Now that my Sprint Tri high is over.
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warrenp posted 10 weeks ago.
ok..................i'll be totally blunt. DON'T COMPARE.
i'M considered a pretty decent triathlete. I was a chubby kid who have been very fit for over 15 years now........i'm almost 40.
I had a friend who was one of the better runners in a city of one million would usually finish in top 5 in all half marathons. Two years ago when we did a 5 x 5 km relay race on same team i was excited of the possibility i could beat him. I was in the best shape of my life, I had an ironman two months away and had been training for at least 6 months like crazy.
He had taken a couple of years off running and competing and only been running again for two months.
SO....................to make a long story short.
I ran 5 kilometers in 21 minutes and thats as fast as i could go.
HE ran 5 kilometers in 18 minutes and ran a second leg after 45 minutes as someone never showed up in 17 minutes.
I know i can train like an animal for years and he could probably train for a month and kick my ass..its just a god given talent for some. OF COURSE we can improve out times but the moment we compare we start to run into trouble.
P.S. i can kick his ass in swimming really bad...........BIG SMILE.
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cutiger95 posted 10 weeks ago.
I know I don't plan on beating him, just getting more competitive than I was in the first Tri we both did.
I realize that i will never win local events, just want to be in the top 1/3rd or so, which I think is doable.
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textri posted 10 weeks ago.
+ 1 on the not comparing.
If you are faster on sprints, but slower on distance it seems that you need to increase your distance. Put in more long miles on the bike, run, and swim. And, if you want to beat your friend, train in secret.
The best method would be to get a coach and put together a training program based on where you are and where you want to go. Chances are he will ask you about your pace and ability, not your friends. :)
Good luck!
Finishing the race is the only thing that validates the cause.
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PHunt posted 10 weeks ago.
funny, I bet everyone has a friend like that. My buddy kills me when we run 5k's and 10k's in fact I had never beat him until last saturday. I ran my first tri sprint and beat him by 5 minutes, of course I trained like crazy for 6 weeks and he trained semi hard for maybe 2 weeks. One thing I realized I was doing is I was constantly going at his pace. We ran two five ks this summer and both times when he took off I took off right with him, A BIG MISTAKE as my heart rate easily sky rocketed... BY the time he faded so did I and I finished about 5 seconds behind him both times. I was so proud when I beat him in the sprint tri though.
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TriSooner posted 10 weeks ago.
cutiger95 wrote:
You can't. You can only the best with what you have. Even though they both won gold at Beijing, Usain Bolt is not going to win a marathon and Kamau Wanjiru is not going to win the 100. Completely different muscle types.
How to transfer my fast twitch to slow twitch, that is the question?
And don't compete against him. Compete against 1) yourself, 2) the clock, 3) your age group, and/or 4) the rest of the field. Granted, he may be in your age group, but he probably gets his jollies knowing that you are fixated on him being faster.
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jonovision_man posted 10 weeks ago.
I have a training/riding buddy that I compete with... neither of us wants to be last up the hill, last to the stop sign, etc.... and certainly not last to the finish line at a race! He tends to be a faster runner than me, I tend to be faster on the bike, we're just constantly pushing each other to go further and faster. Works well for both of us!
It helps that we're fairly close in ability... if one of us was vastly superior to the other it might not be so great.
jono
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zagfan posted 10 weeks ago.
Step on his googles, let some air out of his tires and cut his shoe laces. That should do the trick.
Seriously though, don't compete with him. The guy at work who got me into triathlon is in the mid 10's for Ironmans and is on his way to Clearwater not month. I would absolutely love to be at his level, but its just not going to happen. Instead of trying to compete with him I feed off of his abilities. Everytime I swim, bike or run with him I always seem to find an extra gear to keep up. Of course, I'm keeping up with him on a recovery day :) Even though he can smoke me in all three sports, I always train my best when I'm training with him. Use that natural competitive spirit to push yourself beyond your own capabilities, not his.
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jnrice posted 10 weeks ago.
Now that we are all done telling Cutiger95 that he'll never achieve his goal how about some CONSTRUCTIVE comments. This might be the first time I felt a negative vibe in a tri group. Who didn't get their cheerios this morning.
Everyone is singing that age old, very valid mantra of "don't compare yourself to your buddy" but that doesn't mean that you can't identify your weaknesses and improve them. Sprinters are dangerous people ... at the end of the race... The trick is getting them there fresh enough to do their thing, why they get to draft off their teams in road races.
What I think, and about the only thing that I have going for me is a relatively high lactic acid threshold. There are many ways to increase this which will give you a higher "cursing speed". I think that is what your looking for. I like Joe Friels take on training and he stresses intensity in work outs over grinding out miles at a lower pace. Check out the book The Triathlete's Training Bible. I have noticed a huge improvement in my racing (mostly with the bike) since I've done fewer miles at a higher intensity. I am the last person to say "lets go to the track" but it was my mission this summer and it was worth it when I moved from the bottom 20% of my age group to top 10% in a little local race.
Lastly, there is an idea in training called "crossfit" which is the latest fad in training that also might be something to look at. Do a web search for "crossfit" and "endurance" and you should find a page that gears crossfit ideas to multisport athletes. Good luck and even if you never beat your buddy in a race you might be able to get there before he's done cooling down which isn't that bad.
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azmojo804 posted 10 weeks ago.
Are you able to beat him or get close in any of the sports? He beats you by a minute in the run, but can you make that up in the swim or bike? 10 minutes over the sprint though.
I just started switching my focus recently, which has helped out a lot. I did what I've heard happens a lot, train the thing I'm comfortable with. I love swimming, so I had made sure to get all of my swim workouts in, and naturally, I finish top 5% or so in the swim in most of my races. But, I finish way down on the bike and run. So, I've knocked out a swim training each week and substituted with one of the other 2. It seems to be working better now...I keep setting PR's with each successive sprint.
I'd say to focus on the weak sport and you time will steadily drop.
And, as it has been mentioned, you may never catch him, but it doesn't hurt to have that goal and try. Just don't make it the whole point to your training...make it a nice side goal and it won't get you down. I like TriSooner's list, I personally focus on 1 and 2.
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warrenp posted 10 weeks ago.
OK. I'LL eat wheaties and do the ironman in 8 hours. thats more positive.
totally unrealistic but positive.
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zagfan posted 10 weeks ago.
Not trying to be negative, just giving my opinion. I still consider myself a newbie since I've only done one tri (Boise 70.3). I've learned a ton over the last year of getting into this tri thing and one of the main things is to train against my own abilities. Being the super type A that I am, I always want to race against whoever is around me. I have a hard time running on a treadmill b/c I'm always looking at the speed setting of the guy next to me and adjusting my accordingly. This created a big problem when I got into tris. I was fine sprinting out of the gate on my usual 2-4 mile runs b/c they didn't require a lot of endurance. But once I got up to the half mary distance I was out of gas by mile 5-6. I have to make an effort to start out slow and build into a run and have seen great results. I now feel stronger in the second half of a long run and can hold a steadier pace. So for me, training against other's abilities didn't help b/c it didn't allow me to properly develop my own.
So that is my opinion, take it for what its worth. I don't think anyone meant for their comments to be negative, just honest from their experiences.
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cutiger95 posted 10 weeks ago.
Don't worry to much about negativity I use it to fuel my fire. Had a teacher in the 10th grade inform me that I really wasn't cut out to go to college. Needless to say I finished college, reached the height of engineering at my company and am now a very successful albeit young manufacturing manager. Even to this day her comment drives me in my career.
Now it is on to something new. Everyone has just said that effectively I shouldn't target my buddy for a time. May or may not be true, but if you don't shoot for the moon I know one thing, you won't reach the moon even if you have the ability to do it.
Just looked through the crossfit stuff, it looks really cool. To get endurance benefits do I still need to do all of the lifting? I have a rough enough time finding one time per day to workout. I don't think that I can squeeze in a second workout on most days? Suggestions anyone. I am trying to train 2 x 2 x 2 each week currently. Yes it isn't optimum but with wife, kids, and a career commitment it is what it is. Also if anyone else is following the plan, are you still going LSD on occassion as I really like a 30-50 mile bike on Sat. mornings, it clears the head.
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jsk85 posted 10 weeks ago.
Hey go ahead and shoot for the moon...I tend to set my goals as high as possible as well...just remember to enjoy the development along the way to your goal, and if you come up short have the ability to step back and look at how far "into space" you did make it instead of how short you came. You will definately be a better person/athlete for it. GL
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gfd posted 10 weeks ago.
I would keep it simple. Increase training distances, drop some weight, add the right type of weight training, incorporate some longer distance speedwork, keep a positive attitude, race as much as you can, do the workouts that keep you motivated. Keep living the traithlete lifestyle.
Give it time cutiger, you just started and you have about 10 years to look forward to for improvement.
"If you set a goal for yourself and are able to achieve it you have won your race." -Dave Scott
~Garen~
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catwood posted 10 weeks ago.
I think that if you are already good at sprinting and have that top end speed, then weight training will not help you. I would recommend focusing on lots of long slow distance over the winter to build up a base, and then about a month before your first tri next year, start adding some long tempo intervals. It is easier to do long slow distance by yourself because then you aren't pressured to go faster, which will not work the right aerobic system that you need to make more fit.
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jsk85 posted 10 weeks ago.
+1 to long and low training on your own...it will be good mind game strategy as well. He won't know what you're up to when he's not training with you. Keep him in the dark...sandbag when you do workout with him...lull him into a comfort zone...then, at a race next season...crush him
Afterward, say you had the race of a lifetime, so he won't expect you to do it again...Note: this will only work the first 2 races, but is good strategy to even the playing field, b/c what's to say he's not beating you b/c he knows how fast you are and works hard enough to stay faster.
Just a thought
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cutiger95 posted 10 weeks ago.
Thanks guys and I am working on just that sandbag tactic. I took a poster aboves suggestion and started this morning with the CrossFit Endurance package. I think it might work out perfectly as my bud and I work out at lunch virtually every day. Going to lead both of us to the CrossFit style strength work and then not do any endurance training with him during the week.
About the only thing we will do is a MTB ride on Thurs. nights, but that is about to end and won't start back up until next spring after I do the Mt. Mitchell bike ride.
Would really like to throw a hurting on him on that ride, but will need to keep my composure during training so as not to tip my hand, maybe I will simply leave my standard crank on so that I struggle a bit on the mtn training rides, he won't know whether I've changed it or not and then switch out to a compact two or three weeks ahead so that I can climb like a demon. His best sport is biking and there wouldn't be a smile bigger than me finishing even with him at the top after 7 or 8 hrs in the saddle. If it didn't happen my bigger goal would be to have finished.
So I guess you can say being German programmed from work now, I always have a stretch goal (Beat my Bud), then the real I will kill myself if I don't make it goal (Finish and don't Die).
I am ready to start training for next year. One of my buds wiped the floor with me. I train with him at lunch everyday but he still knocked 10 mins off my time in the sprint.
Yes he is a natural "athlon" competitor. I am a natural couch potatoe, no really I am a sprinter or explosive athlete. My natural sports are Basketball, Volleyball, or football. When we are doing pure speed work, sprints on the bike, in the pool, or even on the track I simply crush my buddy. When we get much past a sprint distance of 100 - 200 meter equivalent he tracks me down and kills me.
So what suggestions does everyone have for converting over. I know the first thing for me to do is drop another 25 lbs or so as I am still at 194 lbs. But even when I was 170 8 yrs ago he would destroy me in 5k and 10k runs. I could knock down a 22 min. but he would throw down a 20 or 21.
How to transfer my fast twitch to slow twitch, that is the question?