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NY Times article on tri deaths

kylie's picture
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started by kylie on July 29, 2008

It looks like others have noticed the # of deaths this year too, and how often it is during the swim.

NY Times: Recent Triathlon Deaths Have Experts Searching for Answers

beads1985's picture
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beads1985 posted 18 weeks ago.

deaths happening in threes?
Scary.

It sounds like the 3 participants all had some experience and traing too.

Nothing to it, but to do it

callco's picture
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callco posted 18 weeks ago.

I don't need an expert to explain this one. It's because I started doing tris this year.

For the health and safety of everyone around me, I should take up something safer, like skydiving, running with the bulls, or free climbing.

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ChunkyB posted 18 weeks ago.

First of all, I think it kind of makes sense that it always happens during the swim. First of all, it's much most stressful for most people than the other 2 sports. Plus, if you have a serious problem in water, then you drown. If you have problems in the other 2 disciplines, you might die, but chances are you'll just crash/fall over and not necessarily die. I guess if you have a heart attack, there's a good chance that you'll die no matter what. But I think the added stress of open water swimming plus the fact that it really is much easier to die in water, makes it much more likely to die on the first part.

Second of all, I wonder if the increase in the number of deaths has anything to do with the extreme popularity of triathlon. Events are more full, and there's also a higher percentage of inexperienced triathletes.

At any rate, it is really sad. Every one I hear about makes me wonder a little bit if I should switch to duathlon or something. But I think, for now, I'm sticking with triathlon.

"The melting point of wax means nothing to me": Thrice

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jhudalla posted 18 weeks ago.

Well if you think of it... how many hundreds of thousands of people race a triathlon every year? Only three out of that number has got to be a pretty small %. I bet its close to other sport fatailities across the board. How about that guy that up and died last year who was training for the olympics 5 miles into a marathon?!

Weary is the path that does not challenge.

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TriSooner posted 18 weeks ago.

ChunkyB wrote:
Second of all, I wonder if the increase in the number of deaths has anything to do with the extreme popularity of triathlon. Events are more full, and there's also a higher percentage of inexperienced triathletes.

The article gives a really good hypothesis that the swim is most dangerous for people with some rare pre-existing heart condition that is exacerbated by act of swimming swim. Bad time to find that one out.

But I think your comment has a lot to do with it: How many posts on Trifuel have we read this season that include some call for help in dealing with the anxiety in the swim? You get people who are enamoured with the idea of doing a tri but really aren't too stoked about doing the training or being adequately prepped for an open-water swim. I'm not trying to be crass or insensitive, but put inexperienced swimmers among 1,000 other people 500 meters from shore and this is what can happen.

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big 3 posted 18 weeks ago.

I wonder if triathlon will start requiring "Certification" for the Swim.
They have this for adventure races because of very difficult Kayak courses and Rock climbing. To enter those races you have to prove your ability.

I'm not suggesting that these people died from lack of ability. I'm just trying to think of what the insurance companies would ask of race directors to try to make the race safer.

Of course the qualification of the kayak and safety boat personnel could also become an issue.

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ChunkyB posted 18 weeks ago.

big 3 wrote:
I wonder if triathlon will start requiring "Certification" for the Swim.
They have this for adventure races because of very difficult Kayak courses and Rock climbing. To enter those races you have to prove your ability.

I'm not suggesting that these people died from lack of ability. I'm just trying to think of what the insurance companies would ask of race directors to try to make the race safer.

Of course the qualification of the kayak and safety boat personnel could also become an issue.

+1. And, as the article said, most of the deaths are people who are well trained and experienced. But, you could put the best swimmer in the water with 100 rookies, and it could mess some stuff up. Just a thought.

"The melting point of wax means nothing to me": Thrice

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edywouldgo posted 18 weeks ago.

Agree with ChunkyB. An experienced swimmer with lots of rookies, getting kicked, or swum over just adds to the wildcard of things that can go wrong. Few of us practice for that or even experienced that. They should start with waves based on expected pace like they do at big marathons. Just put those timing chip mats before the swim. I've always swum extra yards at along the line's edge or wait an extra minute so I can swim at my own comfortable pace.

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Toothless posted 18 weeks ago.

big 3 wrote:
I wonder if triathlon will start requiring "Certification" for the Swim.
They have this for adventure races because of very difficult Kayak courses and Rock climbing. To enter those races you have to prove your ability.

I'm not suggesting that these people died from lack of ability. I'm just trying to think of what the insurance companies would ask of race directors to try to make the race safer.

Of course the qualification of the kayak and safety boat personnel could also become an issue.

The liability waiver that you sign when you register for a triathlon is what the insurance company wants to see, as well as the annual or one-day membership to USAT. Accidents and health issues happen on the swim, bike and run. As participants we assume that risk, unless the accident or death is caused by the gross negligence of someone else.

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248-n8 posted 18 weeks ago.

This is pretty interesting and has raised the concerns of some of my family and friends that know I'm still doing races, but its one of those things I'm going to continue to do.

The one thing I was thinking while reading this is what if due to the relatively new popularity of triathlons maybe they haven't caught up with the correct number of people in the water watching the racers.

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big 3 posted 18 weeks ago.

248-n8 wrote:
maybe they haven't caught up with the correct number of people in the water watching the racers.

I just went through my photos of NJ State Tri. In one of the frames I counted 13 kayaks and I know there was at least 2 motorized boats that are not in the frame.

Picture attached if you are interested.
Hmmm. picture isn't attaching...
Check it out here
http://tinyurl.com/67x8do
If you look closely there are at least 5 people holding onto Kayaks in this shot. Which is surprising to me, that seems like a bunch.

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jonovision_man posted 18 weeks ago.

Question: are the deaths usually people with or without wetsuits?

I'm asking because I'd assume sinking in a wetsuit is nearly impossible... or am I just being lulled into a false sense of security?

jono

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ChunkyB posted 18 weeks ago.

jonovision_man wrote:

Question: are the deaths usually people with or without wetsuits?

I'm asking because I'd assume sinking in a wetsuit is nearly impossible... or am I just being lulled into a false sense of security?

jono

They man who died at Cache Valley was definitely wearing a wetsuit. They were doing CPR right next to my transition spot, and they had to cut it off him and stuff.

I think that wetsuits give you some buoyancy, but they're not going to keep your head above water. And, when it comes down to it, someone doesn't have to sink to die in the water. Like that guy in Cache Valley, he never actually sunk or anything. He just had a heart attack.

Also, when you have tons of people thrashing around you, it can kind of make you sink more than you would otherwise.

"The melting point of wax means nothing to me": Thrice

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deepbluex posted 18 weeks ago.

I don't think the sinking is the issue but that if you become unconscious, you would be face down in the water and you'd drown if you don't get rescued quickly. I can see that happening in the chaos of a heated race. It would be hard to spot the one swimmer who isn't moving right and a lot of racers might just swim by because their focus is on their own race.

I gather that an otherwise minor heart issue could become a fatal event because you're in the water instead of on the ground where you could just sit down and take a breather to let it pass?

I do think a wetsuit gives you an extra margin of safety though.

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Sully800 posted 17 weeks ago.

I don't have any statistics on it, but I'm sure many many more people are killed each year while training for the bike leg than die during the swim portion. It's still a scary thought, but I think cycling on the open road is a much more dangerous activity.

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jonovision_man posted 17 weeks ago.

deepbluex wrote:
I do think a wetsuit gives you an extra margin of safety though.

That's my assumption... if you can alert people to the fact that you're having trouble, staying at the water level rather than going under must have a huge difference in outcomes.

Frankly, there's deaths at any major event where people gather... people die of heart attacks, it happens, whether it's a triathlon or county fair. If it's an underlying heart condition that's killing someone, their time was pretty much up whether they were out swimming or not.

jono

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iamtb13 posted 17 weeks ago.

I wonder if it has anything to do with health conditions. What if they just got kicked hard in the head in the wrong spot and got knocked out? Nothing to do with health or even newbies. While the swim does bring more anxiety to most it's also the only full contact portion of a race.

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cutiger95 posted 17 weeks ago.

Guys, how many people take a last breath during marathons or even 5ks. Some guy at the Peachtree road race last year had a heart attack on the aptly named " Heart Attack Hill" portion of the course.

More people in events means more likelyhood for freak things to happen.

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john_grieco posted 17 weeks ago.

Sully - I totally agree with you on the most dangerous aspect of triathlons being the cycling training. I know too many people who had accidents/near accidents (usually with cars, sometimes kamikaze squirrels) on the road. Some escaped with scrapes, others hospital visits, others, unfortunately, worse.

I don't think a swimming certification would help because I don't believe swimming ability, or lack thereof, is what caused the deaths.

"Only those who will risk going too far can possibly find out how far one can go."
-T. S. Eliot

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big 3 posted 17 weeks ago.

Follow up to the NJ State Story
http://tinyurl.com/5zr2w6

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KevDaddy posted 17 weeks ago.

My guess (solely a guess) is that the chaos of the swim causes a level of panic that is difficult for some people to handle in addition to the load of physical activity and adrenaline at the beginning of the race.

I say this because I am by far a more competent swimmer than I am cyclist or runner. I have been swimming for years and am relatively comfortable in the open water. In every tri I have done (all four!), It has been a real challenge for me to keep my HR under control during the first 10 minutes or so of the swim. Eventually it calms down, but each time I have feelings that I am not going to be able to finish.

I do wonder if the wetsuit adds to the panic people feel. Even though it certainly increases buoyancy, is it possible that it adds to the cramped/constricted feeling many people (certainly myself) feel during a crowded OW swim leg?

It certainly isn't a sport to take lightly- in any of the legs.

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diva_mom posted 17 weeks ago.

for me having lived in colorado for a while, it's a lot like skiing. about 14 skiers die every year in CO. I always try to visualize the runs they were on and figure out what happened, so I can avoid it. 14 skiers always seemed like a lot, until you add the denominator. 14 over 1 million doesn't seem so bad. ditto for shark attacks. put the number of people attacked over the millions of people in the water. and for tris, add the denominator of the hundreds of thousands that participated this year, and it's not as daunting a statistic.

I will say a prayer for these folks and their families when i take to the open water this weekend, and be more aware of others swimming around me.

Don't be so easy on yourself 'cause this one might be all that you have left

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daveg posted 17 weeks ago.

I tend to let the crowds go out infront of me. Swim behind them so I'm not in the washingmachine. HR and breathing is always up the first 5-8 minutes of the swim, then once I'm in a groove it becomes more rythmic and controlled. The wetsuits are tight around the neck so it can give people a clustrophobic feeling which leads to elevated breathing and HR, sometimes panic. Combine this with water you can't see in, a bottom you can't touch, then the mental aspect takes over "sh#t what am I doing here?", Doubting yourself and your abilities. It could be a disaster for some. Or not. It is the combination of experience and health. I have spoke to many first timers who always say "this will be the first time I swam in years" as we're waiting for our wave to kick off, or "these wetsuits will help me float right, cause I'm not a good swimmer". My first tri swim was in Rockaway beach, not ideal. I felt this way for a brief time, then got past it and did ok. We were all rookies at one point....Go to a dr and get checked out. Training is called training for a reason. Train your body to work under unusual, uncomfortable conditions. Other thing are out of our hands ya know...

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Carlos Mx posted 17 weeks ago.

I agree with the fact that it is very few vs the hundreds of thousands who participate in competitions during the year.
Just, please don't let my wife know anything about that article!!