i have seen multiple instances of the opposite: 1) when peter vanderkaay beat michael phelps in the 200 free semifinals phelps did not say a word as he swam through pete's lane. they are teammates on club wolverine! (this also makes me mad since i swam against pete since through high school) 2) when alain berrnard won the 100 free he celebrated in the face of the silver medalist and did not say "congrats" or "good swim" but i guess we cannot expect too much from the french...

Right on.

About Dara Torres.. maybe you read the thread I posted last December?

You read it here first.

PoC

Dirty as in "Oh Baby!" or dirty as in she's juicing?
If you think it's juicing, is it because of her age?

Careful now...If you start pointing the finger at her you have to start pointing it at every IM age grouper, man or woman, her age and older who goes sub 10 at an IM, or every Marathon runner, man or woman, her age or older who can run a 2:45 or better.
Slippery slope indeed...

Did you see the women's marathon? One of the runners got cut off going for a bottle of water and competing (british?) runner shared her bottle. From completely different countries and competing in the same race?.....That's awesome!

I call that "sport."

Dara Torres is not juicing now, but I think there is something to be said about her comeback into elite swimmer status. For someone her age and in her situation(having a child very recently) it is a remarkable path back to the olympics. Maybe she just used all the hormones from childbirth to get back to tiptop(does that make sense?No.). I do believe however that she has asked that her blood be saved for any future testing that is concieved to better at detecting doping just to prove that her come-back was all natural. Either way it's a pretty amazing story and I'm leaning toward it being natural just out of faith and belief in the human body can overcome just about anything...Plus American swimmers are the Sh*t.

As a 42 year old mother, I would so love nothing more than to believe that Torres is clean. But realistically, I have doubts. I would buy it in an endurance race (marathon, ironman, even distance swimming), but sprinting is another matter altogether, completely dependent on muscle mass. And since she was highly competitive when she was younger, there really are only two possibilities:

1) Although her younger body had more capability than her 41 year old body (which is a given, since muscle loss is a constant and measurable factor after age 35), it did not have correct training to achieve its full potential. This assumes two things: that her Olympic caliber coaching in her earlier years was inadequate, and that if she had reached her full potential at her earlier age she would've been blowing records out of the water at a simply astronomical rate.

2) She's juicing or has been juicing.

Just even looking at the videos, interviews, and photos of her face, I'd have to lean towards number two. Her jawline even looks totally different (and not from aging, but just different), and it was really noticeably on video. It reminds me of a friend I had on the UO Track team who was on 'roids. She just started to look and sound more and more masculine. I dunno, that's just my impression.

2000 (a year she also competed in the Olympics):

2006:

2008

Then secondly as a mother, I just have to think "is it worth it?" Personally, I wouldn't want to train round-the-clock for something this intense throughout the first year of my child's life. That year goes by, you never get it back. I don't really see that as being any kind of role model of motherhood. To me, it seems quite selfish really.

All that said, her body looks simply astounding. Muscle def. like crazy. I'm pretty sure most 20 year olds would envy it (men or women, LOL).

If I'm a dupe, then so be it. But I still believe in innocent until proven guilty. I can't imagine what else she could do to prove herself (except loose)... even though it's not her job to prove she is clean.

How come there's so much emphasis on her motherhood? But, there wasn't much emphasis on all the moms that ran the marathon.

Does life cease when you become a Mom? Ok, so there's Mom Jeans and mini-vans. Perhaps Moms should have their own special olympics because, clearly, they are disadvantaged :-)

As for the juicing and the muscles - I'm not so sure, I know some 40 year old body builders that look like that too with no juice. Innocent until proven guilty.

I guess for me it's not "automatically" thinking that, but because I know how my own body feels, and because I was a competitive swimmer in her events when I was younger.

I am actually faster at endurance races than I was when I was twenty, twenty-five, and thirty. I've PR'd at Oly, HIM, and IM distance in my 40's and have "pulled down some hardware" as you say in the last few years. At Sprint distance though, I still can't touch the time I did at 25 - the shorter the distance the harder it gets to approach what you can do when you're younger. And in the pool, I don't think any amount of training and weight training would make me a faster 50m or 100m swimmer than I was at 20.

So for me, my opinion is just based on personal experience, and that of the Master's swimmers I know who still train and race in their events. I have many friends who are ranked in the top 10 in their events in the National Masters for swimming. Although some of them are faster at endurance events, none of them sprint faster than they did when they were 25.

ky - missed it while off playing cowgirl and now i opened the TF home page and got the women's tri spoiler. dammit. everyone with a family knows that there are time sacrifices to be made, whether it's for work, play or training.

and besides, back to the OP, we figured that Dara talking to the race official did what any good mom would do.

there's certainly a difference between the mom-child bond and the dad child bond. but...what i'm finding more irritating is the treatment of motherhood for Dara vs other moms, and dads in the media.

I am saddened when I hear all the stuff about the mother-child bond and not the family, or the father-child bond.

I agree the mother-child bond is different than the father-child bond, but it is on a case by case basis. My daughters mom is very career oriented and I am all about my kids. When they were younger they were very clingy with their mom, but some of that was because she did not give them the amount of attention or quality of attention they needed from her.
Not to toot my own horn but I will in this case. I gave them lots of love and attention, much more than their mom. Now they are getting a little older and I am seeing how they are starting to want my attention.

My ex nursed for awhile and pumped so I did have to worry about feeding them every 2 hours and changing them. ;-)

I totally agree (especially being a new father). I think this might be part of the reason that so many dead beat fathers feel like they have no responsibility and just leave, or even if they don't leave they pretty much pretend like they're not there.

But, I think one difference is the physical toll it takes on your body to have a baby. I have lost lots of sleep and training :(, but the amount of change and trauma that a woman's body goes through is pretty crazy. I don't know from first had experience, but I can imagine that it would definitely affect a woman's athletic ability in the short term, especially an elite athlete.

I was just getting frustrated this weekend. Scott (husband) has a race , Vegas to Reno this weekend off road. I had my first team workout in San Diego Sat and he needed to go work on the jeep. My training week for IMCDA 22 hours last week and I got in 1/2. Mom helped by having Thomas over part day on Saturday. I came home and took everyone bowling and to lunch. I needed Sunday to get caught up at home stuff and Thomas ready for school this week on Wednesday. I was trying to figure out this week: Monday-Yoga, Tuesday-Spin/Swim and Wednesday-Run and then there is Thurs, Friday, Sat and Sun, since Thomas & I are on our own I have to change plans. Thank goodness for moms. My mom will get Thomas Thurs and Fri after school. I will take the trainer to baseball practice Thursday night, Thomas will go with me to the gym Friday, take a babysitter with me Sat to San Diego to ride with the team and Sunday training will be pushed till Scott gets home. Notice Scott didn't have to think about anything in the above, but his race.

Scott would love to have us with him, but I need to work and Thomas starts school. However, it is up to me to get through the week. His mind is on his race. It is definatly a give and take in being a parent and still balancing eveything. I can always count on him though to get me to race day and relaxed to do what I love. Thomas just hinks it is great when we are all three together any part of the day.

I think you do what you can, make sure your family knows how much they mean to you and still try to do what you want everyday. It may not come out as planned, but you have a plan.

I have been thinking about Torres and her age, I'm almost there. I would love to compete at that level at my age-39. I believe her, but then again she is over amazing. I was going back looking at old race times, and I caught myself if only I could do this or this.. I cannot do that I know, becuase today is different! I need to do the best I can today and not compare myself to what once was. I will play the mom card. My kid can say my mom does triathlons and drives a race jeep like my dad once a year!

This can be a difficult topic for parents and nonparents, becuase till you are a parent you just don't know. (sorry) As for the athletes, I hope that athletes would compete without drugs and win medals based on thier own abilities. It is the olympic dream!

I am with you.

Oh...Judges in triathlon!
"Yes, Ms. Frasier won the race by five minutes, but Ms. Ficker is much more attractive AND she gets style points for her bike dismount! So...we give the race to Ms. Ficker!"

If it was all anout style points I would podium all the time. ;-)