I don't, I've tried for the life of me on working on doing those stupid things and I just couldn't get with the program. I just stroke into the wall (not literally) and push off the wall. Been working for me at least. I would think that whatever would feel best for you in the pool stick with that. Again, not a swimmer but thought I would toss out my opinion to you. =)

That is what a few of my friends who swam in HS told me to do. I lifegaurded up at our Rec. Center here in town so I was hanging with HS kids who still were swimming and I tried and tried and tried. I got what they said, I got what they did and the purpose...I can't get it. I found two things I stink at in the sports world-Basketball and Flip Turns. (lol)

Good for you though Olivestri on making it work for you though!

Open turns for me - I get dizzy just doing a somersault!

nah, waste of time to learn if your time is limited like anyone i know. unless you race in the pool? then i see it making sense. id spend my time on other drills and open water swimming.

I recently read an article on flip turns where the coach recommended learning how to do them. His reasons were that it makes for a smoother work out in that you don't have to stop and start at the wall every length of the pool. Another benefit is that you learn to do without that "extra" breath you get by sticking your head up out of the water to turn. I personally feel like this is a good thing. I do flip turns about half the time during my sets. Just depends on how lazy I am that day. Truth is, in an open water swim, I don't miss them!!

See, when I do my "turns" in the pool it is just up to the wall in a stroke and it's a a quick bouncy off the wall. I can't explain it, I'm not tired or out of breath from doing it so it makes me happy for the time being. =)

depth of pool probably depends on the quality of your turns. 3ft is probably close to minimum, but i've been in 4ft water, not had tight form, and ended up having to push off the bottom of the pool. kinda disruptive.

which brings me to the point of flip turns (aside from being faster) to allow the swimmer to maintain a rhythm in the pool work out. most wall turns inveitably break up the swim into lengths. and i'd say a goal of the pool swim workout is to feel like you've gone a certain distance, not a series of lenghts. this, of course, should help for any open water swim.

that said, my impression is that zcowgirl3 has found a way to rhythmically turn off the wall and does not sense a break in the swimming workout. if that is the case, then aside from speed, i'd say a wall turn that keeps the rhythm going is effective.

in other words, it is about maintaining the rhythm, not how you do it

I'm 6'2" and have done them in about 2.5 feet - about mid thigh - but this is with about 18 years of training and racing experience.

As for getting that snap to your legs, it comes partially from the hips, but mostly from your hands. When you aproach the wall, tuck your chin into your chest, start your legs going over your body, and then throw your hands forward above your head, pushing the water away from you. It really assists in the speed at which you turn.

You can prevent water from going up the nose by exhaling while your upside down. Shouldn't be more than about a half second once you have your turns down.

i'm 6'5 and my pool is 3'6.
i definitely had trouble with it when i first started, but if you keep the flip tight and crisp, it's fine. after a while you will do it without thinking...just like unclipping from the bike when stopping (and similarly, occasionally you'll goof one up)

I blogged this awhile back, it's long but it covers my point:

As a triathlete, we look at swimming as something we have to do and not something we want to do. Swimming is for swimmers, we are triathletes, and we're better than them. Well, except for when we have to share the pool with them. It's sort of like comparing a goldfish to a barracuda and we're not the barracuda. They are slender, aggressive, and FAST. And not only that, they do those damn flip turns. We'll rationalize the flip turns with a statement like "I don't need to do flip turns, I swim in open water!" I have personally held on to this belief for over 10 years.

Over the last few months, I have really been focusing on my swimming. I have been reading everything I can get my hands on in order to better understand how I can become more efficient, have a better stroke, and get faster. I’ve also been spending a lot of time at the pool and around “them”. And I stick out like a sore thumb. I swim to the end; I come to the surface and bob around like a goldfish, get positioned in the other direction, swim again, and repeat.

I’d been sticking to my philosophy until I had read an Internet debate on flip turns. You know the kind; it’s basically swimmers against triathletes debating the same tired argument. Except this time, someone made a few points that really struck home with me. The first point was that by not doing flip turns, you are essentially cheating. It’s true; when you’re swimming in open water, you do not stop and reposition. You just swim. But when you’re in the pool turning around at the end, you’re essentially getting a mini-break. You pop your head up, takes a few good sized breaths, turn around and start over. It’s cheating, I concede to this point.

The second point that was made has more to do with fitting in. If you’re not doing flip turns, you must be a triathlete. Because why would anyone swim 2.4 miles… ummm… I mean… 4224 yards (swimmers talk in yards) and not do flip turns? But if you’re doing flip turns, then you might be a swimmer and therefore receive a warmer reception.

Ok, the second point is a little silly but the first one really got me to thinking. I concluded that I needed to learn how to flip turn. And for me, that was easier said than done. When I attempted to flip turn, a couple of things happened. First, I became disoriented and nearly shot myself into the bottom of the pool. Second, water got into my nose and it burned the hell out of my nostrils. I immediately stopped and decided to wait for another time to learn this trick.

I stumbled across a forum discussion about flip turns. One of the posters described how their coach had taught them to flip turn. Basically, you go into the deep part of the pool away from the wall and attempt to complete a summersault underwater. While rotating your turn, exhale out of your nose. I did this a few times and was able to accomplish the turn without burning my nostrils. Now I needed to incorporate this new trick while swimming. I remembered reading something about initiating the turn one arms length away from the wall. When I got near the wall, I extended my arm, my fingers touched, I initiated the turn, I exhaled from my nose, I pushed off the wall and I successfully completed my turn. One of the things I have noticed is if I push off the wall really hard, I use up quite a bit of oxygen. This causes me to have to breathe more and interrupts my swimming. I still push off the wall but not like I’m trying to get to the other end in one shot. Over time through a little practice, I have perfected my flip turn and now I look like one of them. Well, except for the fact that I don’t wear one of those little Speedos. And I haven’t found any articles that have convinced me that I need to so….

I like to wear my baggy $10 Wal-Mart swim trunks just so I'm not mistaken for one of them. I'd rather be "pretty fast for a non-swimmer" then have someone wonder why someone that looks like a swimmer is so slow in the water.

As a general rule of thumb, I teach flip-turns to my swimmers when they can comfortably swim at about a 1:45 per 100 pace. Before that, you just lose momentum and breath on a flip turn and an open-wall turn (well-executed) is just as effective. Faster than 1:45, a flip-turn is generally more effective. I have people practice well away from the wall at first.

When I do pool tris, I often throw in open-wall turns - at a distance pace they're almost as fast as a flip turn and you do get that extra breath and get to see where the other swimmers in your lane are at, so less chance of collisions at the wall (esp. as a lot of triathletes are not used to swimming with 5 - 6 people in a lane like swimmers are).

I generally teach good, smooth open wall turns first. Most of the technique needed for a good flip turn is also used in a good open wall turn as well - coming in smoothly to the wall, positioning your feet sideways on the wall, pushing off sideways underwater and straightening yourself out, assuming a good gliding position. After a swimmer has mastered a smooth and efficient open wall turn, you just have to add the flipping part to get an effective flip turn. But if they don't have an effective open wall turn, then teaching a flip turn is not really very helpful at that point.

I also teach my swimmers to hum through their flip turns. It keeps water from going up your nose.

I was practicing them this morning and, although I'm still not good at them, when I was leaving the pool the lifeguard on duty came over and said "I see you're working on your flip turns..." and we got started on a whole conversation about them. We were watching the swimmers do theirs, and each person's method was different. One guy rolled with the flip, another did a kinda-roll but further from the wall, one guy was almost hitting his head on the wall before flipping, and another had a crazy slow flip with almost his whole legs out of the water.

The lifeguard can't do them well either and said mine looked good, so I'll take that as a compliment :-) Still loosing a lot of momentum when I do them, but for whatever reason I feel less "winded" doing them verses the open turns when I get the extra breath in. Guess I'll try to stick with them for now. (and that whole chin tuck to keep the water out works :-) ) I'll work on riding with no hands next as that'll be good for when I get the aerobars on.