New Onsite Registration Procedures for North America Sports Races
221
Member
77 days
jnrice posted 6 weeks ago.
Well that doesn't sound WAY to complicated. I understand the issue but wow, do I need to get certified in race registration?
This is why I like the local races with the little old ladies collecting your money and giving you a color coded popsicle stick telling you where your transition area is. One this is for sure, this sport is getting big, fast.
1008
Member
1194 days
PJT posted 6 weeks ago.
So if you don't go online to complete registration, do you forfeit your entry fee?
1190
Member
338 days
TriSooner posted 6 weeks ago.
kylie wrote:
What a joke. So you are waiting in line to have someone else sign you up on Active.com? Ha. I see a massive fail looming. Considering the massive suck that is Active, I'm sure they'll get the dreaded error message over and over. I'm sure no high-strung Type A tri-geek won't freak out after travelling for no real reason to Florida etc., standing in line for hours, watching someone else log onto a public website, handing over credit card information, and then told, "Uh, looks like the page isn't loading . . . hold on." Which races does NA manage again? I'll be sure to skip them.
Laptop computers will be used by our volunteers to take the prospective athlete’s contact and credit card information on-site. The volunteer will enter in the prospective athlete’s information directly into Active.
4483
Member
1635 days
kylie posted 5 weeks ago.
oops hit edit and it ended up posting twice instead.
4483
Member
1635 days
kylie posted 5 weeks ago.
Well I think the concept of signing up involving paying (and not just a waver to pay later) is a good one. But I'm also not sure how that whole "using active" thing is going to go.
1768
Member
1396 days
brittda posted 5 weeks ago.
kylie wrote:
Well I think the concept of signing up involving paying (and not just a waver to pay later) is a good one. But I'm also not sure how that whole "using active" thing is going to go.
Yeah, I agree. I expected to pay up front when I registered the first time--but no.
Ditto on the active thing, but we shall see.
1790
Member
1530 days
PrinceofClydes posted 5 weeks ago.
That's way convenient for people with credit cards, sure, but for those of us who don't use them cheque payment in years past was reasonable.
I bet they won't let my friend with the credit card into the area without an competitor's wristbavd. This being a friend whom I have already had to sweet talk and bribe to let me use their card, now I have to persuade them to come to Penticton and stand in line with me, deal with the hassle of ID/wristband issues as well??
Idiots!
Or are they saying they want to filter out the riff-raff who don't have A-1 credit ratings to up the quality of our demographics?
PoC
"Pain doesn't last, chicks dig scars, glory is forever!"
- Shane Falco.
4483
Member
1635 days
kylie posted 5 weeks ago.
PoC that is interesting how that will work. If you send them an email and find out what to do if you don't have a credit card, I'd be interested to see what their solution is.
1768
Member
1396 days
brittda posted 5 weeks ago.
PrinceofClydes wrote:
That's way convenient for people with credit cards, sure, but for those of us who don't use them cheque payment in years past was reasonable.I bet they won't let my friend with the credit card into the area without an competitor's wristbavd. This being a friend whom I have already had to sweet talk and bribe to let me use their card, now I have to persuade them to come to Penticton and stand in line with me, deal with the hassle of ID/wristband issues as well??
Idiots!
Or are they saying they want to filter out the riff-raff who don't have A-1 credit ratings to up the quality of our demographics?
PoC
Hey Geoff--
What about getting a prepaid cc. You can get them from AMEX, VISA, MC either on line or at the grocery store. I know it does not change the way they are doing registration but it would be a way to register :)
2936
Member
1358 days
Anton posted 5 weeks ago.
What was wrong with the voucher thing? So what if some folks don't sign up when they get home... if they have to put the unsigned up for slots on line two weeks later, what's the big deal? Although I did notice there seems to be a huge number of Community Fund slots still available...for races like IMLP and Canada. Maybe that's where they put them.
Just another little thing to say "We are a sport of those with high finances." (true, I know some aren't, but many are.)
With voucher in hand I signed up a friend of mine for IMLP this year and she handed me cash...it worked fine. A pre-paid would work...if they allow it.
Hey...wasn't NA Sports just bought by some investment company? (Suspicions abound)
"What would life be if we had no courage to attempt anything?" - Vincent Van Gogh
My Blog: http://agingsuperhero.blogspot.com
1008
Member
1194 days
PJT posted 5 weeks ago.
Anton wrote:
Hey...wasn't NA Sports just bought by some investment company? (Suspicions abound)
I think you may be on to something here.
1. It may cost NAS a bit extra to do an additional online offering of spots if all athletes do not activate their vouchers. Even if Active doesn't charge for a 2nd round, NAS still has to calculate open spots, advertise the second round of registration, etc. It's probably not much really, but an expense that they don't need to have with their events in such high demand.
2. More important, by getting all non-refundable payment 2 or 3 weeks earlier per race than they currently do, NAS gains a few extra dollars in interest on the money.
3. Plus there is the time and hassle of athletes whose voucher information was incorrectly entered onto active (or not entered at all). That happened to me this year, and I had to trade emails with active and NAS for a while to get everything resolved.
4483
Member
1635 days
kylie posted 5 weeks ago.
Anton wrote:
What was wrong with the voucher thing? So what if some folks don't sign up when they get home... if they have to put the unsigned up for slots on line two weeks later, what's the big deal?
Apparently a lot of people complained that online day-of registration closed really fast (since lots of vouchers were taken). They released more slots later once vouchers were no longer any good, but the people who had tried and not made it day of didn't always know when the new release dates were.
518
Member
1314 days
Tamara posted 5 weeks ago.
I suppose it's heresy to say this, but what if they went the other direction and eliminated on-site registration altogether other than maybe for the winners (Pro & AG)? That way everyone interested in participating in the next year's event has to be online at the same time just like in almost every other triathlon, marathon, etc... No special treatment for those who have already done it. No limiters for those who don't have the resources to travel to the race site a year in advance. Have registration open two weeks after the current race, that way this year's athletes don't have to rise early the day after an IM.
This is a business, granted, but if we want to talk "fair", what's more fair than that?
"It's very hard in the beginning to understand that the whole idea is not to beat the other runners. Eventually you learn that the competition is against the little voice inside you that wants you to quit." ~George Sheehan
1790
Member
1530 days
PrinceofClydes posted 5 weeks ago.
What's "fair" got to do with it?
If I support your business annually for half a decade ponying up hundreds of dollars a year in advance, I expect you to cut me a little slack, even give me a leg up on mere strangers from afar who show up once, make off with a finisher's medal and t-shirt, never to be seen again.
I'm a local, shop local, support local business year after year, I want a little preference thank you very much.
Dis the locals and the regular loyal supporters and see what it does to your volunteer base. Maybe nothing. It's a cruel world.
just a point of view for consideration. Discuss. :)
PoC
"Pain doesn't last, chicks dig scars, glory is forever!"
- Shane Falco.
2936
Member
1358 days
Anton posted 5 weeks ago.
+1
Altruism aside, I volunteer at IMLP and stand in the torrential rain for 13 hours at an aid station so I can get in next year...I want some preferential treatment.
I've been involved at IMLP for 7 years as a participant or Volunteer...I understand it. On site sign up is a great thank you.
The truth is...everyone will find something unfair about the whole process be it on line entry or on site entry or being able to buy your way into Kona.
I see Tamaras point...but getting rid of "on site" just doesn't seem right.
Maybe all the IM's should be by lottery...that way everyone has a fair chance and you won't be able to rack up a bizillion IM's just because you have a big wallet.
"What would life be if we had no courage to attempt anything?" - Vincent Van Gogh
My Blog: http://agingsuperhero.blogspot.com
1768
Member
1396 days
brittda posted 5 weeks ago.
On the flip side....
While yes you do support them you do not make up the entire 2700 people who register. IMC is not the only race they put on either. You have to think like a big business and as a business the way they plan to do it makes sense--FROM A BUSINESS STAND POINT. I am not saying you don't count as a human (I still love you-- don't tell hubby)but in the big scheme of things you don't . They are strictly numbers driven and if it means alienating a few people to get the numbers then that's the way it needs to be. Just like working for a big company, the bottom line is what matters and they are not out there to make friends.
I also don't think they even thought about people not having a credit card. Personally, I cannot imagine not having one (at the very least for an emergency). No I don't carry a balance, and it gets paid off every month not that it matters. But, you cannot even reserve a parking spot at the airport or rent a car with out one these days. If you can get by with out one then GOOD ON YOU! Like it or not, we are in the electronic banking age now and honestly I am sure their opinion is if you don't have one, someone else will just take your spot (having worked for software companies who forced customers to migrate to different services as technology grew, I know the attitude). Not saying I agree with it, just unfortunately the way it is. They are not doing it to keep non CC holders from doing the race, but rather to ensure payment. Perhaps a deposit at registration time in the form of check or cc would aleviate the problem. Not sure what the solution is, but I am glad I do not have to make the decision :)
p.s I don't see it as "dis-ing" the locals really. You can still stand in line, and register. They are simply asking for payment at the time you do--you have to make a decision as to whether you are going to REALLY do the race, may as well make it a couple of weeks earlier. It's not like you (the collective you) don't have the entire year before to think about it. No reason why you cannot get a prepaid cc if you need to they work like any other card.
518
Member
1314 days
Tamara posted 5 weeks ago.
Don't get me wrong -- I'm not a fair/unfair type of person. I referenced fair only because IMNA said in their press release above this new "system will ensure fairness".
PoC might be a local, but heck, this isn't a local company. It's like the circus or some other show coming to town once a year. And even if it were locally run, wouldn't you want the non-locals? Having you compete doesn't add to the economic benefit of the community since you already shop local, live local. Having all of us travel and vacation there, pay for hotels, pay for food, etc... infuses a ton of cash into the community's financial base. Why would you want to dis us?
I laud those who stand in the rain and make the trip year after year in order to insure a spot. But that's my point, why should you have to stand in the rain a year in advance in order to race? And what about hypothetical me, who's always wanted to do IM USA, but lives in California or Australia and can't afford TWO trips to upstate New York in a twelve month period. Out of curiousity, how many of the volunteers at any given IM are wannabes for the next year as opposed to locals or guests of the current athletes or something like that? Would IMNA fall short of volunteers if they didn't have folks like Anton willing to make the trip in '08 in order to race in '09?
At the end of the day, Brittda's right. The decision will be made based on the value proposition for the IMNA corporation. Whatever will bring in maximum revenue and ensure sell-out crowds year in and year out with a minimum of disgruntled "never again" participants will be the system they go with.
"It's very hard in the beginning to understand that the whole idea is not to beat the other runners. Eventually you learn that the competition is against the little voice inside you that wants you to quit." ~George Sheehan
2936
Member
1358 days
Anton posted 5 weeks ago.
Way off point..Tam! I love your quote! I had that on a poster, stuck on a bedroom wall, back in my single days! The Doc was so spot on when it comes to the deeper aspects of running.
"What would life be if we had no courage to attempt anything?" - Vincent Van Gogh
My Blog: http://agingsuperhero.blogspot.com
202
Member
1181 days
ht001 posted 5 weeks ago.
It is all getting a little too difficult to comprehend. Pretty soon we'll need coaching just to register for these things. (or at a minimum therapy for actually jumping through these hoops.)
Like Anton said, I do wonder why they wouldn't at least consider a lottery (a la some of the bigger marathons) or initiate some combination of a lottery and an identified series of qualifying races. Either way, I'm sure I'll be ready and willing to do what I need to do to toe the start line for my next one. Unless I wise up between now and then.
It is getting unfathomably complicated though.
518
Member
1314 days
Tamara posted 5 weeks ago.
Anton - any time you need motivation (not that that's necessary for you), I've got about a 4pg list of quotes like that. Pull them out when I need a kick in the pants. Hang a few in my office as a reminder. I've even carried them during races when I felt like I needed it. So yep, that one's a good one!
"It's very hard in the beginning to understand that the whole idea is not to beat the other runners. Eventually you learn that the competition is against the little voice inside you that wants you to quit." ~George Sheehan
22
Member
757 days
Kiwi posted 5 weeks ago.
If you haven't raced an IM before how do you get in now? I want to race IMAZ in 2009. Because there are two races this year there is a good chance that there won't be any online entries. I've signed up as a volunteer and am hoping to be able to enter the following day (flying down from Colorado!). We'll see how that goes.
Its a tough call for both sides. If you're a current athlete you've put time and money in and there should a benefit for it, but how do you introduce new people to the sport if they can't get into these races?
I think a lottery or qualifying system for at least some of the entries should be introduced.
edit - as someone else mentioned, how long will it be until you have to be part of an IM coaching program (great opportunity for IM to charge monthly fees) to be able to enter or get preferential entries etc.
41
Member
68 days
mtbke15 posted 5 weeks ago.
Looking at it from someone that is new to the IM scene and choosing to do IMKY because there are still spots available online. The issue of racers and volunteers being allowed to sign up the morning after the race I have no problem with. Where I see the problem being is that seeing as how the sport is booming and more and more people want to sign up, why not make the races bigger? Granted there are more logistical issues than a marathon of 45,000 people, but I am hard pressed to believe that NAS could not figure out how to add another 1000 people to the more popular races and have more accesses to online registration.
"What counts in training is what you do once the pain sets in." John Short, South African Coach
1768
Member
1396 days
brittda posted 5 weeks ago.
mtbke15 wrote:
Looking at it from someone that is new to the IM scene and choosing to do IMKY because there are still spots available online. The issue of racers and volunteers being allowed to sign up the morning after the race I have no problem with. Where I see the problem being is that seeing as how the sport is booming and more and more people want to sign up, why not make the races bigger? Granted there are more logistical issues than a marathon of 45,000 people, but I am hard pressed to believe that NAS could not figure out how to add another 1000 people to the more popular races and have more accesses to online registration.
Well the swim start for one thing would be a nightmare. I cannot imagine an additional 1000 people in the water.
2936
Member
1358 days
Anton posted 5 weeks ago.
Don't like the process or feeling grumpy about NA Sports?...Indies!
"What would life be if we had no courage to attempt anything?" - Vincent Van Gogh
My Blog: http://agingsuperhero.blogspot.com
4914
Member
1716 days
beads1985 posted 5 weeks ago.
Have to say Vigo ran a great event at the Chessieman, so my experience with an indy was very positive. ;-)
Nothing to it, but to do it
1790
Member
1530 days
PrinceofClydes posted 5 weeks ago.
britt wrote:
..
..the way they plan to do it makes sense--FROM A BUSINESS STAND POINT. I am not saying you don't count as a human (I still love you-- don't tell hubby)but in the big scheme of things you don't ...
I.. I.. don't count? :(
*pout*
after they gave me a bike and.. and.. everything??
Ohh, the emotional roller coaster! I can't stand it!
Where's my blanket?
***
Good discussion folks.
Britt - An extra 1000 swimmers wouldn't be a problem - wave starts. They already start the pros 15 minutes ahead of the rest of us.
I'll not take up each point in turn. This decision has probably been discussed at length in NAS offices (or the bar, or on the airplane) and they will inevitably do what they need to. Escalating air costs could inhibit new entrants from coming to Penticton a year in advance just to sign-up esp. with 5-day min. hotel stays so some online reg. process seems inevitable. IMNA wants firm commitments from the finishers about next year's race asap, and they need to be able to sell out as efficiently as possible. I'm glad I'm not managing that challenge.
I blame Active.com for having a truly problematic sign-up process as well as charging an exhorbitant fee (in relation to the cost of an automated payment process, cf. Paypal) and the liability insurance extortion racket.
I'm a big boy. I can solve the payment riddle, since they were nice enough to give a ten month advance warning.
Let's be wary and active. We have to keep these guys in line. It's our sport too. Bottom line we pay the freight.
PoC
"Pain doesn't last, chicks dig scars, glory is forever!"
- Shane Falco.
1768
Member
1396 days
brittda posted 5 weeks ago.
Wave start would work, but the they may have to change the 12 pm finish cut off. How would that work for stagger starts? It's a non issue for the pros.
Just a thought.
41
Member
68 days
mtbke15 posted 5 weeks ago.
The wave start would work the same way it does for a marathon as well as the cut off times. For example in the Chicago marathon it can take up to a half hour to cross the start line. So you get 6 and half hours to finish from the time you start not the time the gun goes off. That is why there is the timing chip to have each persons exact time .
"What counts in training is what you do once the pain sets in." John Short, South African Coach
674
Member
310 days
jsk85 posted 5 weeks ago.
brittda wrote:
Wave start would work, but the they may have to change the 12 pm finish cut off. How would that work for stagger starts? It's a non issue for the pros.
Just a thought.
IMLou, although not a NAS race, does stagger starts. They extend the ultimate cutoff to 17hrs after the last person starts. Basically that makes it 1AM overall finish (18hrs for the first AGers). I'm not sure how it effects swim and bike cutoffs though. But it can be done obviously
1768
Member
1396 days
brittda posted 5 weeks ago.
jsk85 wrote:
brittda wrote:Wave start would work, but the they may have to change the 12 pm finish cut off. How would that work for stagger starts? It's a non issue for the pros.
Just a thought.IMLou, although not a NAS race, does stagger starts. They extend the ultimate cutoff to 17hrs after the last person starts. Basically that makes it 1AM overall finish (18hrs for the first AGers). I'm not sure how it effects swim and bike cutoffs though. But it can be done obviously
I get that it can be done :) but then that requires volunteers to be there longer etc....thats all I was thinking. Interesting about IMLou. I did not know they did that. Cool though. Certainly would make it better with a wave start!
4483
Member
1635 days
kylie posted 5 weeks ago.
brittda wrote:
jsk85 wrote:brittda wrote:Wave start would work, but the they may have to change the 12 pm finish cut off. How would that work for stagger starts? It's a non issue for the pros.
Just a thought.IMLou, although not a NAS race, does stagger starts. They extend the ultimate cutoff to 17hrs after the last person starts. Basically that makes it 1AM overall finish (18hrs for the first AGers). I'm not sure how it effects swim and bike cutoffs though. But it can be done obviously
I get that it can be done :) but then that requires volunteers to be there longer etc....thats all I was thinking. Interesting about IMLou. I did not know they did that. Cool though. Certainly would make it better with a wave start!
Yeah, IM Lou does it since the swim starts in a VERY narrow channel and there just isn't room for more people. They do a time-trial swim start - an athlete every second, basically. The official close time of the course is 17 hours after the last athlete starts. This means the first starter does get more time than the last, and an official time can be 17:20 and you are a finisher. I'm pretty sure they did the swim and bike cutoffs the same way: 2:20 after the last person hit the water was the swim cutoff for everyone, and then 10:30 (or whatever it usually is) from that last person to the water for the bike.
1790
Member
1530 days
PrinceofClydes posted 4 weeks ago.
like cattle through a chute.
Moooooo!
ka-ching.
PoC
"Pain doesn't last, chicks dig scars, glory is forever!"
- Shane Falco.
2936
Member
1358 days
Anton posted 4 weeks ago.
Was thinking about this on my long run yesterday...
So, they charge your card on site and then you have to go home and finish the process to get in. You don't, so you lose the spot, but they still have your fee.
Will they keep a portion of the fee? You know, for processing. How much? $6, $10, $100...more?
Ka-ching is right!
"What would life be if we had no courage to attempt anything?" - Vincent Van Gogh
My Blog: http://agingsuperhero.blogspot.com
1768
Member
1396 days
brittda posted 4 weeks ago.
Anton wrote:
Was thinking about this on my long run yesterday...
So, they charge your card on site and then you have to go home and finish the process to get in. You don't, so you lose the spot, but they still have your fee.
Will they keep a portion of the fee? You know, for processing. How much? $6, $10, $100...more?
Ka-ching is right!
I would assume they keep it all. They are just forcing you to make a final decision a couple weeks earlier. That part I have no problem with. It is no different than if you register online and make a payment really. Once you hit your $$$ is gone with the exception of the partial refund you get if you opt out before the deadline, what ever date that is.
Like Kylie I just dont know how well it will work registering onsite with active.
1790
Member
1530 days
PrinceofClydes posted 4 weeks ago.
Ya know, I'm already a member on Active.com, have been since the first time they made us confirm and pay online. Surely there can be no advantage to having an NAS volunteer typing in the info while I dictate and watch?
PoC
"Pain doesn't last, chicks dig scars, glory is forever!"
- Shane Falco.
For those of you unfamiliar with the name NA Sports, they put on the North American Ironman races (except IMLouisville).
From http://www.nasports.com/news/fullstory.php?storyid=806
Due to the tremendous growth of onsite registration, North America Sports will be implementing new onsite registration procedures. These new procedures will launch at Ford Ironman Florida and will be as follows:
This system will ensure fairness to all athletes wishing to sign up for NA Sports races. Under the previous system a number of certificates distributed at on-site registration were not redeemed and this created a situation requiring NA Sports to reopen on-line entries. People who attempted to enter on-line immediately after it opened and were closed out may not be aware of the additional spots available at a later date. This should no longer be the case going forward.
This new procedure allows the prospective athlete’s information to be put directly into the Active.com database so that it is accurate and has no chance of getting misplaced. It may take a little longer in the beginning so we ask that you be patient with our volunteers and staff.