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Why do we race on 19th Century engineering?

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started by PrinceofClydes on October 21, 2008

Yeah, hats off to 'bekah Keat who gave Chrissie a blower-upper.
and to whomever it was who gave Riccitello a spare at St. Croix several years ago when he flatted while leading that race - with no spares, no pump, no CO2, just blind hope.

Now, isn't it about time some engineer wizards out there put their minds to designing a better inflation system?

It's been more than a hundred years since the Presta & Schrader valves were invented & patented. Since then we have invented the jet engine, put men on the moon and built computers & the internet, why can't we inflate a friggin' rubber tire?

We saw Norman self-destruct over a flat which prevented him from repeating and cost him a lot of money!

We saw Chrissie miss setting a near certain world record and possibly a huge paycheck because of her inflation system.

A new frame pump has to be replaced at $40 per, every 3 or 4 years merely because the little rubber grommets that fit over the tire valve wear out and leak. CO2 cartridges are one-use.
Anyone who has fixed a flat standing in the cold rain on the roadside being sprayed by semis would drop a day's pay to avoid that experience.

It isn't just about costing elite racers a few minutes. A Billion Chinese ride bicycles, and another few hundred million people in India, double that in N.A & Europe.

There's a $100 million dollars on the table for anyone who solves this problem.

What kind of inflation system back-up did NASA have on the moon-buggy? I bet it wasn't a mini-pump.

PoC

"It was a joke folks...I know what a "brazilian" is..."
- Anton

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Anton posted 1 year ago.

I'll get on it!
You are so right...isn't there something better? Wouldn't it be great if you could just blow up the bloody things like a balloon?
Oh...I believe the moon buggy had a flexible stainless steel mesh tire. I get on that too!
Here's a link!
http://www.boingboing.net/2008/04/21/duct-tape-saved-apol.html

"A little nonsense now and then is cherished by the wisest men."

http://antonspath.blogspot.com

beads1985's picture
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beads1985 posted 1 year ago.

Some kind of solid tire might work. I have seen some at a bike show and they were very light and easy to install.

From the San Francisco Chronicle

Tougher Bicycle Tires Hitting Market
They're designed to prevent punctures, pump up the sport
Paul McHugh, Chronicle Outdoors Writer

Thursday, July 27, 0

Lab techs in Morgan Hill put bike tires through tortures of the damned. A new, Kevlar-armored tire called the Armadillo is clamped under a hydraulic ram that inexorably lowers a sharpened steel spike. At five pounds of pressure -- when most tires will pop -- the Armadillo merely dimples.

The manufacturer, a company called Specialized, admits a determined assailant with a honed ice pick might be able to hole this new tire. But for all practical threats -- broken glass, nails and goat-head thorns -- the Armadillo is presumed impregnable.

``On top of nylon and Kevlar layers, we added very durable tread rubber,'' Specialized designer Al Clark said. ``An average user will be able to go 2,500 to 3,000 miles on these without a puncture. They just won't get flats anymore.''

Ladies and gentlemen, extract your debit cards. The Puncture-Free Century is about to crank up. And in the months to come, Specialized won't be the only firm bidding for your tire-buying bucks. A Nevada firm, Amerityre, claims it has found its own no- flat alternative in its solid bike tires, made of closed-cell, polyurethane foam.

``Ours is the no-maintenance tire,'' said Richard Steinke, founder of Amerityre. ``I think it's good enough to replace 90 percent of what's out there. That's the key to get people riding their bikes again: Give them gear that's maintenance-free.''

While the two firms have widely divergent ways to solve the threat of flats, they do see eye-to-eye on basic marketing philosophy. Expert cyclists may pride themselves on their speed and skill at patching punctures, but the task is repugnant to casual cyclists.

Anything that nudges people off their bikes hurts business. The National Sporting Goods Manufacturers Association says the number of U.S. cyclists who rode at least once per year fell from 56.9 million in 1989 to 42.4 million in 1999.

Bright spots dispel some gloom: Cycling overall may have dropped, but mountain biking rose, going from 10.5 million participants in 1993 to 15.1 million in 1999. That counter-trend is quite visible in California, where citizens are 2.58 times as likely to be seen riding mountain bikes on pavement as in other states, and 1.48 times as likely to ride off-road.

``We think flats lead the list of things that keep people from riding,'' Specialized's Clark said. ``All those bikes that sit in garages, unridden, nine times out of 10 the only thing wrong with them is a flat tire.''

Specialized has been on a long roll with its tires. Mike Sinyard started the firm in 1974, in a San Jose trailer park, as a supplier of Italian components. In 1981, Specialized hit the big time by introducing the world's first production mountain bike, the Stumpjumper. As part of its push to the high end of the market, Specialized began to design and build its own tires. Tire sales now form 8 percent of a $200 million gross in worldwide sales.

Specialized has had armored tires in its line before. The ``Flak Jacket'' system, introduced in 1998, deployed a dense layer of chopped Kevlar fibers floating in elastomer. The new Armadillo uses this Flak Jacket goo to impregnant a layer of woven Kevlar fiber. That's put on top of an ``Iron Curtain'' nylon sidewall sheet to form a tough sandwich.

Like Specialized, the Amerityre history has at its core a determined maverick. Steinke, raised in a Cincinnati orphanage, obtained a degree in economics after an army stint. While a contractor in Arizona, he grew enamored of using polyurethane in building construction. His expertise in shaping this material came in handy when he was asked to form the first urethane skateboard wheels in the 1980s.

Since then, Steinke has developed and licensed technologies for using the material in everything from forklift tires to tiles. His breakthrough on bike tires came when he figured out how to seal bubbles -- up to a million per tire -- in a closed cell urethane foam with a toughened surface skin.

Both the Specialized and Amerityre concept bike tires are in retail, but their big marketing pushes are just now reaching the launch pad. Another similarity is that, although at first glance these tires may look like dreams come true, when analyzed, they both seem a step shy of perfect.

For example, the Specialized Armadillo does wind up weighing a bit more than a comparable, conventional model. A 700x23c road tire, for example, at 370 grams, is 40-50 percent heavier than a conventional road race tire. It's only 3-5 ounces more, but that's ''rotational weight'' -- which adds gyroscopic stability on downhills but adds pedaling drag on uphills. Individual racers will have to consider whether a no-flat trade-off is worth these performance changes. The tire will make ripping downhills a lot safer.

``We're not really targeting this at the super-enthusiast,'' Sinyard said. ``Right now, our principal aim is the mainstream enthusiast who just wants to avoid flats.''

Amerityre's new model may suffer from association with an early technology, which Steinke licensed to a British maker named Greentyre in 1989. Some cyclists found those urethane tires stiff and dull, and they acquired flat spots when skidded.

Steinke said Greentyres used open-cell urethane foam. His new closed-cell technique creates superior liveliness and rebound, while a tougher skin vanquishes the flat spots. Independent lab tests released by his company indicate a residual stiffness slightly beyond that of conventional tires -- at the same time they show desirable characteristics such as more UV-light and abrasion resistance.

Steinke also has a new ace up his sleeve to be unveiled at bike shows in the fall: a closed-cell urethane tire that also has an inflatable, inner chamber so riders can adjust rebound and pressure to preference.

Let the tire wars commence.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

NAIL-BEATING TIRES
-- Specialized -- Currently offers three off-road models of Armadillo, and two on-road models, one of which comes in five sizes. Retail cost is $30 (conventional tires cost $20-25). Coming in September: a new BMX Armadillo, which will be slightly cheaper; and a new road-race tire with a Kevlar bead, shaving off 90 of those unwanted grams, which will be a bit more expensive. If you can't find Specialized tires in your local shop, they can be bought via the Web, at www.specialized.com. (408) 779-7661. -- Amerityre -- Offers tires in four sizes: 26-inch ($29.95), 24-inch ($28.95), 20-inch ($27.95) and 16-inch ($26.95). Available in three treads (mountain bike, road bike and all-terrain) and two colors (black and high-visibility yellow, for kid safety). To maximize good fit, the firm offers two tire-wheel sets for most bikes (ranging $89.90-$83.90 for all four sizes; add another $20 for aluminum wheel sets). Most easily available via the Web now, at www.amerityre.com. (800) 808-1268.

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2000/07/27/SP37334.DTL

This article appeared on page D - 7 of the San Francisco Chronicle

'Nothing to it, but to do it!'

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Anton posted 1 year ago.

OK...I'm thinking it's a slow night at work for Beads!

"A little nonsense now and then is cherished by the wisest men."

http://antonspath.blogspot.com

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beads1985 posted 1 year ago.

Anton wrote:
I'll get on it!
You are so right...isn't there something better? Wouldn't it be great if you could just blow up the bloody things like a balloon?
Oh...I believe the moon buggy had a flexible stainless steel mesh tire. I get on that too!
Here's a link!
http://www.boingboing.net/2008/04/21/duct-tape-saved-apol.html

Duct tape, wonderful Duct tape, Is there nothing it can't do? ;-)

'Nothing to it, but to do it!'

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Anton posted 1 year ago.

A solid duct tape tire?

"A little nonsense now and then is cherished by the wisest men."

http://antonspath.blogspot.com

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deepbluex posted 1 year ago.

how about fitting a small refillable high pressure tank inside the downtube of the bike so you can connect a small connecting hose from the outlet at the frame to the tire inflation nipple? That way you're not wasting empty CO2 cartridges and you don't have to break the aerodynamics of the bike by adding another voluminous object to carry around.

You'd refill the onboard tank at your leisure with a small air compressor or pump.

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gshuldes posted 1 year ago.

I disagree ... presta valves are reliable, easy to use, relatively light, easy to make, widely available, inexpensive, etc., etc. ... A classic case of a simple engineering solution that has withstood the test of time.

Knowing how to change a flat and being prepared to do it on race day is part of the race. I don't think that either of Stadler's flats had anything to do with the valve. And from what I have read, Wellington's problems were due to using the inflator incorrectly.

I agree that "standing in the cold rain on the roadside being sprayed by semis" is no fun, but a different valve isn't going to prevent the flat in the first place ... and you're still going to have to stand there and change it.

BTW ... the moon buggy did not have pneumatic tires.

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stewarba posted 1 year ago.

Pure economics at this point my friends. The people who make the parts have already invested in the technology and the equipment to mass produce it, so the profit margin is huge. Once Anton invents a replacement, some manufacturer has to spend the money to pay him for his invention, market the replacement to convince people that they need this new solution and finally the cost to equip a facility to produce Anton's invention. The price has to be competitive with the exisitng technology so the manufacturer is probably looking at several years before they see any real measurable ROI and there is a huge risk that the consumer base will only partially make the switch.

Not to mention that the manufacturer who is most apt to pursue this probably is competing against themselves.

Pain is the sensation of weakness leaving the body!

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deepbluex posted 1 year ago.

I wonder if something like an aerogel filled tire might give you the ride quality without flatting. Basically a solid tire but not filled with heavy rubber but a lightweight compound of some kind.

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PrinceofClydes posted 1 year ago.

See? Now we have bright people with imagination addressing the problem!

That's what I wanted.
Dear, dear gshuldes, when the 2-sided safety razor replaced the straight razor lotsa folks thought the Millennium had arrived.
..then came the twin blade and we all sighed with relief.
But wait! ..
then a triple-blade!! Wow! It can't get any better than that! Right?

Hey 8-tracks were better than scratchy, skippy, crackly vinyl, but..
along came cassettes!
Then CDs.
Then MP3s, then iPods.

We thought colour TV was just the ultimate, now we have HDTV

Are you gonna sit there and tell me we can't do better than a rubber tube that deflates if you bump it removing it from your trunk!!!??

or runs over a pebble in the dark.

No, I know we can do better, and for less cost and faster..

There has been little competition for Continental and Axion and the few mfgs out there. (that's "manufacturers" boys, I wasn't cursing them out, but some nights I'd like to!)
With fuel costs rising and environmental concerns, as well as there are billions of people riding bikes now and billions more who will be, we need something better. The profit incentive is vast, the need is great and who is going to tell the mfgs we need better? Us.

A hundred years ago there weren't internet forums of users like us to inform the mfgs and the entrepeneurs and the engineers that there is a vast sucking hole in the technology needs for cyclists.

Don't settle for, "That's the way my grandfather inflated his tires so that's good enough for me!"

Get those thinking caps on, people!
Write your Congressman!

PoC

"It was a joke folks...I know what a "brazilian" is..."
- Anton

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jwillia852 posted 1 year ago.

In my world nothing is more 'racey' than a 800 horsepower sprint car or midget - The technology we use to maintain our tires is anything but antiquated - So maybe the cycling world should borrow some ideas from their ingenious motorized cousins!

For the bike: I would use various parts of the hollow frame as a chamber. To start you can either seal off both ends or insert a high compression sleeve during production... then place a high compression coupler at both ends to provide a source for a small coil air feed (either mobile or built in). The end result will make the bike itself the coolest, slickest air source on the course...

Next, and most important, is the air itself - nothing is worse for maintaining proper tire pressure than compressed air. When maintaining open wheel race car tires, moisture in ambient air can fluctuate the pressures depending on the amount of moisture in the air; heat accelerating the process. To keep our tire (and shock) pressures in check, we use Nitrogen.

Nitrogen has a much more consistent rate of expansion and is often used to fill high pressure tires like those on aircraft... and as far as I'm concerned, a bike tire is about as high pressure as it gets.

Now this may all not be the most practical but fun thinking about anyway! :-)

Jeff

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gshuldes posted 1 year ago.

Again ... I disagree. I am not saying that what we have is the ultimate system ... just that it is very good and cost effective. I also disagree that there is little competition in the marketplace ... I would argue the exact opposite. As an inventor that holds 7 US patents for products that are sold worldwide, I feel like I know a little bit about this type of issue.

Chain/sprocket systems are far older technology than pneumatic tires. Ball bearings have been around far longer as well. These systems are still in use not because of a lack of creative minds looking for alternatives (alternatives do exist), or a lack of competition in the industry (Shimano, Campagnolo, SRAM, etc. compete rather fiercely) ... rather, their cost/performance/reliability/weight/etc. are hard to beat.

And really ... "deflates if you bump it removing it from your trunk!!!??" ... "or run over a pebble in the dark". The system is quite a bit more reliable than that.

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Toothless posted 1 year ago.

I saw an Interbike pic of a new hub that has a hose connected to the tube valve and as you ride the hub somehow adds air to the tire. Scroll down a few pics:
http://www.fixedgeargallery.com/reports/interbike2008/day3/index2.html

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Nobody posted 1 year ago.

I see a lot of people with sew-ups flatting during races. Far more than standard tires/tubes. I've flatted maybe twice in about 5000 miles--and never during a race.

With that said, I agree with gshuldes....cost/performance/weight of current tires/tubes are hard to beat.

My one complaint--cars and motorcycles require far less maintenance than a bike and have 1000 times the number of parts. Perhaps Toyota or Honda should start building TT bikes?

Greatness is only achieved by those who perpetually raise the expectations of themselves to the point where it ruins their life.

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jsk85 posted 1 year ago.

Nobody wrote:

My one complaint--cars and motorcycles require far less maintenance than a bike and have 1000 times the number of parts. Perhaps Toyota or Honda should start building TT bikes?

I'd have to say this has to do with thier parts being much more robust and less exposed...if they were dealing with the driving forces of bike mfg, weight reduction and aerodynamics, I doubt they'd do any better.

You don't see motorcyclists and car collectors comparing the fully built-up weight of their vehicles very often.

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TryScott posted 1 year ago.

Last weekend I found my bike with a completely flat tire. I've only had one flat in the 15 months I've owned a bike, so I've only ever changed it once, and I've never used CO2. My first HIM is next weekend, so I thought that this would be good practice. It took me forever, and it didn't help my confidence at all. After using the CO2, I connected my pump and there was only 40 lbs of air. Not good. I topped off the air with my floor pump and started my ride on the trainer. 29 minutes later, I got a flat.... yes, while on the trainer. Now my confidence is really hurting.

Needless to say, I'll be picking up however many tubes and co2 I think I can duct tape to my bike for the race. I'll ride into T2 on the rim if I have to. I'm not going to DNF my first HIM because of a flat.

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xc800runner posted 1 year ago.

jsk85 wrote:
You don't see motorcyclists and car collectors comparing the fully built-up weight of their vehicles very often.

My lotus weighs 1968 lbs dry, will run 180 mph on a track with the suspension lowered, and hasn't had a single problem in 11,000 miles I haven't caused myself. I think they've done pretty well. And made the thing for a reasonable price, too (plus I get 29-30 mpg on the highway).

TryScott wrote:
Needless to say, I'll be picking up however many tubes and co2 I think I can duct tape to my bike for the race. I'll ride into T2 on the rim if I have to. I'm not going to DNF my first HIM because of a flat.

If you have to ride on the rim, pull out the tube and replace the tire. You'll wobble around a bit, but will have a smoother ride than with the tube still in. Every time you come around to the valve on a flat, it slips around inside the rim and thunks. Makes for a very bumpy and unenjoyable ride. I've ridden 30+ miles like this, but on easily truable, 3 cross 36 spoke rear, so it wasn't all that uncomfortable.

As for the flat, pull the tube out and look at it. You will probably have what looks like a cut in the side of it from getting it pinched between the bead and rim when installing the tire. It's pretty common, especially for those who haven't changed tubes often. If not, and you have just a small puncture hole, take your tire off the rim and inspect the inside. Run over it with a wet rag and look for any debris that may have come through, like shards of glass, etc. Also, you may need to change your tires if you haven't yet. 15 months of riding can be a lot of miles, and tires should be replaced after 3-5k miles, depending on what you're riding (big, thick cruiser tires or slick mountain tires can get a lot more, Zipp tangente tubulars will get susbtantially less, for example). Worn tires will be more prone to punctures.

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xc800runner posted 1 year ago.

POC -

What's going on with the new 'tubeless' road tires? Supposedly equal or better rolling resistance to clinchers, lighter, and more reliable than tubulars. This doesn't address the valve issue, per se, but with the integration of a valve into the rim, you could remove the weakness in the current system at the valve, where the tube and valve are melded together. This seems to be working fine for MTB's and is built on the same principles of cars (which have considerably more money for research and development and haven't found any better, cost efficient method yet).

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beads1985 posted 1 year ago.

xc800runner wrote:
jsk85 wrote:
You don't see motorcyclists and car collectors comparing the fully built-up weight of their vehicles very often.

My lotus weighs 1968 lbs dry, will run 180 mph on a track with the suspension lowered, and hasn't had a single problem in 11,000 miles I haven't caused myself. I think they've done pretty well. And made the thing for a reasonable price, too (plus I get 29-30 mpg on the highway).

Your motorcycle is really heavy and not so fuel efficient.

My 1997 Saturn (manual transmission) has a curb weight of about 2,414.06 pounds, and I get 28 mpg city and 38 mpg highway.

Oooops,
Is that a Lotus 123 car?

I thought that you were referring to a motorcycle I never heard of. ;-)

'Nothing to it, but to do it!'

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jwillia852 posted 1 year ago.

xc800runner wrote:

My lotus weighs 1968 lbs dry, will run 180 mph on a track with the suspension lowered

Sorry, but I highly and quite confidently doubt that - thats 911 range and Lotus has never produced anything to touch anything close to 180

Jeff

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beads1985 posted 1 year ago.

jwillia852 wrote:
xc800runner wrote:

My lotus weighs 1968 lbs dry, will run 180 mph on a track with the suspension lowered

Sorry, but I highly and quite confidently doubt that - thats 911 range and Lotus has never produced anything to touch anything close to 180

Well, they now have Toyota making the engine on this so it won't explode like a typical Lotus aver few hundred miles ;-)

'Nothing to it, but to do it!'

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xc800runner posted 1 year ago.

jwillia852 wrote:
xc800runner wrote:

My lotus weighs 1968 lbs dry, will run 180 mph on a track with the suspension lowered

Sorry, but I highly and quite confidently doubt that - thats 911 range and Lotus has never produced anything to touch anything close to 180

The elise sport with lowered suspension on a speedway has hit 181 with no other modifications (Standard body package, engine, etc.). My completely stock set-up topped out at 149 (FYI - the Esprit V8 would run 180 off the showroom floor: http://www.hazelnet.org/lotus/). The 911 will run over 190 in similar conditions.

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jwillia852 posted 1 year ago.

xc800runner wrote:

The elise sport with lowered suspension on a speedway has hit 181 with no other modifications (Standard body package, engine, etc.). My completely stock set-up topped out at 149. The 911 will run over 190 in similar conditions.

Hmmm, thats roughly 20% increase by simply lowering it... not gonna happen - 160 tops, with the wind.

And the stock 911 is no where near 190 in any condition...

Jeff

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PrinceofClydes posted 1 year ago.

xc800runner wrote:
POC -

What's going on with the new 'tubeless' road tires? Supposedly equal or better rolling resistance to clinchers, lighter, and more reliable than tubulars. This doesn't address the valve issue, per se, but with the integration of a valve into the rim, you could remove the weakness in the current system at the valve, where the tube and valve are melded together. This seems to be working fine for MTB's and is built on the same principles of cars (which have considerably more money for research and development and haven't found any better, cost efficient method yet).

I have no personal experience with a tubeless system.
I welcome innovation. My purpose in this thread, which lets' face it, isn't likely - by itself - to change the world of cycling, but if there are enough others who are frustrated to the point of anger, disdain, cynicism with the whole tire - tube - valve - pump system, who knows, is to set a fire alight in the mind and under the butts of clever people who can provide better alternatives.

"Works quite well and isn't too expensive" ought not to be the guiding principle of a system on which world record performances depend. When Olympic Gold is on the line or a 6-figure paycheque - with millions in endorsements to follow, we want technology that delivers to a more reliable level than the human athlete depending on it.

The body may break down in a record-setting race, and $$ millions have been spent on refining training methods / nutrition / other systems: shoes, pants, gloves, bikes, swimskins, to pare seconds off the goal. But the part where the bike meets the road is an iffy proposition, cf. the experiences of Stadler / Wellington.
We can plan intensively, covering every aspect of equipment / nutrition / training, spent mucho dolares on a set of wheels or a new aero-frame to save those seconds that mean the difference between a podium and 4th place, between top ten and no paycheque, between Hawaii and another year as a spectator, and if we get a flat we are expected to shrug and say, oh well??

If the yellow jersey gets a flat, 188 riders, dozens of support vehicles and millions of viewers have to take a break while the offending rubber balloon is replaced?

That's not a system sensible people would stake a lot of money and effort on, if they had a choice. Yet as of this writing we have no choice.

Imagine if the Tour had a rule about "outside help" as triathlon does. We might see better tires / inflation systems a lot sooner.

As I said there are billions of bike riders in this world. It's not just about a dozen riders at the elite level. I expect a trickle down of technology to the rest of us who will hopefully be spared the worst of flatting experiences on a daily basis as well.

Don't make this about me. I race on Conty Ultra Gatorskins and carry two tubes, and a patch kit at IM races. I have a LeSyne pump with a screw-on hose. I commute on tires suitable to seasonal road conditions, but I can see room for improvement.

I like some of the suggestions made above and especially welcome those views who share my vision of a more enjoyable riding / racing experience. If we settled for stuff that "worked okay and was cost effective," we'd still be using rotary dial phones.

Keep those ideas coming.

Geoff

"It was a joke folks...I know what a "brazilian" is..."
- Anton

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Socket posted 1 year ago.

Time might be to start from scratch on the whole tire idea. Start with the bike and wheels as exists and come up with new ways to put rotating force in contact with road surface as effectively as possible.

Tires flat because they rely on compressed air for structural stability. They've made car tires that don't rely on being filled with compressed air: http://www.fastcoolcars.com/airless-tires.htm . Why couldn't something similar be done with bicycle tires?

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PrinceofClydes posted 1 year ago.

Right, Socket, that's the kind of innovative, "outside-the-box" thinking that I'm hoping for.
Note that the demo was on a TWO WHEELED scooter. Folks are bound to ask, "Why not bicycles too?"

Quote: "Aboard this self-balancing electric scooter, Thompson whizzed down the hallway and out to the lobby, pirouetting among the benches and planters to demonstrate the flexibility of the Tweel.

The Segway would be a small market for Michelin, the world's leading tire maker, but it is an apt demonstration vehicle for the Tweel. The first commercial use of the integrated tire and wheel assembly will be on the stair-climbing iBOT wheelchair, another product developed by Dean Kamen, the Segway's inventor. Michelin said it would announce another application at the Detroit auto show next week."

And that the application has already found use in the wheelchair market. The aging world population, at least in the developed West, may power this development - to the benefit of cyclists!

PoC

"It was a joke folks...I know what a "brazilian" is..."
- Anton

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xc800runner posted 1 year ago.

Applying the tweel to a wheelchair is fine, but refining it to function on a bicycle with the necessary lateral rigidity to permit cornering at speeds higher than 5 mph will be dificult. It will require either less flexion in the spokes or a considerably lower profile if the tread is to remain at ~20mm. Either of these options will create an extremely stiff ride, and will likely cause the treads to skid across the road, rather than contort enough to permit proper handling. When using primarily one wheel for grip when cornerning, rather than a pair side by side, I don't forsee these being an option.

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sbrstlouis posted 1 year ago.

I believe that we will eventually see flat-free solid tires that are a light and perform as well as inflatables. It's just a matter of time.....

Matt Cazalas
Technical Writer
Network Cables

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PrinceofClydes posted 1 year ago.

Ah, if all it took was belief! :)

then we wouldn't need six-week, or two-year-long political campaigns
then we wouldn't need condoms, religious wars, or oath-swearing at jury trials
and we would always have Santa Claus!

*sigh*

Somebody who knows how will still have to make 'em.

Incidentally, I too think solid, lightweight, durable, is the way to go. I look at the super skinny, low profile car tires on high performance street cars and I think we could handle the bumpier ride,

or, or we have better suspension systems?
Maybe Softride will experience a resurrection?
Solid tires and beam suspension? Same weight, no flats.

PoC

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Ironmom posted 1 year ago.

TryScott wrote:
Last weekend I found my bike with a completely flat tire. I've only had one flat in the 15 months I've owned a bike, so I've only ever changed it once, and I've never used CO2. My first HIM is next weekend, so I thought that this would be good practice. It took me forever, and it didn't help my confidence at all. After using the CO2, I connected my pump and there was only 40 lbs of air. Not good. I topped off the air with my floor pump and started my ride on the trainer. 29 minutes later, I got a flat.... yes, while on the trainer. Now my confidence is really hurting.

Needless to say, I'll be picking up however many tubes and co2 I think I can duct tape to my bike for the race. I'll ride into T2 on the rim if I have to. I'm not going to DNF my first HIM because of a flat.

Here's something for your peace of mind: Before you do all of that, take your tire off of your bike and check the inside for glass, metal, or other things that might cause your tube (or tire in the case of sew-ups) to puncture. Often times people just change the flat with another tube, and don't remove the object which is causing the flat in the first place. Before a race, if you don't have a separate set of racing wheels or tires, take your tires off and go over them, looking for splits, punctures, or any pieces of glass, etc. in the tire itself. Sometimes little bits of glass or whatever will work their way through the tire and eventually cause a flat. Inspect your tubes too if you have them, and the inside of your rims. Make sure all of the spoke-ends are covered up (where they lace into the rim, they can rub your if they're not covered) and then put it all back together and give it a test ride or two someplace with good clean road surfaces (like a bike path or sidewalk).

Also, an old European road racer taught me this technique: if you're out on a ride and you roll over any broken glass (assuming you're wearing a good pair of leather-palmed gloves), reach forward and cup your (gloved) hand around the tire lightly while riding. After a couple of revolutions of the tire, you should've picked up any bits of glass that were sticking to the tire but not yet gone into it. If you practice, you might be able to reach back between your back fork and do the rear tire too. I use this technique whenever I roll through anything questionable and have only gotten one flat in the last about 20,000 miles of riding.

I know a lot of racers don't really check their tires over thoroughly before a race. Short of rolling through a bed of tacks on a race course, there's really not too many reasons to flat during a race if you've done a good pre-race inspection of your tires, wheels, etc.

Blue Skies, -Robin-
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