realistic way to loose 40 mins in IM.
I think that many IM training programs are a little slack when it comes to the long run, and running in general. I feel your assesment of needing to train with longer runs is spot on. Train like you're training for a stand alone marathon...with caution. Shoot for a long run of 40k. Two would be better during the course of the training cycle. Try upping your general running milage. I think 5 days a week of running is best. 60k and above. Not all of it hard, of course, but your shooting for frequency. And of course this means some speed work, which can reek havoc on training in general...which is why I recommend caution.
I wish I had your bike time (maybe I would if I picked flat IM's)! The ammount of time you would have to put in to get to 5:20 or lower, could bring diminishing returns.
Then here is another thought: You may not be able to find those last 40 minutes. Yes You can probably improve, but after years of talking to and observing and doing some IM's as well as other endurance events I have found that each individual has a limit to how much work they can do, and that is beyound your control. You may be at yours now, but you won't know till you push it.
Go for it...but be aware of what may or may not come.
"If e wishes to sweem in dangerous waters, oo are we to deny im?
-Chef Skinner
http://antonspath.blogspot.com
No experience at IM, so I'm just talking out of my ass, but I think you need to provide more info if you want a quality response.
1. Why do you NEED to drop 40 minutes? (I assume you are looking at Kona)
2. What is you history when it comes to endurance sports? (how old were you when you started, how long have you been doing them)
3. What was your training like for your 10:20?
4. How are your times at Oly and Sprint distances?
I hope I didn't miss it, but can you share your 13.1 run pace, 26.2 run pace or something close? Did you bonk on the run or do you have a slower pace? If you have 'ages' until your next race, I would consider working on run speed. Easy to say to do speed work, though, but that could change if you say you run 6min/miles and bonked. If you bonked you clearly would need to work on the run endurance. or maybe fuel.
or pick a course with a flat ride/run course--ahahhahahahah
I joke. I would kill for a 5:30 bike as I am hoping to skate in with a 6:30 this year (of course IMC is hilly so my own fault).
+1 to what Anton said about the run.
My training plans call for a 3 hour run max. I usually go for miles on that and hit 22 once and at least 20 once or twice. I am slower though so a faster runner could get 22 miles in during that 3 hours.
or pick a course with a flat ride/run course--ahahhahahahah
I joke. I would kill for a 5:30 bike as I am hoping to skate in with a 6:30 this year (of course IMC is hilly so my own fault).
+1 to what Anton said about the run.
My training plans call for a 3 hour run max. I usually go for miles on that and hit 22 once and at least 20 once or twice. I am slower though so a faster runner could get 22 miles in during that 3 hours.
olympic = 2.10hrs
run was 3 laps
lap 1 = 1.15hrs
lap 2 = 1.15hrs
lap 3 = 1.20hrs which is what i meant about not training for the 3rd, i slowed down quite a bit.
5:30bike, this was on a pretty hilly course (like easiest gear up one hill TDF stuff)
Training is between 20-25 hours per week.
olympic 2:10 IM 10:20
24hr sprint tri 8.5k swim, 250k bike, 89k run, 27 laps
55+5:30+3:50+4=10:20
Okay, personally, I think you're just bragging, :)
but that's okay, you earned it.
Congratulations.
Just a nit: I get really grumpy when people don't know the difference between "lose" as in "to lose ten pounds" and "loose" as in "not tight", but maybe that's just me. I was a schoolteacher.
It just makes me think that the poster is unable to grasp concepts of training necessary to achieve goals so why bother telling them? Anyway..
You want to be 40 mins faster on 10:20 that's a 6.5% improvement. Maybe that's possible, it's hard to say without knowing more about you like say, your age, weight, training experience.
I surveyed some of your posts and it seems that you are quite experienced and must know a lot about race prep / training already. After all, nobody goes sub-11 by dumb luck!
Break it down.
6% of 55 mins is 3.55 mins
6% of 5:30 is 21.45mins
6% of 3:50 is 15mins
It looks like your run is soft 55min swim is an elite swim, 5:30 bike is top flite (depending on your age, but really good regardless) 3:50 marathon - not exciting unless you're old like me. :)
I'm guessing you wouldn't qualify for Boston in your AG, right?
So you have to figure out the run. Maybe it is as simple as "losing" 10lbs of bodyweight. There are calculations of how fast you can go at different bodyweights. Just for the sake of enlightenment Google it.
You want to go 9:40:00? Check out the splits on the IM website of your chosen race to see what 9:40:00 racers do in each leg.
Bottom line: At your level of ability, improving by 40 minutes is likely going to need a Professional Coach to workout exactly how YOU need to train to get 'er done.
Good Luck with "losing" those 40 minutes and making your goal,
PoC
""Your ass looks fantastic. Are the kids in bed yet???"
- TonisTri. 10/2009

yeah i like your 6% method, makes the numbers look easier.
hardly bragging. i only came 33 of my age group.
elite? i dont know where you are from but i wouldn't say male elite unless you can do a sub 9hrs.
I like your numbers you have produced and they do seem more realistic.
now for some bragging, i told my swim coach that after the swim i felt real good and should have went harder. he just said i swam a good swim. 55mins felt pretty easy to me.
olympic 2:10 IM 10:20
24hr sprint tri 8.5k swim, 250k bike, 89k run, 27 laps
I'm doing my first IM this fall, so I'm not super knowledgable. Doing what Anton had suggested I looked at Everyone who finished IMC in between 10:15 and 10:30 and they averaged 1:06 on the swim, 5:23 on the bike, 3:50 on the run, and about 6 min Transition, for a total average of 10:25.
Then I looked at the average for those finishing between 9:30 and 9:45. They averaged 0:59 on the swim, 5:12 on the bike, 3:25 on the run, and 4:30 in transition for a total of 9:41. Based on that I would say you need to improve both your bike and run.
Remarkable close to Anton's prediction :)
(yes I am very bored at work right now)
Also, comparing all the guys I know who have done both, I would say your Oly time is relatively slower than your IM time..... If that's the case, I would say speed is a limiter for you and you should take some time to develop the speed, then build into the endurance with that speed.
I would also look to make sure you have every bit of "free" speed on your bike that you can get. I.e. good fit, all the Aero toys, weightweight, etc
Good Luck!!!
so yeap 20 off the bike and 20 off the run.
like i said i could have knocked 20 off the bike, but thought that would hurt me too much on the run.
so if thats the case i need to to 10 runs at flat out pace off the bike, not 5k easy round the block stuff.
olympic 2:10 IM 10:20
24hr sprint tri 8.5k swim, 250k bike, 89k run, 27 laps
FWIW, I haven't done an IM yet, but I'm going to chime in anyways. You are a good swimmer...chances of getting substantial improvement there are slim, but don't let it slide at all either. I think you would benefit mostly by doing some longer training runs, some med-long runs focused on speed, and biking more.
What stands out to me is that you can swim about 5-10mins slower than elites, your marathon is OK considering IM, and I may need to take a better look at the course, but I'm assuming its no IMLP, so 5:30 isn't exactly the top tier bike split.
That being said, biking more/longer/harder would also help greatly because biking can have beneficial effects on run speed not accounting for the fact that strengthening your bike leg will leave you more fresh for the run. I think by your fitness level (assumed) you should be able to take 20-30 minutes out of your run...that leaves 10-20 for the bike, also do-able unless your riding a ridiculous course
Let us know how it goes and if you make Kona...who you are...I'd love to be cheering you on in the future
I heard that logging your workouts on trifuel and sharing them will knock 20 min from your IM. Not saying it's true, but is it worth taking the chance? :)
Training 20-25 hours/week? Is that an average over 30+ weeks before the event? Sounds like a lot to me. I don't want to be negative Nancy, but if you are putting in that much time, dropping 40 min sounds really tough. Best of luck, and keep us posted. I love hearing how changes to training plans result in changes to race times.
I'm concerned about something here.
last November you posted this:
"my swim is not bad but, while kicking with a board i dont seem to go anywhere. I have good running/riding legs but they dont seem to be effective at kicking.
While on my back kicking i have proper speed, but on my stomache i dont seem to go anywhere.
so does anyone have some good tips to get back to the basics and get a good kick.
I got paddles they helped my freestyle storke. Should i get fins, will they help me kick better?"
yet above, in this thread you wite that your swim split at IM is 55mins
"so my swim is probably ok, .."
Hell of an improvement in 7 months..
IMHO nobody who swims 3.84kms in a split of 55mins lacks sufficient knowledge of swim mechanics to ask this rather naive question. It doesn't add up for me.
Similarly, somebody who records a 10:20 IM time doesn't need to ask how to train in order to get sub-10, that inconsistency bothered me too, as I said above,
as did your question regarding Sprint training when you reported huge volumes of IM training and bricks in the same week..
You have no info on your profile, so what race did you record this 10:20 at?
Perhaps you could clear this up?
PoC
""Your ass looks fantastic. Are the kids in bed yet???"
- TonisTri. 10/2009












I need to loose 40 mins in an ironman. from 10:20, down to 9:40
my times are
55mins swim
5.5hr bike
3hr50min
transitions
4mins
so my swim is probably ok, i need to shave 20-30mins off my bike, yes in my last race i could have but i was saving for the run.
so my run is the killer. I really need to easily loose 30mins off the run and 10 off the bike.
What would be the best way forward with ages till my next race to build up towards reducing these times....
any help would be great.
In the run (3 laps)
I kept saying, i only trained for the first 2 laps, so does that mean i need to do longer training runs? to practise doing a 30-40k run during training??
olympic 2:10 IM 10:20
24hr sprint tri 8.5k swim, 250k bike, 89k run, 27 laps