"S" in freestyle catch
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gdtkona posted 9 weeks ago.
NO NO NO NO NO! Not S or Z or anything else. She swims faster primarily because she swims 20-40 k per week for many many weeks. The primary fatal flaw for most tri swimmers is early dropping of the recovery shoulder. The recovery arm is rushed forward and brings the shoulder with it , flattening the torso and reducing the amount of counter force available to the driving shoulder. I have interacted with national and Olympic swimmers and coaches. I competed against an Olympic gold medalist in a tri ( good thing he was a bit slow on the run!) The timing of the shoulders is critical, similar to golf. And one more thing, although EVERY tri swim coach says to not worry too much about the kick, EVERY fast swimmer I have met, 1:10 or less per 100 yrds, could kick about 1:25 per 100 yrds of faster! We need bigger feet!!
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fpugsley posted 9 weeks ago.
I have always done an 'S' in my catch since I was swimming club as a kid. I swim less than 4,000 yd/week and I am always top 10 on the swim.
I don't get what optimizing the catch has to do with speeding the recovery arm?
I agree on the need for a strong kick.
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cherelli posted 9 weeks ago.
Yep, I got brought up with the S catch and am definitely a stronger swimmer. My understanding is it requires less strength than the straight arm pull through which many sprint Olympians now use (which is actually an irrelevant point when talking about tri's!). Watch videos of Grant Hackett and he has the S stroke (hand traces an S from top of stroke, out to side under high elbow for catch. Elbow/shoulder is kept high while the hand traces back into/partly under the body for the second part of the pull through and leaves the water brushing against the thigh...)...
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MarkyV posted 9 weeks ago.
No S catch. This is a misconception still held over from Mr. Spitz and the 70's. Popov and his coach did away with this in the early 90's and much of their work is what we swim and teach today. Keep your humerus and elbow high and drop the forearm and palm. Catch deep with that and pull through. Search YOUTUBE for "grant hackett underwater" A be-uatiful catch he has.
As for kicking... you've got to use your legs for the next 2/3rds of the race. Learn to pull super efficient and just do a "tick kick" counter balance flick of the feet. The legs are very LARGE (read... lots of energy consumed here) for very little forward momentum. Deep catch!!!!!
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IronAdge posted 9 weeks ago.
No S catch, the most efficient way to catch is after your reach you turn your elbow out/high....it is hard to describe but think of it as not paddling with just your palm...but your whole forearm too, the S motion coming towards the body leads to shoulder problems.
“I like a man who grins when he fights.”
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IronAdge posted 9 weeks ago.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=UvGXAKdidO4&feature=related
notice after the reach the elbow turns out slightly and the pull is with the whole forearm, the elbow is bent nearly 90 degrees
“I like a man who grins when he fights.”
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tholosophy posted 9 weeks ago.
Just thought I would ecco some of the comments here. The key is to keep your elbow high,as you begin your pull out front and not drop it in towards your body as you get past your face, thats where you lose lots of water that you were holding on to. The age-old logic with the s-catch is a few things, one of which is that theoretically as you pull in an "S", your hand travels more distance, and while doing breaks the wake behind your hand / arm. I just pull, I don't even think about it. Just keep that elbow high and get a good roll going, you will naturally form this "S" shape with your hand.
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SueR posted 9 weeks ago.
Thanks everyone! i am off to the pool in a half hour and am NOT going to try the S. I do the high elbow already and am doing okay with it, but you always want to get quicker! Thanks again!
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David posted 9 weeks ago.
I'd recommand you'd give it a try...
Sorry, I'm one of those ex-swimmers.
Couple of things on the previous posts:
- S or no S got nothing to do with the kicking
- the "catch" is in the front - that is between the water entry & when the hand has dropped 20 cm (4 to 5 inches) but is still is the front
- The S occurs from when your arm is 45 deg forward (or up-ward if you will) until under your belly.
Now why do it?
The S allows you to keep constant pressure and therefore constant propulsion. Unlike the ground, water will move as you press on it. So the S will allow you to accelarate, and keep that constant feel = efficiency.
The second reason is that it puts you in position to make an efficiency effort. When you want to get out the pool, your hands are slighty inside your elbow: that's the best way to pull yourself out.
Finally, the combination of S + elbow bend will give the opportunity to tune your effort: "hold" a lot of water for a sprint, or less for a good tempo in an IM swim.
Best drill to work on it: closed wrist to focus on the pressure on the forearm.
Good luck.
d
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csaf31 posted 9 weeks ago.
All I know is that I add the "S" or figure eight or sculling, whatever you want to call it and have increased my in-pool training dramatically, dropping 10 sec/100 yds in four months (and also making a slight tweak to my arm angle when pulling through the water. In my first open water swim this past Sunday, I finished a 1/2 mile in around 13:30. That was good for 24th out of nearly 300 for swim times. My best swim ever.
Just make sure you get coached properly and give it time. It takes a few months to get it down.
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DSmith posted 9 weeks ago.
David wrote:
I'd recommand you'd give it a try...Sorry, I'm one of those ex-swimmers.
Couple of things on the previous posts:
- S or no S got nothing to do with the kicking
- the "catch" is in the front - that is between the water entry & when the hand has dropped 20 cm (4 to 5 inches) but is still is the front
- The S occurs from when your arm is 45 deg forward (or up-ward if you will) until under your belly.Now why do it?
The S allows you to keep constant pressure and therefore constant propulsion. Unlike the ground, water will move as you press on it. So the S will allow you to accelarate, and keep that constant feel = efficiency.
The second reason is that it puts you in position to make an efficiency effort. When you want to get out the pool, your hands are slighty inside your elbow: that's the best way to pull yourself out.
Finally, the combination of S + elbow bend will give the opportunity to tune your effort: "hold" a lot of water for a sprint, or less for a good tempo in an IM swim.Best drill to work on it: closed wrist to focus on the pressure on the forearm.
Good luck.
d
As another ex swimmer turned triathlete I second David's response. As for the best drill, try swimming with tennis balls in your hands.
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fpugsley posted 9 weeks ago.
David wrote:
Best drill to work on it: closed wrist to focus on the pressure on the forearm.
Just to clarify, he means closed FIST. I love that drill.
I have been doing the 'S' in my stroke for almost 20 years i would guess.... no shoulder problems.
Its not a giant 'S'... just a little whip from side to side. My shoulder doesnt really come into play in this technique
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SueR posted 8 weeks ago.
Okay I did 3000m using the S last nite. I cut about 45s of my 700 time, 1.5m off my 900 time...it's really natural and quite easy. I think I have time to adjust to it with three months til my half IM, getting in the open water in the next two months. I don't necesarily want to change something drastic this close, but it didn't feel that odd to be honest. Thanks for all the advice and video's and suggestions!
Sue
Hey gang,
I have a competitive swimmer in my class who is trying to help me with my stroke. She has told me that the "S" movement in my catch phase will allow me to be faster over longer distances with less effort. I am currently doing just a high elbow position straight back catch. Should I be listening to her? She seems pretty bright and is much faster than me...any help welcome!
Sue