You can do ... but can you coach?
I guess my response would be...
1) Depends on what you are charging. Since you are obviously not liscensed, you shouldn't be charging as high as a certified coach since you don't have a quality standard to live up to. Otherwise, I think it's okay as long as the people are fully aware of your qualifications (or lack thereof).
2) No, i do not. I think I would enjoy it though. I would first like to be in the triathlon community longer and accomplish more (only 3 yrs of tri under my belt), but down the road it is an option. I think I would look into certification though if it's worthwhile for a part time gig.
My blog: http://jsktri.blogspot.com
Have you considered just explaining where you are coming from and offer to provide some structure and advice for free? There would be nothing unethical about that and you may be able to tell a couple of things from this experience like whether you like it as well as if you are any good at it.
Goals in writing are dreams with deadlines – Brian Tracy
2008 Sprint Tri A race goals
S: 500m in 10:00 – FS Stroke only
B: 22mph avg over course
R: 5K <= 25:00
Place top 50% for my age group
You can definetely coach if you want to. As long as you don't portray yourself as trained. I would recomend pursuing certification though.
It all depends on your goals. Myself, I did a lot of mentoring before I took on a actual coaching role. I wanted to be sure of what I was doing before I charged for my services. Most people need a little guidance, and not a full time coach. Keeping in mind that being a coach is more than just giving advice. you will need to plan their year, schedule weekly/daily workouts etc... It can be fairly time consuming.
Unless I had plans to go full time and get certified, I would never consider charging even a modest percentage of what certified coaches charge. As of today, I wouldn't even feel comfortable charging ... period. I think the real answer is to start a club that caters to this particular kind of people: athletic but seeking to compete at a higher level. That way, you build a community of like-minded people, sharing advice with one another, and charge nothing more than an annual maintenance fee - if anything at all. We have very few local clubs and they typically cater to the extremes: elite athletes racing year-round or absolute couch potatoes looking to finish a 5k walk. Nothing for the in-between crowd.
I can't even do, so coaching is out of the question.
I don't think there's anything unethical about helping them out. As long as they know you're "technically" not qualified to coach them, then feel free to charge whatever they're willing to pay. If you're asking more than a licensed coach, then there is probably something wrong with that. But I say, if they are willing to pay you, and you're willing to help however you can, then it seem kosher to me.
"The melting point of wax means nothing to me": Thrice
All this certification talk gets me thinking: I'd hire an uncertified triathlete with skins on the wall vs. someone who paid for and sat through a clinic from a for-profit organization and conceivabley never even raced. People will pay for proven success, not some card you carry in your wallet. And regarding how much to charge, you charge whatever your athletes are willing to pay regardless of what someone else charges.
So 325 hours a year of training and a 13hr finish gets you into the 16th percentile at Ironman Germany? Dude, wait, what?
I started to go that route and even went as far as going to the usat coaching clinic a few years ago, but I never finished it because I realized that I just didn't have the time. Its just a 3 day clinic in colorado springs and then your have a take home exam that you send back afterwards (which I never did because of time consuming personal issues at the time). If you've been a student of the sport before the clinic, you probably won't learn all that much about training. For me, the most valuable part of the clinic was talking to the others there about how they've set up their coaching business and learning a little bit about the legal side of things. Most people there were already payed coaches long before becoming certified. The USAT coaching cert is more of a technicality than a true mark of knowledge of the sport. For me, I decided, that its something that I'll probably start in the future, but only after I finish school and if I still have no family to keep me busy.
I just go the mentoring route - I think that its more fun and less stressful than full on coaching. With casual mentoring, you. I write training plans for my college tri club. I con my friends and family into racing and help them as much as they want along the way. I don't have time to write daily workout plans on an individual basis for any one and no one I know would be committed enough to appreciate it anyways. A general outline of season structure is more helpful. I move around the country all the time for school and I wouldn't feel comfortable coaching someone I don't see in person from time to time without a pretty extensive interview.
I pretty much mentor anyone who wants to for free or I accept payment in cookies... If they really want to pay me, I won't turn it down, but nobody has so far. At the clinic, they recommended charging at least $200/mo for individual coaching because the consumer perceives lower quality service if you charge less. I also love to not do my homework by giving advice on trifuel.
I haven't taken the step to get certified, but I've thought about it. Reason being that over the last 3yrs I've conned a number of (i.e. 10 or 12) friends and family members into trying triathlons, or even just their first 5K or 10K. The follow-up action being that I cobbled together training plans for them from various sources, answered questions, provided encouragement, etc, etc...
Now, I've never done this for "strangers" or for payment, and I don't think I'd want to. These are friends/family who know I'm not officially a coach, but instead someone with a love of the sport who has spent lots of time reading and absorbing info from various sources. For me, certification would hopefully lead to a bit more education/knowledge that I could then pass on for free to those same family/friends. So, if in the context of offering advice from one athlete to another that became structured, I don't think it's unethical but is instead a great way to share your love and knowledge of the sport. But I wouldn't be printing up business cards and charging big $$ until you truly are licensed in some way.
"It's very hard in the beginning to understand that the whole idea is not to beat the other runners. Eventually you learn that the competition is against the little voice inside you that wants you to quit." ~George Sheehan
All this certification talk gets me thinking: I'd hire an uncertified triathlete with skins on the wall vs. someone who paid for and sat through a clinic from a for-profit organization and conceivabley never even raced. People will pay for proven success, not some card you carry in your wallet. And regarding how much to charge, you charge whatever your athletes are willing to pay regardless of what someone else charges.
At first glance, that sounds like a good idea. But, in many cases, those who can do can't coach, and those who can coach can't do. Just look at professional athletics. Usually the most successful coaches were just mediocre players, and many times when great players try to go coach (Isaiah Thomas), they fail miserably. IMO, this applies to any sport.
Just because you know how to do something yourself, it doesn't mean that you will be able to teach someone else to do it. They are 2 skills that, while perhaps closely related, are not synonymous.
I agree that certification doesn't necessarily make someone a good coach, but experience does. And I would be looking more for someone with years of experience in coaching, rather than someone who was a professional athlete their whole life and just started coaching because they retired or their body couldn't perform anymore.
"The melting point of wax means nothing to me": Thrice
All this certification talk gets me thinking: I'd hire an uncertified triathlete with skins on the wall vs. someone who paid for and sat through a clinic from a for-profit organization and conceivabley never even raced.
Spot on! I've met and chatted with several certified coaches in all 3 sports (since we don't have any representation of triathletes in my area). Most are well-educated on textbook stuff, but their credentials don't necessarily speak to my goals as an athlete. Honestly, the most valuable insight has come from one of my PTs who is a 13hr average IM finisher (and not at all certified for coaching). Would I seek him out if I were an AGer looking to qualify for Kona ... maybe not. However, he knows exactly what it takes (mentally and physically) to get to the finish line, at your optimal pace. He has done it, repeatedly.
I'm not interested in paying for a coach right now. But if I were, I would want someone who had a track record of coaching success working with people similar to me (complete with references). That would be more important than either a certification or a record of personal athletic success.
After thirty years as a teacher, at all levels of education, I can tell you, just because someone has "skins on the wall" doesn't mean they are a good teacher or coach. Experience is the best teacher but only if the student pays attention to the lesson. I ask advice of folks once in awhile, who I know have been down the road I want to go down. I ask the Kona slot winners AND the folks who finish in 16+. Every one has something of value to add...their experiences and lessons can be of great help.
How many time do we run into coaches who have little experience, but have the paper chops to make them sound good. A local running store is using an employee as the coach of their "Marathon Training Program" and they have done...one. On paper they sound great...a degree and certification...but their experience is sorely lacking. Not a good option for a coach.
I am constantly amused by people who coach who , "Got into tri's" two years ago and now coach because they "love it so much!" How much experience did you garner in those two years? I hope it's a lot when you start playing around with another's physical well being. I can think of a 11 people off the top of my head, who, following their "coaches" recommendation, are or were injured. I even know one coach who is constantly injured themselves. Red Flag.
As to giving advice...I do, but would never accept anything for it. I just share my experiences and tell what has or hasn't worked for me. All I know is, if I were looking for a coach, they would have knowledge, experience, a patient attitude and at least a few gray hairs.
"What would life be if we had no courage to attempt anything?" - Vincent Van Gogh
My Blog: http://anton.trifuel.net
I am an educator and a cross country coach and am starting my third season of triathlon. I was asked by a family friend to give a talk about training from 5k's to marathons to the running club at my YMCA. I talked and answered questions for 2 hours. It was a great experience that got me thinking about coaching a few years down the road. The problem I have with it is the charging of $. It felt right to volunteer my time and freely share my experiences with a group and I will be returning in the summer to run with them and have another Q and A session.
I feel qualified to coach runners but definitely not triathletes. One of the runners inquired about me coaching her in the next tri season. Completing an IM does not make one qualified to coach and I referred her elsewhere. I plan on getting involved coaching Team In Training Runners in a few years.
My two cents... I agree having skins on the wall or having a certification don't always make the best coaches. I know several people who aren't "certified" but are good coaches, and several that are certified who I wouldn't recommend. I think there is a balance but I'd side with experience with clients and the clients results over certification and personal experience. There are great coached in all sports who can't "do" put technically they know the ins and outs and can motivate and structure to get clients to succeed. So I'd rather find a coach with proven results for his/her clients than a sub 10 hour Ironman or a level 2 or 3 certification.
Back to the questions: 1) I think it's be fine to help out others and charge based on your experience coaching others and that track record. I think the club idea sounds best. 2) No desire to coach really, to help others ya, but not in a formal coach to client relationship.
Most sheep skins only proves that you can absorb information long enough to regurgitate it later. When I look for people for a job position (oh by the way it has nothing to do with triathlon), I am more interested in how they apply their knowledge and understanding of the science on projects they have worked on in the past. Translated to coaching, I would be looking for someone with a portfolio of successful athletes under their guidance and to be even more impressed, I would like to see metrics on their performance before and after.
Goals in writing are dreams with deadlines – Brian Tracy
2008 Sprint Tri A race goals
S: 500m in 10:00 – FS Stroke only
B: 22mph avg over course
R: 5K <= 25:00
Place top 50% for my age group
I think good teachers/mentors/coaches are people that enjoy doing, enjoy observing, learning from others, and applying that knowledge. They may or may not have the "right" certificates on their wall. For me, I enjoy coaching others, in many different fields. I have taught or coached everything from computer programming to swimming to triathlons to skydiving to a children's robotics team (I just took our kids' robotics team to the World Championships last weekend, one of 81 teams out of 11,000 worldwide to go - yeah!!!!)
What I often see from the paper coaches (been there, done a couple tris, got the coaching certificate) is that they apply principles that they've learned blindly across their athletes, as if what is written in the manual is a holy tablet or something. A truly great coach sees each athlete as a whole person, and works with that person on their own individual goals, needs, and limitations.
As far as coaching this woman goes, I'd say to go ahead and help her out. Don't be afraid to explain your limitations and offer your knowledge. Personally, I wouldn't charge for that kind of thing, but if it's something you enjoy and are good at you may find that you will eventually get offered paying work in the field of coaching and that the natural evolution of helping people to becoming a paid coach is a rewarding path to be on.
Blue Skies, -Robin-
http://ironmom.blogspot.com/
This is a great topic!
I have ran into some of these situations as well. I currently do not charge for my coaching. I started a tri club and have built it to about 35 members this year. I give my members advice and recommendations all the time. Even some members ask for specific workout structure, which I have the knowledge to help them out. Right now, most of my members are first time triathletes, so basic and simple structure and ideas can help them tremendously. If someone needed my help to get ready for an ironman, I would recommend someone else. I am not qualified in the longer distance events, so I am not going to b.s. someone. I will be honest and tell them where to get help.
I have hired a coach for my own training. Her name is Melissa Mantak. She is great! She has experience, both athletically and coaching. I think the certifications are a "technicality" as well. But it does show that you took the time to build your credentials. There is nothing better than experience. How many clients have you helped? How long have you been coaching? Those attributes are far more important than 3 certifications next to your name.
When it comes to charging people for your services, I would definitely look into the liability of the situation first. You must protect yourself. Secondly, I would get some clients who know that you are a "rookie" coach and wouldn't mind being one of your first athletes. Give them a great deal, maybe do it for free. Once you start building your resume, you can start pricing your services in a conservative manner. Don't over charge. But don't under charge. Coaching will take a lot of time and effort, so you need to let your clients know that they are paying for a high quality service. I would start working on a certification. Once you get "certified", you will be able to charge more.
Just to echo Ironmom, you must have enjoyment in helping others, energy to always motivate and inspire your clients, and you must be willing to change the structure of the workouts when needed. There is an art to coaching and a good coach can modify the program when needed. What works for someone, probably will not work for someone else.
Justin Levine
www.justintrain.com
"Be excited to live and enjoy every day to the fullest!"











During my run workout a few nights ago, I passed by the same woman 4 or 5 times along the trail. Sometimes she was running (at a fairly good pace), and other times she was shuffling along, obviously winded. As I started my cool-down, we crossed paths and began discussing everything from biomechanics to local races to her sudden desire to become a middle-of-the-pack 15k runner.
Impressed with (what she perceived to be) my comprehensive knowledge and above average performance, she asked me if I would consider coaching her and other people she works with. This has happened to me before so, as usual, I politely declined and shrugged it off. Then I thought about it from the other side...
My questions to the Trifuel community are (1) would such a training arrangement be ethical/legal considering that myself and most of us are not licensed professionals and (2) does anyone else do this type of thing on the side? I'm not looking to get rich or quit my job, but I enjoy sharing the things I've learned and helping other people hit their target goals.