.
Congrats!
"The pain of discipline is far less than the pain of regret" - Sarah Bombell
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SalTri21 posted 6 weeks ago.
Hi Everyone. I just read through this thread and thought I'd pass along some good videos I've used before. There are 8 awesome videos in the one article. I'm a big fan of the freestyle kicking tips one personally but they're all good. Good luck everyone!
Olympic gold medalist and 2008 team captain Natalie Coughlin offer tips on swimming technique and form: http://bit.ly/SwimVideos
I would consider myself a strong, but slow swimmer. I used to be fast, back when I was younger and lighter. I just completed my first HIM and my swim time was around 46 minutes. I was hoping for a sub 40 at most. I started my swim training about 1 year ago. Since that time I have seen improvements in my swim endurance, stamina, and breathing in the water. However, I have seen little no improvement in my swim speed. My swim training usually consist of 1-1,500 meters on short days, and 3-4,000 meters on long days (2 short and 1 long per week). This always is done by just swimming laps in the pool, no paddles, leg bouyes, etc. Is there something different I could be doing in my training to improve my speed.
What's frustrating is my friend and I started training at the same time and he could hardly swim 50 meters before he could not continue. Last week in the HIM he beat me by 3 minutes!
Thanks for your input!
Pain is weakness leaving the body.