If you do a non-IM brand 140.6, are you still considered an Ironman?
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tsilcyc posted 25 weeks ago.
Yes.
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jhudalla posted 25 weeks ago.
Absolutely. Probly more so because you resisted the marketing gimmick which entices people to pay 500+ dollars for a race which has them doing laps! That said, I'm going to be heading to Wisconsin this year to sign up for my first ironman. Hey, marketing works!
Weary is the path that does not challenge.
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kylie posted 25 weeks ago.
To me it depends who is asking... to the average person, yes. But they don't often ask. To try folks, I would say yes, I did the Vineman full (since often their next question is what one did you do, and then you don't have to explain when they said that is a half, or there isn't one in California). If it is me asking, then yes -- I would consider myself one.
It's interesting to me: I see this discussed and debated online a lot, but rarely has it come up for me.
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gfd posted 25 weeks ago.
Yes. The name can be copyrighted but the achievement still is what it is.
"If you set a goal for yourself and are able to achieve it you have won your race." -Dave Scott
~Garen~ Blog: http://baldhungariantriproject.blogspot.com/
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TriOnLife posted 25 weeks ago.
Yes. You do an Iron distance race you are an Ironman. Marketing has nothing to do with it.
- A 21st Century Mom who is tri-ing to get better instead of just getting older
www.breakingthetape.com/21stcenturymom
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TriOnLife posted 25 weeks ago.
kylie wrote:
It's interesting to me: I see this discussed and debated online a lot, but rarely has it come up for me.
And yet - you are the one person who didn't just say 'yes'.
Don't EVER let anyone take anything away from you because you did a 140.6 that isn't M-dot branded. How much help is all that branding when it comes to training to go the distance? None.
You're an Ironman same as anyone else who covered the distance.
- A 21st Century Mom who is tri-ing to get better instead of just getting older
www.breakingthetape.com/21stcenturymom
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Toothless posted 25 weeks ago.
No! If it's not the brand Ironman then you are not an Ironman! Ironman is a trademarked name and you can't be an ironman with even with a lower case without the express written consent of some rich guy who wants $525 of your hard-earned cash - and active.com who want's $26 for doing absolutely nothing.
Of course, I'm kidding and that argument is obviously totally stupid but lawyers are very good at these things. Somebody OWNS the brands Ironman, 140.6, and 70.3. Nonetheless, take pride in your achievements and don't worry about the brand. If you show up at the water cooler at work and you've done a 2.4 - 112- 26.2 event only the biggest snob will give you attitude about the brand of the event. And that would only happen in Boulder.
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skunkworxz posted 25 weeks ago.
Yes - absolutely without any doubt. I bet if someone argued the point, they would be on the Ironman corporate payroll :-)
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Anton posted 25 weeks ago.
Abso @*&^#"* lutely! And don't let anyone tell you otherwise. +1 to skunkworxz.
"If he wishes to swim in dangerous waters...who are we to deny him?" Chef Skinner
My Blog: http://antonspath.blogspot.com
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phillytri posted 25 weeks ago.
I'm doing Vineman Full this year, my first 140.6. If I finish, I will tell people I'm an Ironman.
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RV posted 25 weeks ago.
Okay - I'll be the lone dissenter here.
And it is only a technicality.
The accomplishment of 140.6 is the same and equally impressive, but claiming the label doesn't seem right to me.
I've done marathons but can't claim that I did Boston.
So doing an iron distance isn't the same as doing an Ironman.
Ironman is a set of specific races - so the claim that you are an Ironman indicates that you completed a race in this set - when you haven't.
RV
It takes a long time to get good. - Scott Molina
Slow is smooth; smooth is fast. - Rich Strauss
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kylie posted 25 weeks ago.
TriOnLife wrote:
kylie wrote:
It's interesting to me: I see this discussed and debated online a lot, but rarely has it come up for me.And yet - you are the one person who didn't just say 'yes'.
Don't EVER let anyone take anything away from you because you did a 140.6 that isn't M-dot branded. How much help is all that branding when it comes to training to go the distance? None.
You're an Ironman same as anyone else who covered the distance.
Well that's because it has been discussed enough that I see different situations result in different behavior for me ;)
It takes nothing from me... I've done branded and non-branded. Seriously though, it takes nothing from me because it just doesn't matter what the title is. It was about the journey and the experience, and I don't need it validated by anyone else. If people are going to be nit-picky, I will approach it in a way that avoids a confrontation because it is not one of the battles that is important to me: they can call me what they want and can't take away what I've done.
There are differences in branded and non-branded though, and the biggest on race day to me being the size of the field. Most branded (although not all) treat you to that washing machine of 2000 bodies swimming at once. It also leads to lots of company on the bike and run courses, as well as a different level of competition, and most independent IMs just don't have the field size for that. So I do think they can be very different experiences in that regard.
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brittda posted 25 weeks ago.
kylie wrote:
TriOnLife wrote:kylie wrote:
It's interesting to me: I see this discussed and debated online a lot, but rarely has it come up for me.And yet - you are the one person who didn't just say 'yes'.
Don't EVER let anyone take anything away from you because you did a 140.6 that isn't M-dot branded. How much help is all that branding when it comes to training to go the distance? None.
You're an Ironman same as anyone else who covered the distance.
Well that's because it has been discussed enough that I see different situations result in different behavior for me ;)
It takes nothing from me... I've done branded and non-branded. Seriously though, it takes nothing from me because it just doesn't matter what the title is. It was about the journey and the experience, and I don't need it validated by anyone else. If people are going to be nit-picky, I will approach it in a way that avoids a confrontation because it is not one of the battles that is important to me: they can call me what they want and can't take away what I've done.
There are differences in branded and non-branded though, and the biggest on race day to me being the size of the field. Most branded (although not all) treat you to that washing machine of 2000 bodies swimming at once. It also leads to lots of company on the bike and run courses, as well as a different level of competition, and most independent IMs just don't have the field size for that. So I do think they can be very different experiences in that regard.
EXACTLY! And lets be honest--are any of you going to go around and TELL people you are an Ironman? No. Someone may ask what race you have done, and you can tell them you did "X" race.
I personally would not get the mdot tattoo (have it from doing my 2 IMC races and that is another topic already so I won't digress) and that is really the only time it comes up--conversation piece sometimes people ask about it. Anyone who has done either race is not going to judge you, and everyone else does not know the difference to care.
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kylie posted 25 weeks ago.
And those who do care are in the sport for different reasons than I am and I can let it go.
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tri-ac posted 25 weeks ago.
RV wrote:
I've done marathons but can't claim that I did Boston.
i think you're missing the point...by saying you're an ironman, you're not claiming the world championship, just the distance.
you can call still say you did a marathon, right?
unless I copyright the word "marathon"
then, you have to pay me ;)
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Ironmom posted 25 weeks ago.
If an Ironman falls in the forest...
Blue Skies, -Robin-
http://ironmom.blogspot.com/
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RV posted 25 weeks ago.
tri-ac wrote:
i think you're missing the point...by saying you're an ironman, you're not claiming the world championship, just the distance.
you can call still say you did a marathon, right?
unless I copyright the word "marathon"
then, you have to pay me ;)
I guess that was my point. It is making a claim against a copyrighted word - Ironman. By saying Ironman you are indicating that you did a race that is branded Ironman.
People say they are not into the "labels" but they want the Ironman label. Seems contradictory to me.
I am impressed by anyone doing the distance - regardless of whoever puts on the race.
RV
It takes a long time to get good. - Scott Molina
Slow is smooth; smooth is fast. - Rich Strauss
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charlie6460 posted 25 weeks ago.
Didn’t the IM distance come before the brand?
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tri-ac posted 25 weeks ago.
charlie6460 wrote:
Didn’t the IM distance come before the brand?
pay the man!
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beads1985 posted 25 weeks ago.
Ironmom wrote:
If an Ironman falls in the forest...
I have tripped on a trail marathon...;-)
Nothing to it, but to do it
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beads1985 posted 25 weeks ago.
charlie6460 wrote:
Didn’t the IM distance come before the brand?
When John Collins and friends set up the first race he didn't declare the winner of the Swim, Bike, and Run of 140.6
"You are an Ironman(trademarked)"
It was just "You are an Ironman"
I have done branded and non-branded and 140.6 is different for each day and each race, but it still a lot of work and in my opinion, if you do the distance you get the title.
Nothing to it, but to do it
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tri-ac posted 25 weeks ago.
actually, mike reilly was at the first one with a personal PA system (CB + bullhorn) and commented as they finished..."John Collins, YOU are an iron man!"
few people know that's how mike got his start...
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Tamara posted 25 weeks ago.
To a certain extent, I think the problem is that we're lacking alternative labels. I just did RI 70.3 this weekend...I can call it a half ironman. Think Kleenex/facial tissue, Xerox/copy machine, Coke/sodapop -- these brands have also become generic terminology for a product, but in these cases there are alternative labels to use as well. But, other than "ironman", there really isn't another non-copyrighted label for the 140.6/Ironman/ironman distance.
So, rather than going through the "Well, I did what's called an iron distance event that consists of a 2.4mile swim, a 112 mile bike and a 26.2 mile run", it is a heck of a lot easier to say "I did an ironman".
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TriOnLife posted 25 weeks ago.
Word of the day - antonomasia. One of it's meanings is a proper name that has come to mean the generic thing it represents - Kleenex, Clorox and Xerox are good examples as is Ironman.
As for the Boston analogy it is logically incorrect. If you do Vineman full and say you did Kona you are making a false claim but if you do Vineman full and say you are an Ironman you are just being succint.
Boston and Kona require qualification or some luck in the lottery. All of those other races just require you to pay the fee and go the distance. 140.6 = Ironman. Branding be damned.
- A 21st Century Mom who is tri-ing to get better instead of just getting older
www.breakingthetape.com/21stcenturymom
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TriOnLife posted 25 weeks ago.
ACK! I mean 'one of its meanings' no apostrophe. (I hate it when I do that)
- A 21st Century Mom who is tri-ing to get better instead of just getting older
www.breakingthetape.com/21stcenturymom
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RV posted 25 weeks ago.
At a local health club they did their own 'Ironman' - with all the iron distances but did it over a months time. They called everyone that completed the activities an Ironman.
I know it is an extreme and silly example but it is just another step - the first Ironman did not have a 17 hour cut-off as do current ones, so not altogether that far-fetched.
If you do 140.6 outside of an official timed event is that an Ironman?
RV
It takes a long time to get good. - Scott Molina
Slow is smooth; smooth is fast. - Rich Strauss
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TriOnLife posted 25 weeks ago.
"If you do 140.6 outside of an official timed event is that an Ironman?"
No - it's an Iron Effort but people who take 3 days to run 26.2 miles don't say they ran a marathon. You have to do the whole thing at once to make it an Ironman.
- A 21st Century Mom who is tri-ing to get better instead of just getting older
www.breakingthetape.com/21stcenturymom
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TriOnLife posted 25 weeks ago.
How timely is this:
http://insidetri.com/article/71677/van-vlerken-sets-fastest-iron-
"The Netherland’s Yvonne Van Vlerken posted the fastest female Iron-distance time of all time at Quelle Challenge Roth on Sunday, finishing in 8:45:48—five minutes faster than Paula Newby-Fraser’s previous best mark and over a minute faster than the mark set by Sandra Wallenhorst at Ironman Austria today. "
Think she figures she an Ironman or just a super good Iron Distance finisher?
- A 21st Century Mom who is tri-ing to get better instead of just getting older
www.breakingthetape.com/21stcenturymom
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kylie posted 25 weeks ago.
TriOnLife wrote:
ACK! I mean 'one of its meanings' no apostrophe. (I hate it when I do that)
A quick tip: If you notice that, you can look at your original post and at the bottom there is a link that says "edit". If you are fast on catching your typos, you can just edit them out and no one will know :)
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kylie posted 25 weeks ago.
TriOnLife wrote:
How timely is this:http://insidetri.com/article/71677/van-vlerken-sets-fastest-iron-
"The Netherland’s Yvonne Van Vlerken posted the fastest female Iron-distance time of all time at Quelle Challenge Roth on Sunday, finishing in 8:45:48—five minutes faster than Paula Newby-Fraser’s previous best mark and over a minute faster than the mark set by Sandra Wallenhorst at Ironman Austria today. "
Think she figures she an Ironman or just a super good Iron Distance finisher?
And yet Ironman.com had a big story about the new 8:47:xx time that was the new official Ironman record, now held by Wallenhorst... and they did call it the official one ;)
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Anton posted 25 weeks ago.
RV wrote:
At a local health club they did their own 'Ironman' - with all the iron distances but did it over a months time. They called everyone that completed the activities an Ironman.
I know it is an extreme and silly example but it is just another step - the first Ironman did not have a 17 hour cut-off as do current ones, so not altogether that far-fetched.
If you do 140.6 outside of an official timed event is that an Ironman?
Gotta do the whole thing in one (17 hour) bite.
"If he wishes to swim in dangerous waters...who are we to deny him?" Chef Skinner
My Blog: http://antonspath.blogspot.com
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TriOnLife posted 25 weeks ago.
kylie wrote:
And yet Ironman.com had a big story about the new 8:47:xx time that was the new official Ironman record, now held by Wallenhorst... and they did call it the official one ;)
Thereby proving beyond all doubt that the Ironman brand is in no way superior :-)
- A 21st Century Mom who is tri-ing to get better instead of just getting older
www.breakingthetape.com/21stcenturymom
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kylie posted 25 weeks ago.
So the first Ironman finishers weren't all Ironmen? And we are going to go with the time standard that WTC has set, and not all independant races use? ;)
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iamtb13 posted 25 weeks ago.
You can say your an ironman but not an Ironman.
Say you do the full Vineman 140.6 miles.
Someone asks you "ever done an Ironman?" or "are you an Ironman?"
Do you say "yes" or "yes... but..." or "no"?