Getting to Ironman...
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burnman posted 21 weeks ago.
you can be strong on the bike and strong on the run, but if you're not up to the task of an open water swim, it will blow your game plan out of the water. if you're looking at ironman in the next calendar year, i say get a good number of short races under your belt to get acclimated. you'll be surprised at how much each leg of the race takes out of you in the next leg. once you have the sensation of putting all three together, the rest will be a matter of long-term training and conditioning (which it sounds like you have a good start on). always remember that your biggest gains will be made in the longer disciplines (i.e. bike/run). if you don't plan to break any records, your only goal for the swim should be to get out of the water in good enough condition to finish the day. focus on efficiency, and build the speed on top of it.
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jonovision_man posted 21 weeks ago.
Oops, sorry about that! I should have mentioned my timeline...
I'm looking at 2011 as reasonable, might get to the 1/2 iron next year if the swimming is progressing. I haven't done a full marathon yet, so I want to get comfortable with that as well. Willing to be a bit patient to do it right (but not wait forever!)
Thanks for the advice, appreciated.
jono
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335 days
TriSooner posted 21 weeks ago.
jonovision_man wrote:
There probably isn't a significant difference either way. With both plans you would get comparable time and distance in. The only difference I see is mostly mental: Successfully completing marathons and several 100 mile bikes is mostly psychological prep for the IM. But the thought process you have demonstrated is correct: Going from My First Tri to 140.3 takes time and understanding of what your strengths and limits are and how to best divide your time. And I think your 2011 goal could be cut to 2010: Sprint and oly's in '08; Halfs in 2009; full in 2010.
Keep doing century (and longer) rides, running marathons, and work on the swim like a crazy man until it gets caught up to the rest? Or stick to triathlons, upping the distance as the swim comes along?
The good news is that (IMHO), the swim comes along much faster than you'd think. You will be painfully slow and inefficient at first, but you will quickly reach a comfort level you didn't know was there. Again IMHO, I think it is easier and faster to progress from a struggling 500m swim to a doable 3000m-4000m swim than it is to go from say a 5hr marathon to 3hr marathon. Since you are an experienced cyclist and runner, you will see faster gains in your swim than you will in your bike or run. For example, in one summer you could probably go from 500m to 1500m (swim a mile) much easier than going from 4hr 100k bike to 3hr 100k bike.
So there's really no need to - as you wrote - go crazy on the swim. For example, there is a TriFuel article linked from the homepage that really does a good job giving you the picture for long-course events. The article states: "If you are training for 1/2 Ironman or Ironman the swim is a little less important (once you know you can cover the distance comfortably!) so the ratios are more like Swim 10%, Bike 55%, Run 35%. And that is borne out in IM finishing times too: Most people's swim time is about 10% of their finish time. (The ratios are time, not mileage, obviously.) So if you take a 10-hour week, you are looking at 1hr swim, 5:30 bike, 3:50 run.
From what you wrote, it sounds like you could probably do the bike already. I like your plan of getting very familiar and comfortable with long bikes and runs. During the next year or two the swim will come along naturally as you progress. So, where did I get all my whacky opinions? IM in '04, 06, and #3 in two weeks.
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brittda posted 21 weeks ago.
Just do it! Pick a race, pick a trainig plan and go with it. You will of course need to work on the swim. I had only done 2 sprints (on a mountain bike) before signing up. Had done a marathon and swam masters so I was pretty sure I could do it. Hubby had never even done a tri when he signed up for IMC with me and did it in 07. If I can do it, ANYONE can do an IM if they put the time into the training (barring any physical constraings , I am assuming you don't have any). Seriously. It is really about dedicating yourself to the time it takes.
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jonovision_man posted 21 weeks ago.
TriSooner wrote:
And I think your 2011 goal could be cut to 2010: Sprint and oly's in '08; Halfs in 2009; full in 2010.
That's a lot for all your advice.
This year I'm really pushing it to do the swim portion of the Sprint Tri, it's going to be tough. If everything clicks over the winter, then maybe I'm lucky and can get a half iron in 2009... I'll play it by ear! But I would rather take an extra year and be really comfortable that I can do the distance than push it too soon.
Again, thanks for all the advice, your post was very reassuring. :)
jono
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323 days
axlsdaddy posted 21 weeks ago.
I did my first series of triathlons in 2004. Last year I did my first half IM and this year I'm doing IM Florida.
Basically a full 5 seasons of races and training in order to get where I am.
2934
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1356 days
Anton posted 21 weeks ago.
Or...you could be like a few folks...when I think about it, six, that I've met at IM's and they are there racing and it's their FIRST TRIATHLON!!! I'm with Brittda here. Don't over think it. Do It... Sign up for the race of your choice, that you're comfortable with, in a time frame that suits you...Pick a training plan and stick with it. The truth is, it's the training that's the hard part...race day is easy.
"What would life be if we had no courage to attempt anything?" - Vincent Van Gogh
My Blog: http://agingsuperhero.blogspot.com
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Ironmom posted 21 weeks ago.
Well, you will not find this surprising since I'm a swim coach but.... find a good swim coach! I have coached people from barely making it to the other end of the pool through their first Ironman and I can tell you that you can drastically improve your swimming in a very short amount of time with a good coach, because unlike the other two disciplines, the swim is almost all technique. You already have good overall conditioning, and the swimming-specific muscles only take a few months to acclimate, so really all you have to do is to improve your swimming technique.
That being said, I think your plan of an IM in 2011 is a good one. I have definitely seen people do IMs as their first triathlon or in their first year or two of training, but I've also seen more than a few people blow themselves up with injuries attempting just that. I think ramping up slowly and enjoying the process of learning all the different race distances has a lot to be said for.
After having kids I took the 6-year plan to Ironman (I had been a triathlete before though), but then I had very young kids and limited training time, especially in the first three years when I had babies/toddlers . So mine looked like:
Year 1 - Sprint tris
Year 2 - Oly tris
Year 3 - Oly tris and half-marathon
Year 4- Half-Ironman
Year 5 - Half Ironman and marathon
Year 6 - Ironman
I don't think everyone needs to take this much time, but it was a very fun journey and I really enjoyed all of the different distances along the way. Each one had it's challenges, and I felt fully trained and really prepared for each of my key races. I ended each race, including the Ironman feeling very strong, and was injury-free through the process. The first time I trained for the Ironman (before kids), I ended up sidelined with injuries and illness, so this time I was determined to do it differently.
So bottom line: if you feel like working up to it in a couple of years, don't let people talk you out of it. Faster training schedules are fine too, but so is taking your time with the process. And get a good swim coach!
Blue Skies, -Robin-
http://ironmom.blogspot.com/
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jonovision_man posted 21 weeks ago.
Well Ironman definitely won't be my first triathlon, as I've already done a try-a-tri (does that count? ;))
I don't have a personal swim coach, but I have been taking tri-specific swimming lessons at the local pool. When they started I literally couldn't blow bubbles... or do more than one 25m length at a time! Now I can do 400m without stopping, so it's been good progress over the 6 months. I have a lot of technique things to work on, and I'll be signing up for an advanced course run by the same guy... if I find I'm not improving I'll spring for personal lessons.
Good to know I'm on the right track! :) 2011, here I come!
jono
1187
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TriSooner posted 21 weeks ago.
Anton wrote:
Or...you could be like a few folks...when I think about it, six, that I've met at IM's and they are there racing and it's their FIRST TRIATHLON!!!
Really? As in, the IM they are to start is the first swim/bike/run race they have ever done? And six of them? I'm gonna start using that line to psych people out.
Anton wrote:
The truth is, it's the training that's the hard part...race day is easy.
Don't give away all the secrets! :)
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Anton posted 21 weeks ago.
Oh yeah, at IMLP and Chessie Man...they're very first Tri! The first time they strung together S/B/R.
It floored me the first time... I imagine that while I've met six...there are many more. All of them except one guy had NO endurance experience...They get it before the days end though!
"What would life be if we had no courage to attempt anything?" - Vincent Van Gogh
My Blog: http://agingsuperhero.blogspot.com
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zagfan posted 21 weeks ago.
Sign up for the race and then set your training plan accordingly. I was in the same boat as you this year. In January I could barely make it to the other end of the pool without stopping. In June I finished Ironman 70.3 Boise and had no problem on the swim, I was slow, but I was completely comfortable swimming the 1.2 miles. I struggled the first few months with the swim but then eventually it just clicked. I got in the pool one day and just told myself I would finish 1.2 miles, and then I worked on bringing down the time. You will also be surprised at what a wetsuit can do for your confidence in the water. I'm now looking at taking some sessions with a coach to improve my technique.
This was also my first triathlon, no sprints or olympics before hand. I agree that some people take a different approach, gradually building up their distance. I looked at it this way, if I signed up for a sprint or olympic, then I would train to that distance, if I signed up for a 70.3, then I would train for a 70.3. I had also never biked over 35 miles at a time or run more than 5-6 miles at a time. I discovered the same secret Anton mentioned, the race was easy, its the training that is hard. A couple more 70.3's and I'm off to my first Ironman, hopefully late next year! So don't over-think the swimming, just get it in your head that you're going to do it and then go do it. Don't be afraid to set your goals high, you'll be amazed at where they take you.
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IronAdge posted 21 weeks ago.
Sign up and commit. I was a college athlete but before August '07 I had never ran over 6 miles, biked over 20 miles, and never swam over 500 yards non stop. Certainly NOT an endurance athlete.
I will be racing in my first triathlon - IM Wisconsin in September. Currently I have swam the full 4000 yards in just over an hour, tomorrow will be my first century but I have done several 80's at around 17.5-18mph, and I just ran non stop for 1 hour 40 min for a total of 13.1 miles. I have also done some 50/6 mile bricks comfortably. If you have the time and can make the commitment...or want something to MAKE you get out the door...sign up. You have nothing to lose, and everything to gain. I still remember how much my @ss hurt after my first 2 hour ride, how hard it was to go in the pool and only be able to swim 300 yards w/o stopping(I just added 200yds a day until I now got where I am), and how much my hips hurt on my first 10k run. But I look at where I am now and I'm thinking 'hey, i can knock this thing out in around 12 hours.' I didn't even know IM existed yet alone if I could finish it a year ago to this day. Just do it.
“I like a man who grins when he fights.”
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Leroy Bonkers posted 21 weeks ago.
You can be ready in a year. sign up, get swim lessons.
The difference lessons make will be incredible.
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jonovision_man posted 21 weeks ago.
I love the enthusiasm around here... :) Although discretion is the better part of valour!
Who knows, if the swimming clicks for me over the winter then maybe 2010 is do-able. I feel I can be ready for the bike and run whenever the swimming gets there, it's the weak link.
Thanks all,
jono
668
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307 days
jsk85 posted 21 weeks ago.
Yeah, go for 2010...that's when I plan on doing my first...none of my distances are up where yours are at this point (I'm only racing oly this year) w/ 2 marathons...then 2 70.3s and a marathon next year hopefully, and IM in 2010 (most likely Louisville so I can have the hometown support.
I do need to look into the swim lessons though...getting my bike and run distances up shouldn't be a problem, but the swim is the real limiter. Good luck and maybe we'll be doing our first together.
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miner06 posted 21 weeks ago.
I'm doing my first triathlong (oly) in July with plans on doing 2 halfs next year and doing CDA for my first ironman in 2010. I haven't done a century ride or any half-marathons yet. I did a swim class in college, but I hadn't done any swimming for about two years until I started training in april.
I know that I can complete CDA and have fun doing it. You are already more prepared than I am at this point, so I have confidence that you could do an ironman in 2010. Just have the confidence in yourself and you can do it.
"The only way to discover the limits of the possible is to go beyond them into the impossible."
- Arthur C. Clarke
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kylie posted 21 weeks ago.
You will be fine to do one whenever you decide is right for you. Sure, you could do one sooner.... but enjoy the journey, too. Make it work for you :)
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beads1985 posted 21 weeks ago.
The physical training is not so bad. The mental part is what gets you thru the tough parts.
Nothing to it, but to do it
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KevDaddy posted 21 weeks ago.
I have read lots of good ideas, and I certainly subscribe to the "commit to something and then find a way to get there" philosophy.
More than anything else, I would say consider setting goals for yourself that inspire you and will feel like an achievement on your track to IM. Lots of people set IM as their BHAG (Big, Hairy, Audacious Goal) and sometimes it seems anything that they do to prepare for doesn't give them any gratification because they haven't accomplished their BHAG yet.
I am planning on attempting an IM, hopefully next year- but the journey to where I am now (finished my 1st 70.3 in March, trying the Vineman 70.3 in a month, and will take on my first marathon in Nov) has been REALLY fun. While I am looking forward to taking on the 140.6 distance, I have found the improvements in time and distance as I continue to stretch myself to be really exciting. You are definitely well ahead of me in terms of the distances you can cover. Hopefully you can set targets for improving your bike and run while you bring your swimming along.
Sorry if this sounds like a lecture- certainly if you are fired up about IM in 09, 10, or 11 then, by all means Go For It. The tough thing about determining when you will be ready for the 2.4 mile swim is that you need to know well in advance of the race because many of them sell out so quickly. If you think you are progressing well, go ahead and sign up!
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jonovision_man posted 20 weeks ago.
OK follow-up question...
If you do an Ironman distance but not at an "official" Ironman event, can you still claim to be an Ironman? Will I be shunned by my peers and mocked by "real" Ironmen?
I'm looking into the Ironman events, and being a Formula 1 fan the Montreal "Esprit Triathlon" is really appealing... the bike consists of 41 laps around the F1 circuit! Might get a little tedious. :)
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JMA posted 20 weeks ago.
As far as I'm concerned, an Ironman is an Ironman. It's not the brand name of the race, it's the distance that defines you.
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kylie posted 20 weeks ago.
OMG that many bike loops would make me crazy! I'd have issues keeping count and then would be wondering about it until they told me where I was...
I don't care if people say they are Ironman after completing an Irondistance race. However, I don't understand when they get the MDot tatoo after it, since that is a business logo of a product they didn't use.
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TryScott posted 20 weeks ago.
The people I know that have done an Ironman race will not think less of someone that has done another brand of 140.6. I'm sure there's a few non-triathletes that might think there's a difference between the two.
629
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Ironmom posted 20 weeks ago.
What matters is the challenge you present to yourself, not what other people call it. 140.6 is an Ironman to me, regardless of corporate branding decisions made well after the original race was ever run.
Blue Skies, -Robin-
http://ironmom.blogspot.com/
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jonovision_man posted 20 weeks ago.
kylie wrote:
OMG that many bike loops would make me crazy! I'd have issues keeping count and then would be wondering about it until they told me where I was...
Apparently they have a mat that you cross on each loop, and it tells you how many you've completed and your time... so might not be as bad as it sounds. :) And it's the historic grand prix circuit, so I'll get a real kick out of it, as a fan. :)
Thanks for the opinions all!
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tsilcyc posted 20 weeks ago.
Ironmom wrote:
What matters is the challenge you present to yourself, not what other people call it. 140.6 is an Ironman to me, regardless of corporate branding decisions made well after the original race was ever run.
IMO, 140.6 is 140.6 but for some people, there's a difference between an iron distance race and an Ironman. And some dice it even further to distinguish an Ironman from "The Ironman"... referring to Kona.
If you're going to do more than one... try them all, but if you're going to do just one... pick the race that is going to satisfy your reason for doing it in the first place.
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Leroy Bonkers posted 20 weeks ago.
jonovision_man wrote:
Although discretion is the better part of valour!
I've always been more of a "better to burn out than fade away" type of guy myself ;-)
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tri-ac posted 20 weeks ago.
kylie wrote:
I don't understand when they get the MDot tatoo after it, since that is a business logo of a product they didn't use.
that doesn't bug me at all...i see that logo as being as generic as the name (in the sense that it represents the public image of the event)...hell, i had a timex ironman watch when i was 12, and i had no idea what the event even was.
i'll just go make a xerox now, use a qtip, maybe some vaseline, and enjoy a coke
Adam
Tri-ac
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jonovision_man posted 20 weeks ago.
tsilcyc wrote:
Ironmom wrote:What matters is the challenge you present to yourself, not what other people call it. 140.6 is an Ironman to me, regardless of corporate branding decisions made well after the original race was ever run.IMO, 140.6 is 140.6 but for some people, there's a difference between an iron distance race and an Ironman. And some dice it even further to distinguish an Ironman from "The Ironman"... referring to Kona.
If you're going to do more than one... try them all, but if you're going to do just one... pick the race that is going to satisfy your reason for doing it in the first place.
Good point... for me it's about challenging and motivating myself first, and second to accomplish something athletic I can be proud of.
I'll say I'm an Ironman no matter which event I finish, when I do it! :)
Jon
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1400 days
RV posted 20 weeks ago.
jonovision_man wrote:
I'll say I'm an Ironman no matter which event I finish, when I do it! :)
There has been many threads here on whether doing an Iron Distance is an Ironman.
To me, Ironman is a branded race - Doing one of their races is Ironman.
Doing an independent race covering 140.6 is no less of an accomplishment - but it is an Iron Distance race. When you cross the finishline at those races they do not call you an Ironman. Or shouldn't cuz they'd get sued ;)
If I went out and ran the Boston marathon course in training - Did I do the Boston marathon? I would say no.
Again completing any 140.6 race is a great accomplishment.
RV
It takes a long time to get good. - Scott Molina
Slow is smooth; smooth is fast. - Rich Strauss
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trigirltina2 posted 20 weeks ago.
jonovision_man wrote:
kylie wrote:OMG that many bike loops would make me crazy! I'd have issues keeping count and then would be wondering about it until they told me where I was...Apparently they have a mat that you cross on each loop, and it tells you how many you've completed and your time... so might not be as bad as it sounds. :) And it's the historic grand prix circuit, so I'll get a real kick out of it, as a fan. :)
Thanks for the opinions all!
Some looped courses you could keep track with rubber bands on your bike. you are the rocket not the scientist on race day.
372
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Leroy Bonkers posted 20 weeks ago.
tri-ac wrote:
i'll just go make a xerox now, use a qtip, maybe some vaseline, and enjoy a coke
Sounds like a lonley Friday night
he he he...
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ht001 posted 20 weeks ago.
I will add my $.02 on your plans and goals....
As others have said you have to be committed not just to the race and the idea of the race but to the training and what that means to your everyday life. That, and you have to "want it". It also helps if you actually like what you are doing. 6 and 7 hour rides on weekends away from friends and family, 1:30 sessions in the pool early in the morning, and long runs in miserable weather can be really tough to muster if you're not totally committed in your soul. You may have some days that are tougher than others to get through, that's bound to happen, and it is all part of the training process. It will be much harder to get through those days though if you find that you can't resist to opt to bail on those workouts.
We're obviously here to help you through those days, but do consider your goals and motivation for wanting to take on the 140.6 journey.
(BTW - it is a freaking awesome journey.)
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trigirltina2 posted 19 weeks ago.
ht001 wrote:
I will add my $.02 on your plans and goals....As others have said you have to be committed not just to the race and the idea of the race but to the training and what that means to your everyday life. That, and you have to "want it". It also helps if you actually like what you are doing. 6 and 7 hour rides on weekends away from friends and family, 1:30 sessions in the pool early in the morning, and long runs in miserable weather can be really tough to muster if you're not totally committed in your soul. You may have some days that are tougher than others to get through, that's bound to happen, and it is all part of the training process. It will be much harder to get through those days though if you find that you can't resist to opt to bail on those workouts.
We're obviously here to help you through those days, but do consider your goals and motivation for wanting to take on the 140.6 journey.
(BTW - it is a freaking awesome journey.)
Nicely put... where can I get the pic like you?
I'm sure everyone loves the Tri newbie who wants to do Ironman... ;)
But assuming I have what it takes to get there eventually, what is the best path?
Here's where I'm at:
Cycling: Have done century rides, routinely do 80-100k weekend rides
Running: Have done 1/2 marathons, working towards a fall or spring full
Swimming: Umm... not so much. Did a try-a-try with a 400m swim, and didn't do well...
I'm planning a Sprint Tri next (750m/33k/7k), which is cool, but I feel like I'm not doing the distances I'm capable of on the bike and run while I wait for my swimming to catch up.
Does it make more sense to focus on one discipline at a time? Keep doing century (and longer) rides, running marathons, and work on the swim like a crazy man until it gets caught up to the rest? Or stick to triathlons, upping the distance as the swim comes along?
Thanks in advance...
jono
Blog: http://www.marshmallowman2ironman.com/