trailer?
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deepbluex posted 45 weeks ago.
I've thought about this before and I'm of the opinion that there is something to hauling around a heavy bike in order to develop strength. However, I also believe you can get a plenty good workout by just going hard without a trailered bike. The benefit of the latter is that you'd have a better idea of your expected pace for the race and you would get more experience in the feel and handling of a bike at speed. It comes down to what works for you. If you believe you will do better by following a particular method then go for it.
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Anton posted 45 weeks ago.
Nope...not in his head. He's spot on. Sort of on the bike resistance training. Some folks ( myself included) go for long training rides on the road...on an MTB. Pushing an almost 30 pound bike around builds a lot of strength and endurance. You don't do all your rides on it, which is probably why you saw him on his race bike. During my build phases I'll put in 75% of my rides on the Heavy Pig. Been doing it for years and my endurance is...pretty good. Even won a few converts. Try it. see if it works for you.
"If e wishes to sweem in dangerous waters, oo are we to deny im?
-Chef Skinner
http://antonspath.blogspot.com
1117
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1087 days
Ironmom posted 45 weeks ago.
I think there's something to it. I ride a heavy mountain bike with panniers as my commuter bike, and I find that it gives me a lot of strength. Especially in races with a lot of hills or corners, that's where I notice a difference. I did an Oly race last season that was a pretty technical course with a lot of twists and turns, so a lot of deccelerating and then accelerating back up to pace. I had an outstanding bike time and passed a lot of strong riders, I think because most triathletes train in a steady state, and I do up to 30% of my mileage on my heavy commuter bike in town where I have to accelerate away from stop signs all the time, it's an advantage on a course like this.
I also consider biking with my kids on the tandem to be resistance training ;-)
Blue Skies, -Robin-
http://ironmom.blogspot.com/
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J.Michael posted 45 weeks ago.
I've found I get similar benefits to riding most of my group rides on my fixed gear. I have it setup with a higher gear than I would use on my tri bike. It makes you work harder instead of just shifting gears. I makes riding my race bike feel much eaiser, and I don't tire as quickly. I've also found that the inability to coast makes a 25mi ride feel like 30-35mi.
Give it a shot.
“Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm.”
— Winston Churchill
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SerialKiller posted 45 weeks ago.
well my 21 pounds of "extra" weight i put in my trailer is glad y'all think it works, she thinks it's real funny to watch daddy struggle up the hill from the lakes.
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TriSooner posted 45 weeks ago.
I'm not sold. If all of the objective measurements of exertion or effort, such as heart rate, VO2 output, power output (or any objective measurement other than MPH) are the same on a heavy bike and a light bike*, then you are getting the same conditioning results (ie, 500 watts on a beater MTB is the same as 500 watts on a Pinarello Prince). I don't see why the same level of exertion on a heavy bike is better for you than a light bike. If you are putting in the same effort, the only differences are MPH and distance covered.
*If they aren't, it isn't because you work harder on your heavy bike; it is because you don't work hard enough on your lighter bike. It's in your head.
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1723 days
Anton posted 45 weeks ago.
Have you tried it Sooner? If you haven't, try it for a season and let me know...;)
There is really one way to KNOW something...and that is to experience it for yourself.
It works for me...But I'm an experiment of one and everyone is different and all that other stuff.
And SK...nothing like more quality time with the kid!
"If e wishes to sweem in dangerous waters, oo are we to deny im?
-Chef Skinner
http://antonspath.blogspot.com
5318
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1999 days
kylie posted 45 weeks ago.
I'm not sure if I believe it is really that different physically, as sooner said, but I do believe it can be a HUGE mental difference. And we know that is also a big part of the game.
Personally, when I get on my mtn bike, I get into cruise mode and just want to enjoy the day! The same, unfortunately for Mike, seems to go with when I'm on the back of the tandem ;)
Miles of Life --- Powered by MarkyV
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1445 days
tri-ac posted 45 weeks ago.
if you can push X watts to pull 50 extra pounds and you then lose those pounds for a race, it seems you will have extra watts to put into extra speed.
no different than losing weight
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415 days
bes5920 posted 45 weeks ago.
TriSooner wrote:
500 watts on a beater MTB is the same as 500 watts on a Pinarello Prince
Definitely true but for those of us without power meters, or hills for that matter, a little extra resistance is helpful. Since I'm focused on my HR and have this aversion to cranking at 70rpm or less (purely psychological) having a trailer gives me something to pull against. I have this same problem on my trainer. One needs quite a bit of discipline to simulate hills - how long they should be, what progression of resistance should I be applying, etc.
Plus, my son loves to go for rides, so I get a workout, some quiet time for my wife and some father and son time in one shot!
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gfd posted 45 weeks ago.
Isn't it kind of like the weighted bat in the on-deck circle making the actual bat speed feel much faster than it is? Some even use a heavier and dead bat in batting practice. If so,it would be a great mental advantage for me to ride the lighter bike.
On the other side of the analogy is that some guys a played baseball with would never touch a weighted bat for fear of it screwing up their swing.
"If we help someone else up a steep hill, we get nearer to the top ourselves." ~Unknown~
~Garen~
http://baldhungariantriproject.blogspot.com/
3890
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1723 days
Anton posted 45 weeks ago.
Or like a weight vest for running.
Doing pull-ups with a pack of gear on so when you go climbing with less gear it feels easy.
Using training wheels then switching to race wheels.
Or swimming with a drag chute.
I agree...a huge mental difference. I have to ask a physicist about the impact of gravity and rolling resistance of big tires/wattage.
I take my road bike out to one of the local flat bike trails and do a TT of 20 miles and break an hour with no problem. When I take my MTB (Big street tires almost identical position) out and do the same thing, the RPE to break an hour is MUCH higher than on the road bike. Sometimes I'm over an hour.
"If e wishes to sweem in dangerous waters, oo are we to deny im?
-Chef Skinner
http://antonspath.blogspot.com
564
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677 days
xc800runner posted 45 weeks ago.
Anton wrote:
I have to ask a physicist about the impact of gravity and rolling resistance of big tires/wattage.
Not a physicist, but not too far off. Your frictional losses/rolling resistance are the result of weight acting over an area. Larger tires have a greater contact patch, and thus will create more resistance when rolling than your narrow road tires. You'll require more effort to sustain a given speed as a result of the added mass of a heavy bike and the wider tires increasing rolling resistance. For an MTB with slicks, I'd suspect the difference to be about 20-40W.
The most noticible effect of a heavy bike is the lack of acceleration. You need to speed up that additional rotating wheel mass and overall bike weight, which requires more power coming out of turns or on uphills. If you are on a technical course with tight turns, you will be much slower on a heavier bike (also remember that your MTB wheels are built to handle the rigors or off road use, so rims are heavier, spokes are heavier, tubes and tires a a lot heavier, thus increasing power requirements when accelerating/climbing).
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jnrice posted 45 weeks ago.
eh, ditch the trailer, take your race bike and go ride hills if you want to get strong.
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J.Michael posted 45 weeks ago.
Anton wrote:
Or like a weight vest for running.
Doing pull-ups with a pack of gear on so when you go climbing with less gear it feels easy.
Using training wheels then switching to race wheels.
Or swimming with a drag chute.
Anton, I think you're right on.
“Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm.”
— Winston Churchill
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415 days
bes5920 posted 45 weeks ago.
Anton wrote:
I have to ask a physicist about the impact of gravity and rolling resistance of big tires/wattage.
er, physicist here. Sooner hit the nail on the head - 500W on any bike is 500W. What is really key is cranking out the power. If you've got the discipline to switch to a high gear on flats and run a low cadence (as you would on a big hill) the effect is the same. You use the drag shoot and the weight belt in those other sports because you don't have gears.
xc800runner makes an excellent point. It's one thing to use high gears on a flat piece of road to simulate the extra weight but who's got the discipline to stay there while maneuvering? MTB wins here (or trailer).
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1445 days
tri-ac posted 45 weeks ago.
bes5920 wrote:
er, physicist here. Sooner hit the nail on the head - 500W on any bike is 500W. What is really key is cranking out the power. If you've got the discipline to switch to a high gear on flats and run a low cadence (as you would on a big hill) the effect is the same. You use the drag shoot and the weight belt in those other sports because you don't have gears.
sorry if i'm dense...
are you telling me that a #150 bike + rider putting out 500W will not travel further than a #200 bike + rider putting out 500W on the same course under the same conditions?
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2081 days
beads1985 posted 45 weeks ago.
I am believer in using the heavy bike for training. It is also a lot of fun to ride on my MTB somedays.
Now if 500W on any bike is 500W on any bike, are you saying rolling resistance and weight not factors?
'Nothing to it, but to do it!'
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415 days
bes5920 posted 45 weeks ago.
tri-ac wrote:
are you telling me that a #150 bike + rider putting out 500W will not travel further than a #200 bike + rider putting out 500W on the same course under the same conditions?
No, we were talking about effort and training load. If you were to compare speed of the two bikes, each propelled with 500W, the lighter bike with less rolling resistance would go faster.
POWER = (FORCE*DISPLACEMENT)/TIME = (mass*acceleration*displacement)/time
if power, displacement and acceleration are held constant, but mass goes down then time must go down too - i.e. time per displacement goes down - you go faster.
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azmojo804 posted 45 weeks ago.
bes5920 wrote:
POWER = (FORCE*DISPLACEMENT)/TIME = (mass*acceleration*displacement)/time
if power, displacement and acceleration are held constant, but mass goes down then time must go down too - i.e. time per displacement goes down - you go faster.
Perfect! That's the key to this whole thing.
I think of it as weight training...if that's a good analogy. But, with biking, how can you add weight and resistance? Trailer, backpack, 400 water bottles...... :) I personally don't want to buy a trailer, the backpack hurts my lower back after 15-30 minutes, and 400 water bottles would be rediculous (but just sounds like a fun challenge).
I guess you could push a higher gear on a lighter bike, use a power meter, go an extra hour or two, but maybe it'd be just easier to use a heavy/old bike...
Pumping at 18 mph on my mountain bike means I can usually go about 26-28 mph pumping on my road bike. No, I can't do that for too long, but it's a fun jump to make.
2766
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1445 days
tri-ac posted 45 weeks ago.
bes5920 wrote:
tri-ac wrote:are you telling me that a #150 bike + rider putting out 500W will not travel further than a #200 bike + rider putting out 500W on the same course under the same conditions?If you were to compare speed of the two bikes, each propelled with 500W, the lighter bike with less rolling resistance would go faster.
agreed, that makes sense ("further" or "faster" works here, other things being equal)
bes5920 wrote:
No, we were talking about effort and training load. [...] POWER = (FORCE*DISPLACEMENT)/TIME = (mass*acceleration*displacement)/time
if power, displacement and acceleration are held constant, but mass goes down then time must go down too - i.e. time per displacement goes down - you go faster.
so, what you're saying here is: if i train with heavier loads, i'm training to change my power capability...that is what, in turn, allows me to be more efficient on the lighter rig: higher power output.
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SerialKiller posted 45 weeks ago.
azmojo804 and to whom it may concern:
http://www.instructables.com/tag/?q=trailer&limit:type:id=on&type:id=on&...
bike trailer plans. build one then throw some bricks, a kid or some old person (make sure they're really old, like 35.) and you got a weighted bike training session.
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324 days
SerialKiller posted 45 weeks ago.
oh, and they even have some that are "fast handling" which might make your bike more practical to ride to say the supermarket.
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568 days
azmojo804 posted 45 weeks ago.
nice link...I've never been to that site...I was detoured along my search for the bike trailer by the wind turbine. :)
so there is this guy who ride around here, up to a week ago he rode an old bike with a trailer, the the next day he was on what looked like a brand new super duper cool bike, i had seen him on it before but mostly on the old bike. i asked him about it and he said he had a race in a couple of weeks, and the old bike was so he would be weighted down and build more muscle and endurance, plus the nice bike would feel like nothing compared.
does this actually work or is it in his head?