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Base Training Question

paganopj's picture
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started by paganopj on December 16, 2008

As a newbie, I am trying to learn to train effectively. I have been reading a lot about base training. Seems like, at my fitness level, I have to go way too slow before I can get the HR below about 140 which is around where I am supposed to be. In biking that is around 13mph @ 90+ cadence. In running I pretty much have to walk to be below 140 but then I'm down below 115. I don't see how I can make any advances this way.

When I started from sedentary in late May 08, I was 267 @ 5' 8" and didn't really pay attention to HR and just rode my bike more and more each week. Now I am 205. Apparently I did something right but it seems almost counter productive to keep the HR this low. I don't want to burn out though.

Thoughts appreciated.

Just keep spinning....spinning, spinning....uh, do I know you?
(Blog)The Losing Journey Flickr Cycling Log

jsk85's picture
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jsk85 posted 1 year ago.

I'd try using percieved exertion as a judge along with HR to be more accurate. There are a lot of things that effect HR and not everyone's HR zones are in the same range. For instance, my running HR has always been high...I do long marathon training runs in the low 160s avg and usually feel like I'm not working very hard.

Try monitoring how you feel at different HRs to get a better idea of where you need to be pace wise, or just try working w/o the HR monitor for a while so you can get a better idea of pacing without it...then you can use it to match up percieved exertion with your zones to get an idea of where you need to be.

I consider base training to be long workouts where my breathing is steady and relatively easy, and I can talk to people while not slowing down if I have to, but not constantly or I'll run out of breath or have to back off...very non-scientific but it works.

triath02's picture
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triath02 posted 1 year ago.

Just enjoy being active and forget the HR data. Training by HR has never worked for me.

Triguy98's picture
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Triguy98 posted 1 year ago.

HR training isnt always 100% dead on. Being sick, weather conditions, and current physical fitness all play into heart rate. That said, HR training is the best tool available to most of us. You just have to be utilizing it correctly.

First step, through and HR formulas out the window. all that number- age crap. Have you done a performance graded test for each of your sports yet? Repeat is every four weeks during a recovery week to tweak the numbers? If you performed these tests correctly and they gave you the numbers you are using, then they are likely correct, and your fitness level is indeed where it is.

It happens to pretty much everyone when they start HR training. They dont wanna believe the numbers. My buddy was calling me everyday for 3 weeks to complain that he had to run/ walk all the time. After a few weeks, your body get used to what you are asking it to do, you learn better pacing, and forward progress begins. This is why solid training plans have a prep phase, to train to train. Never start feet first in Base 1 unless youve been constantly training year round. You wont get the results you want untill your body goes through its period of adaptation.

How long have you been riding the bike? If you are new to it, then I can see your numbers not being wrong. You are wanting to go faster than you are ready for, and are willing to work harder than necessary to get there. Slow down, and slow your cadence down to 85+ instead of 90+ that will help you for a while. Get your pedaling technique down using drills like the one legged pedal and spin ups. Do these every ride. You look funny, but they are the way to get faster. I still do them and I have been riding almost 10 years now.

The key is patience. Wait through the period of adaptation, do what you need to do, then make forward progress.

Life is short. Play hard and get dirty doing it.

TriSooner's picture
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TriSooner posted 1 year ago.

As stated above, HR training doesn't work for everyone. If you are in good shape already, to keep the HR in the lower zones you may have to crawl. I imagine when you started from sedentary/260+ the HR method may have worked. But now, it seems like it is not a good indicator of exertion levels.

Conversely, you can also far exceed the upper limits of HR training (ie, you may be able hit 200+ on sprints and hills - and hold it) but the HR plan may never go above 170, 180 or so.

azmojo804's picture
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azmojo804 posted 1 year ago.

Complements on losing the 62 pounds this year! :) Did you use HR monitoring to lose that weight? What did you do scientifically (HR monitor, power meter, etc.)? Or, did you just bike?

If you just biked, then I say that you just use the perceived exertion as jsk85 mentioned.

Not to say there is any best method, but I personally can't keep up with the HR monitoring. I just go out and exercise. If I'm supposed to push hard, I push hard, if it's a long run, I make sure I'm not pushing too hard, etc. Not exactly a science on that method, but it has been working nicely for me.

paganopj's picture
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paganopj posted 1 year ago.

I just biked and never used the HR monitor until recently. While I am fairly slow due to being sedentary so long (and I'm still well overweight according to published standards for my height), my resting heart rate has responded well and is generally at 50bpm or below so my guess is I did something right.

I have been biking since June 01, 2008 and only started running in late October when I decided I wanted to tackle triathlons. I intend to pick up swimming sometime in Jan when I can get a Y membership.

I figure since I was lazy for the first 39 years, I might spend the rest doing more productive, healthy things.

Just keep spinning....spinning, spinning....uh, do I know you?
(Blog)The Losing Journey Flickr Cycling Log

tri-ac's picture
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tri-ac posted 1 year ago.

You may find people who say HR training is worthless, but my experience hearing this is that these folks are not starting training from scratch. I found it quite useful as an adult returning to an active lifestyle.

My first training program began using a HR based program (Shape of Your Life, from Outside Magazine). Like you, I was frustrated at how slow zone 1 & 2 really were. And, I ended up skipping ahead a bit to just get myself running (not walking or even fast walking). This ended up being fine and around the end of month two I started to see my HR fall in line with the prescribed zone for the workouts (they kept runs pretty aerobic (up to zone 3) until the 4th month, if I remember correctly). I was then able build on that and to speed up a little and maintain the prescribed HR zone. I don't train by HR now, but I do wear my HRM during all my workouts and record the average/max HR. I find it helpful in understanding how I'm progressing.

When I started previous training efforts, I always pushed too hard and overdid things. The HR monitor was great for me because I had grand memories of being an athlete back in the day. The HR targets helped me get past the point where I would get injured or blow up.

HR training basically teaches you what it feels like at the typical training intensities that you'll find recommended in various plans and by various coaches. They all have some form of intensity recommendations for different elements of a plan: easy, aerobic, threshold & anaerobic. Once you understand those metrics, the HR monitor becomes just that: a monitor. It's use then becomes data fodder for your training log so that you can track trends in training.

As others have stated above, HR can be variable relative to consistent pace or effort. Heat, humidity, elevation and other environmental factors can boost or depress your HR. But, if you understand that this differential exists for those conditions (especially if you're able, via a log, to create a history of how your body responds in different conditions), the HR monitor can still be very useful in your training.

Good luck in your continued training! It sounds like you've made a lot of progress already! Keep us updated on how it's going and, of course, welcome to Trifuel!

tri-ac's picture
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tri-ac posted 1 year ago.

And once you get to understand your body's reactions to the various efforts, then it's time to start training by pace and power.

But don't stress over it, you have a long time to grow your training and improve. This is a lifestyle change, and it doesn't happen overnight.

TryScott's picture
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TryScott posted 1 year ago.

It's hard to say how much I stuck to the plan, but I can promise you that I shuffled a lot of miles, and I've improved a lot. My perception of shuffle is 10 min miles, and walking up hills. The catch is, it's impossible to know if I would of improved more on another plan.

I'd have to say that most of my shufflying started a month or two before a 5k in July, 2007. Ran it in 24+ min. By April of 2008, I did a 5k in 20:01. My other distances improved as well, but that's just the easiest one I had to compare apples to apples.

paganopj's picture
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paganopj posted 1 year ago.

Thanks everyone for your comments. This helps quite a bit.

Just keep spinning....spinning, spinning....uh, do I know you?
(Blog)The Losing Journey Flickr Cycling Log