Swim - help getting from 750m to 3800m - I'm slightly lost...
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chekmarks posted 6 weeks ago.
a few things.
1) just keep swimming. if you can swim 750m, you can swim 1000m. (if you believe it).
2) increase the length of your average swim. i don't mean going from 2,500 to 3,000 yards a practice, but rather from 10x 200 to 10x 350. also, don't forget to do some absolute, all out, hellish sprints. if you can make it though a set like 15x 50m or 100m ALL OUT it will be a lot easier to swim long at 75%-80%
3) i honestly think swimming is 75% mental. you can swim a long way already, just fight through the boring part and the painful parts, when it gets tough, focus on your form.
hope this helps, good luck.
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370 days
vjohnson posted 6 weeks ago.
Having spent most of my life going back and forth in a pool, don't do the weekly long swim. You will burn out quicker than a superstar. Just keep swimming consistently. Too many people don't kick enough, so spend some time with the kickboard, this will help your technique. Get some fins, pull buoy, hand paddles and a snorkel mix it up and keep it fun.
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jonovision_man posted 6 weeks ago.
Appreciate the advice.
I've had good luck with the fins, really helped me get my kick going.
I'll take the advice and keep the long swims to a minimum, just to checkpoint where I'm at rather than a regular thing.
jono
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251 days
whassupe posted 6 weeks ago.
I'll add 2 cents.
I had a very hard time first learning to swim, and you're clearly well beyond that...
I found that a Masters Coach made the difference for me (thanks, Ryan). Someone watching me screw up my stroke or flat out get it wrong was a huge help. I went from a non-swimmer struggling through a sprint to feeling good coming out of the water of Ironman CDA just over a year later.
Note, as we got closer (say 3 months or so) to IMCDA, my partners tracked to swim workouts from on online site with a program from Mike Ricci at D3. Our Masters coach still provided input and guidance on the mechanics.
The combination was good for me.
Good luck!
Erik
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1152 days
JMA posted 6 weeks ago.
The only time I swim a race distance, up to HIM, is during a race. Most of my workouts are combinations of 250s, 400s, 500s, etc., with rest time between sets. My total swim workout may add up to a race distance or greater, but I never swim it continuously.
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328 days
vistring posted 6 weeks ago.
When I trained for the bay swim, 4.4 miles. I only did 6400 once. In hindsight all the drilling I did really made the difference. The 6400 took up a lot of time and was pretty boring. I also got sick before the race and didn't do any swimming. I total agree with JMA and vjohnson. drills and intervals of 200 up to 600. Every once in a while I work on pacing out a smooth 800.
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rsstowe posted 6 weeks ago.
I'm in roughly the same boat as Jono and I don't quite understand the drills instead of distance workouts. I'm not a swimmer by any means and I see "real" distance swimmers relying mostly on shorter drills and intervals for training, so I know it works I just want to know why I suppose. In cycling and running, you primarily do distance workouts to get ready for distance races. I didn't run miles repeats as my primary workout to train for a marathon, so why is swimming so different? I've wondered this for awhile and hope someone here can explain it.
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ht001 posted 6 weeks ago.
I've actually done both the (A) lots of sets of shorter intervals to make up the full distance and the (B) long swim with longer intervals approaches. Both had drill workouts mixed in. As others have said drills are very helpful - provided you're doing them right. Anyway both methodologies worked for me for the type of racing I've been doing.
The major difference that I found between the two is that the philosophy in (B) is very similar to the philosophy that many of us are familiar with for building a distance base in running or biking and then incorporating speed work once that distance base is built (4000m; speed was done with Zone 4 workouts of 1K each within some of the distance work). On the other hand (A) is a combined approach of building distance with the short intervals as components therein (similar to what others have suggested above). They both worked for the longer distance races (HIM and IM). I am not sure though, whether (B) would work for shorter distance races (Olympic and Sprint). I am not racing at all at those distances this year, and so don't have any data to point to success. My thought is that it would not work for those race distances. So for those distances the shorter sets that allow you some focused intense intervals with some drill work for technique and form and building good body position in the water would be the best way to go.
I have really liked approach (B) this year. This is the first year I've done it this way. It is awesome to hit the pool on a Tuesday AM for a workout and crank out 4000 in 1:13 and then go to work....what a confidence builder!
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jhudalla posted 6 weeks ago.
I'd say the reason for drilling it to keep the form and technique in check. Since swimming is 95% form and 5% power it make sense to focus so much on it. As where on the bike it's more about pure power and strength endurance than anything. Same for the run. In the water when you start to get a lil tired, the first thing to go is form... so drill drill drill.
That's at least what I get for a reason from my coach.
Weary is the path that does not challenge.
927
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261 days
TriSooner posted 6 weeks ago.
You've gotten some really good advice in previous posts. Technical answers, not just IMHO.
jonovision_man wrote:
As has been said, you really don't need to prove to yourself by going 3800 in a pool that you can do it on race day. I hate to compare swimming and running, but when you train for a marathon, very few if any programs have you running 26.2 during training. Think instead about time: An hour-long swim at most (and only a few of them) are enough to get you where you want to be.
I would keep upping the distance until I eventually got to 3800m
jonovision_man wrote:
almost 2 years away from a full Iron!
In two years you'll be in a pool using 750 as a warm up, and in your IM the first 750 will blow by so fast.
jonovision_man wrote:
Focus on technique first, which will translate to speed, which will result in easy distance. Think about your run training: You wouldn't train for a marathon by going long early and then focus on speed.
But at the same time I want to get to the distance sooner so I can focus on speed
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chekmarks posted 6 weeks ago.
"Focus on technique first, which will translate to speed, which will result in easy distance."
slow is smooth, smooth is fast.
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1179 days
triNick posted 6 weeks ago.
I wouldn't worry about swimming the whole distance non-stop. I would focus on sets / drills that will get you to that distance. The sets are interval training and that's a good thing. It makes swimming the distance more interesting and not so boring. Doing drills for part of your workout will make sure you are using good form.
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tri-ac posted 6 weeks ago.
if you're swimming 3x/week, use the 3rd session for a single long distance (or work up to it using two long distances first). if only 2x/wk, use every 4th workout as a distance workout.
this really will help you only with the mental hurdle of doing the distance all at once. your other training will give you the physical ability, no problem.
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1558 days
kylie posted 6 weeks ago.
I have been seeing AWESOME results with a couple changes to my swims in the last couple months.
One is having goal times to hit for my intervals, and the other is in the structure of the workouts as being discussed here. I have 4 swims a week, and do short stuff one day (100s), a mix another day (50s - 500s), a day that varies all the time, and a straight swim day (started at 2000 straight and building up). I believe the keys to building my stroke and speed are the shorter days, but the key to building comfort in the water and confidence in how easy swimming really is is that straight day. Plus, I think it is important to train how you are going to race -- so that one straight day is my "like a race" just keep going swim: steady, strong, and relaxed.
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jonovision_man posted 6 weeks ago.
Thank-you everyone for all the advice... I know everyone's got their own opinion and approach, but you all give good reasons for why you do it the way you do! I appreciate it.
It sounds like some people have had success with both approaches: only drills and breaking the distance up, or with a weekly long swim. But at the stage I'm at (beginner-ish) the focus should be almost entirely on technique and speed rather than distance, so if I do decide to do the long weekly swim I can think about that a bit later.
(I should have said something about pace: right now I'm taking almost 20:00 to do the 750m, which is about 2:40/100m... from the kinds of times I've seen posted at events and on this forum, I'm SLOW! So clearly I have a ways to go in the technique department!)
jono
927
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261 days
TriSooner posted 6 weeks ago.
jonovision_man wrote:
I should have said something about pace: right now I'm taking almost 20:00 to do the 750m, which is about 2:40/100m... from the kinds of times I've seen posted at events and on this forum, I'm SLOW! So clearly I have a ways to go in the technique department!
Wow, yes, technique first. Get your pace down to the 2:00/100m neighborhood (average pace over an entire workout) then start tacking on distances. And this is where form comes in: you can't take a 2:40/100m pace and muscle it down to 2:00/100m.
I'm able to do 750m non-stop now in the pool... doesn't sounds like much, but for me it was a big accomplishment! I have a Sprint Tri in a few weeks, then I'm going to start looking to next season and a half iron and eventually a full iron.
But most of the workouts I see on-line don't really focus on non-stop swimming... they have a lot of 4x200m, etc, at various paces. I don't know if this should really be my focus?
I'm in the pool 3 times a week, so I was thinking 2 could be my technique/speed work, and one would be my long effort. That long effort, I would keep upping the distance until I eventually got to 3800m.
Does this sound OK? I'm 10 months out from a half iron, and almost 2 years away from a full Iron! :) But at the same time I want to get to the distance sooner so I can focus on speed rather than worrying about just getting to the finish...
Thanks in advance.
jono
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