hills and running
32
Member
502 days
try2try posted 47 weeks ago.
great question! I have the same situation, although I still developing a "love" for running up hill:) Looking forward reading some good answers.
2916
Member
1564 days
tri-ac posted 47 weeks ago.
when i was doing crew, our coach made us run backwards down hills "to save our knees"...no idea if there's any truth to that idea at all...LOL
91
Member
362 days
em_me posted 47 weeks ago.
i would be afraid of falling on my ass running backward lol. gravity and i don't get along.. i've been known to trip on flat surfaces. i'll give it a shot on a less steep hill though.
91
Member
362 days
em_me posted 47 weeks ago.
i would be afraid of falling on my ass running backward lol. gravity and i don't get along.. i've been known to trip on flat surfaces. i'll give it a shot on a less steep hill though.
269
Member
676 days
cutiger95 posted 45 weeks ago.
OK so who is running the first race and running backwards down each hill?
333
Member
417 days
Semper Tri posted 45 weeks ago.
lean forward, look 5 steps ahead and hang on. . . this coming from the guy that sprained an ankle 3 weeks ago....
i dont know what today will bring to me, but thats just fine.
324
Member
453 days
IthinkIcan posted 45 weeks ago.
What about changing your form slightly for the downhills so you are striking more with the front or middle of your foot rather than the heal. Still slow it down when you try so you don't injure your calf, though. Changing your strike to be more in the mid to front foot should transfer the stress across more distance lessening the impact (see physics teacher I remembered something!). It will let your foot, calf, knee and quad take the impact instead of going straight from heal to knee to quad.
Unless you are already a mid foot striker. In which case, maybe try a new shoe.
44
Member
356 days
amorelli posted 45 weeks ago.
tri-ac wrote:
when i was doing crew, our coach made us run backwards down hills "to save our knees"...no idea if there's any truth to that idea at all...LOL
Running backwards down the hill forces you to land mid-fore foot (try heel striking while running backwards one time - you'll see what I mean. But not really cause you'll faceplant), so that's the knee benefit. The major benefit I know of (which came into play running up 45 degree grassy inclines to build knee drive) is that going backwards down the hill, especially slowly, will stretch out your calves. This is an important consideration if you're running a large number of short, steep hills in succession. However, for your generic "going down a hill," I'd suggest trying not to let your heels slam into the ground with so much force. At most, do a rolling heel-toe motion and strive to improve that to a mid-foot contact.
I want to thank the Good Lord for making me a Yankee.
-Joe DiMaggio
Twitter me: http://twitter.com/anthonymorelli
2916
Member
1564 days
tri-ac posted 45 weeks ago.
amorelli wrote:
tri-ac wrote:when i was doing crew, our coach made us run backwards down hills "to save our knees"...no idea if there's any truth to that idea at all...LOL
Running backwards down the hill forces you to land mid-fore foot (try heel striking while running backwards one time - you'll see what I mean. But not really cause you'll faceplant), so that's the knee benefit. The major benefit I know of (which came into play running up 45 degree grassy inclines to build knee drive) is that going backwards down the hill, especially slowly, will stretch out your calves. This is an important consideration if you're running a large number of short, steep hills in succession. However, for your generic "going down a hill," I'd suggest trying not to let your heels slam into the ground with so much force. At most, do a rolling heel-toe motion and strive to improve that to a mid-foot contact.
wow! so there's actually some truth to it...
i always thought he was just screwing with us to combat boredom (his or ours, i'm not sure) :p
91
Member
362 days
em_me posted 45 weeks ago.
i tried running backwards and it was really awkward for me and i fell down lol. I don't think i have good control. I think i am a mid striker... i know i don't run on my toes but i don't think i run on my heels either. my shoes are definitely up for replacement this month so that could be whats doing it. i've been trying to point my toes more as i go downhill and do that rolling the foot thing and it seems to be helping. i may try the backwards thing again but definitely slower this time.
44
Member
356 days
amorelli posted 45 weeks ago.
Hold on everyone! I'm far from suggesting running down hills backwards. That actually sounds a little ridiculous. The only time I've ever done that is while doing short, intense repeats up an incredibly steep hill, where walking down backwards was part of the recovery. For going downhill, I'd suggest just a better stride.
I want to thank the Good Lord for making me a Yankee.
-Joe DiMaggio
Twitter me: http://twitter.com/anthonymorelli
491
Member
979 days
stewarba posted 45 weeks ago.
OK, I've done some light reading tonight in my Triathlete mag and came across a mechanics recomendation from Mark Allen. He recommended that you go to a track and run a few laps barefoot. He states that your body has a natural tendancy to mid strike and roll mechincally sound and suggests that shoes encourage heal striking. The point was to register the way your body's natural tendancy is and mimic that while runnign with shoes on. I read similar comments in a discussion here on Trifuel recently from an article posted, so this idea of running barefoot seems to be growing in popularity.
Pain is the sensation of weakness leaving the body!
44
Member
356 days
amorelli posted 45 weeks ago.
stewarba wrote:
OK, I've done some light reading tonight in my Triathlete mag and came across a mechanics recomendation from Mark Allen. He recommended that you go to a track and run a few laps barefoot. He states that your body has a natural tendancy to mid strike and roll mechincally sound and suggests that shoes encourage heal striking. The point was to register the way your body's natural tendancy is and mimic that while runnign with shoes on. I read similar comments in a discussion here on Trifuel recently from an article posted, so this idea of running barefoot seems to be growing in popularity.
Definitely! From a purely physical (as in physics, not physical as in body) examination of the forces involved, midfoot striking is by far the most beneficial form of running. In heel striking, the foot lands while traveling forward in front of the center of mass and is driven into the ground. According to Newtonian mechanics, this means that an equal and opposite force acts from the ground on the foot. Unfortunately, your foot was traveling forward at the time, meaning that this opposing force is directed in a direction opposite your current velocity. For example, imagine a runner traveling from right to left across this computer screen. His center of mass is at the hips, but since he is heel striking, his heel lands in front of his hips. Although his velocity is to the right, heel striking results in a force to the left. Since Force = Mass * Acceleration (Newton again), this generates an acceleration opposite to your velocity which serves to slow you down. In order to propel yourself forward, you must wait until your center of mass travels past your planted foot and then push off, once again driving into the ground. This time, as the ground exerts a force on your foot, this force is in the same direction as your motion, resulting in forward propulsion (in our computer screen example, this force is to the right.
Now, lets examine midfoot/forefoot striking, otherwise known as biomechanically efficient running (the "mechanics" portion of that word is what I'm explaining). Instead of landing in front of your mass while traveling forward, your foot lands under your center of mass while traveling backwards. Since your foot is traveling left (returning to our computer screen model) when it strikes the ground, the force from the ground is directed to the right, resulting in forward propulsion. Then, you can push off almost immediately, as the wait time for your center of mass to travel past your planted foot is negligible. Once again, this push off results in a force, and thus an acceleration, to the right.
So basically, from a purely mathematics/physics standpoint, heel striking results first in a force that opposes your motion (and therefore a negative acceleration) before generating a positive acceleration from the push off. Midfoot/forefoot striking results in forces directed solely in the same direction as your motion, and therefore never generates a negative acceleration that would oppose your motion. Therefore, if you heelstrike, you're constantly slowing yourself down, whereas if you midfoot strike, you're constantly propelling yourself forward.
I want to thank the Good Lord for making me a Yankee.
-Joe DiMaggio
Twitter me: http://twitter.com/anthonymorelli
491
Member
979 days
stewarba posted 45 weeks ago.
Nice breakdown amorelli! How does one apply this to hill running or at least running down hill. It seems that you would be in a constant state of acceleration doing a mid foot strike on the downhill or would this be a case where there is an advantage (from a form perspective) striking heal first to counteract the physics of running down hill?
Pain is the sensation of weakness leaving the body!
758
Member
1030 days
44
Member
356 days
amorelli posted 45 weeks ago.
Ideally, you maintain the "same" form. Of course, that's impossible, but heel striking is never a good idea - wastes energy. Just the same as increasing gas mileage in a car - using brakes wastes gas vs. rolling to a stop (you're using energy to push yourself forward and the stop more quickly instead of conserving energy by rolling forward and stopping slowly). Also, running isn't pure physics - biomechanics play an important roll, and heel striking downhill is a sure way of giving yourself shinsplints from the added force. I'd suggest (this is what I try to do) maintaining a midfoot strike as best you can and downgrade the force of your pushoff - you won't need to propel yourself forward as much with the hill helping.
I want to thank the Good Lord for making me a Yankee.
-Joe DiMaggio
Twitter me: http://twitter.com/anthonymorelli
5333
Member
2118 days
kylie posted 45 weeks ago.
I find focusing on a good turnover really helps me on downhills.
Miles of Life --- Powered by MarkyV
2905
Member
1805 days
Triguy98 posted 45 weeks ago.
kylie wrote:
I find focusing on a good turnover really helps me on downhills.
Kylie is so smart! ;) I also find increasing turn over and leaning forward a little helps. try not to break too much when going downhill. Gravity is actually trying to help you on the downhills, why fight it?
Life is short. Play hard and get dirty doing it.
The area i live is kind of hilly... great for training- not so great on the knees. i was hoping i could get some advice on the best way to manage the downhills. I love running up hill, its built up my endurance and straight a ways are a breeze.. but i hate having to slow down and lean back going down the hills. whats the best way to save my knees with out losing speed?