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heart rate article

tri-ac's picture
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started by tri-ac on April 10, 2008

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/10/health/nutrition/10BEST.html

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TriSooner posted 21 weeks ago.

A couple of gems from that article:

"'There is no association between maximum heart rate and exercise performance,' said Hirofumi Tanaka, the director of the Cardiovascular Aging Research Laboratory and an exercise physiologist at the University of Texas in Austin."

"The classic formula for determining your maximum rate, 220 minus your age, is notoriously inaccurate, he said. And glancing at your heart-rate monitor all the time can hinder your training, he cautioned. “It ends up playing mind games with you,” Mr. Hanson said. “Let’s say you are out for a 10-mile run and you don’t feel tired. Then you look at your heart rate,” and it is so high you decide you must have overdone it. Suddenly, he said, you feel tired and slow down."

"And the story of Rebecca Soni, a swimmer at the University of Southern California, helps explain why. Ms. Soni, who has the second fastest time for an American woman in the 200-meter breast stroke, had an irregular heart beat. At times when she exercised her heart would beat up to an astonishing 400 times a minute."

I call BS on that last one.

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kkocan posted 21 weeks ago.

TriSooner wrote:

And glancing at your heart-rate monitor all the time can hinder your training, he cautioned. “It ends up playing mind games with you,” Mr. Hanson said. “Let’s say you are out for a 10-mile run and you don’t feel tired. Then you look at your heart rate,” and it is so high you decide you must have overdone it. Suddenly, he said, you feel tired and slow down."

For that exact reason I quit using my HR monitor after being a slave to it for the last year and a half.

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UFTriGator posted 21 weeks ago.

I barely use a HRM, too. I never use it for swimming or running and only sometimes on the bike.

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ChunkyB posted 21 weeks ago.

TriSooner wrote:
"And the story of Rebecca Soni, a swimmer at the University of Southern California, helps explain why. Ms. Soni, who has the second fastest time for an American woman in the 200-meter breast stroke, had an irregular heart beat. At times when she exercised her heart would beat up to an astonishing 400 times a minute."

I call BS on that last one.

Sounds like she had irregular contact to her heart rate strap. If you're getting 400 bpm, and you're swimming, would you really think that your heart is actually beating that fast. I guess they've never heard of Occam's Razor.

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TriSooner posted 21 weeks ago.

kkocan wrote:
For that exact reason I quit using my HR monitor after being a slave to it for the last year and a half.

Exactly. The stopwatch is about all I use on swim and runs. Track work with a stop watch is so pure: 400 meters around a track and stop watch never lie.

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UFTriGator posted 21 weeks ago.

^Unless you're making excuses on a windy day :)

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rlauredo posted 21 weeks ago.

I stopped using my HRM on runs because running on "feel" of level-of-effort works best for me. More reliable. (Besides, given that I live in Miami and run without a shirt 10 months out of the year, I was getting this silly bra-strap tan-line. Real goofy-looking on a guy.)
I do use the HRM on my bike but only going riding alone: I find it usefull to ignore speed and focus in heart-rate so I level-out my effort with headwind versus tailwind, upgrade versus downgrade, etc.

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tri-ac posted 21 weeks ago.

mostly i look at my hrm when i'm done
also on those days if i think i need to be preserving my body for later...

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RV posted 21 weeks ago.

I agree with the above -
Swim - No need
Run - Use pace
Bike mostly just watch cadence and feel until I can really see my work when I can finally get a powermeter

RV

It takes a long time to get good. - Scott Molina
Slow is smooth; smooth is fast. - Rich Strauss

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big 3 posted 20 weeks ago.

The HR monitor really helped me. I think this is because of my lack of fitness and lack of experience.
When I started out, I had no concept of perceived exertion. Looking back anything faster than a quick walk was a Zone 4 workout. Once I got the HR monitor and a book to teach me about zones I was able to feel better about working out at slower speeds. I was confident that even though it was slow, over time it was going to improve.
I don't use it while swimming.
I do use it on the bike trainer.
I can see how you can eventually know your body well enough not to need it any longer.

For me, it was a great investment.
Just my 2 cents.

PS: I read the NYTimes Health section quite often. I'm usually disappointed by the lack of facts. All too often it's just studies with speculation. Which is nice if you are having a casual conversation about a topic but I would prefer something more "useable".

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tri-ac posted 20 weeks ago.

that's how i came into it, too

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zcowgirl3 posted 20 weeks ago.

I've been a runner a majority of my life from distance early in HS to the 400 for years to the 400 H in college. I never used a HRM. I'm not up to date with what/how and all that with them and I don't know if I'll ever want to use one. Should I at some point? Possibly but that takes me onto learning more about them and taking that effort since all my life (only 24) have never used 'em.

RV- I agree with what you stated above on them.

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bgreinke posted 20 weeks ago.

I'm with Tri-Ac. I have a tendency to over do it on running workouts (espcially when I should be warming up/cooling down) so using the HRM gives me some additional feedback to process. It's all in how much weight you give the data. In the end, I think some combination of RPE, speed/pace, and HR makes the most sense. But hey, that's just my opinion and other than a PR, I'm not setting any records any time soon.

Braden

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RV posted 20 weeks ago.

The real knock on HR is that it is subjective. I trained by HR for a couple years. I still wear mine, but I don't reference it during a workout - I track it on my Garmin 305 and look at it afterwards. Just cuz I like to look at data no different than checking out what the grade was on a hill, or elevation changes.
Your HR can be influenced by so many things, stress, hydration, time of day, how you fuel up etc. It is just not the best tool to base your training zones on.

RV

It takes a long time to get good. - Scott Molina
Slow is smooth; smooth is fast. - Rich Strauss

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fastdog5 posted 20 weeks ago.

I'm relatively inexperienced with endurance training. Coming from a track/sprinting background, I don't have the RPE baseline for longer distances, so I found a HRM helped me dial back my training efforts, especially during base training when you're supposed to be putting in long, slow miles. Does anyone think this is valid? Generally speaking, I ignore it on the bike and never use it while swimming.

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RV posted 20 weeks ago.

fastdog5 wrote:
I'm relatively inexperienced with endurance training. Coming from a track/sprinting background, I don't have the RPE baseline for longer distances, so I found a HRM helped me dial back my training efforts, especially during base training when you're supposed to be putting in long, slow miles. Does anyone think this is valid? Generally speaking, I ignore it on the bike and never use it while swimming.

I think that you are better off running by pace than HR.
To establish your training zones you do a 10K TT. Put that time into the Jack Daniels' forumlas and it gives you your paces for: Long Run Pace(Z1), Marathon Pace(Z2), Half Marathon Pace(Z3), Threshold Pace(Z4) and Interval Pace(Z5). So when your plan calls for whatever training zone you run that specific pace and stay on that pace - even when it feels too easy. This approach just has you getting the work done.
Then every 4 weeks or so retest and adjust for new paces.

RV

It takes a long time to get good. - Scott Molina
Slow is smooth; smooth is fast. - Rich Strauss

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slammy posted 20 weeks ago.

I never look at my heart rate when I exercise. I use it sometimes when I'm swimming along with how fast I'm swimming. I also wish I could wear a HRM but it simply falls down my body in the turns, no matter how tight I make it.
I wear it both on the bike and the run, but I rarely look at my HR while I run or ride. When I'm coming back to my computer I put it up on the screen and I think it's fun to see how the HR reacts to speeding up or going up a steep hill.

Another thing that has nothing to do with this topic is, that I tried one night to sleep with the strap on, so I could see how my heart was under completely rest. It was pretty fun to see, that it went down to a stabile 40 bpm, but sometimes (probably when I dreamed something) it jumped up to 80+ for a short time and then fell down to 40 again. You guys should try, just for the fun of it :D

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cutiger95 posted 14 weeks ago.

Gotta say that I trained for a long time wtihout one. Also thinking the HRM stuff was complete bunk. So I bought one at the start of this year. Have been training or tracking my workouts with it and noticing that if I stay out of that 85+% range on all of my workouts that I am actually gaining speed.

So my wife got one and she has been notoriously slow when running. To the point that it actually hurts my knees to stay with her and my walking when she is running insults her. But that is another point, she is always running out of breath and stopping. So today I asked how her HRM runs had been working she said that she cut 3 mins off her 4 mile time and felt like she was running slower than before. For the first few runs she just ran and tracked information. She was pegging 190 bpm's or so on all of them, thinking that because she was slow she should be running at a faster pace. With the HRM she is targetting 165-175 and running faster.

So I guess if you are finely tuned to your body then you know your exertion level if you are a little less in tune the HRM is the way to go.

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tsilcyc posted 13 weeks ago.

I read this a while back and this thread has reminded me of it.

“The 90’s called: They want their training plans back” ...

http://thetriathlonbook.blogspot.com/2008/04/90s-called-they-want-their-training.html

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fastdog5 posted 13 weeks ago.

The same author's follow-up to this article lists the benefits:

(sorry, I couldn't get the complete link to work - I'm technically-challeneged)

http://thetriathlonbook.blogspot.com/2008/04/listen-to-your-heart-answer...

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zcowgirl3 posted 13 weeks ago.

I guess all in all with me it's too technical for me. (lol)

Sad, I know.

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ChunkyB posted 13 weeks ago.

Here's the link from above

"The melting point of wax means nothing to me": Thrice

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fastdog5 posted 13 weeks ago.

Thanks, man.

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tri-ac posted 13 weeks ago.

i still can't get past the fact that the blog posts are somewhat contradictory (ie "stop using your HRM" & "HRM's are useful training tools")...which is it?

I personally find the HRM useful, though I've weaned myself from clock-watching while I'm working out. So I may check it during active recovery for intervals, but not during intervals themselves. I think it screws with your mind a little to keep eyeballing the monitor (causing me self-doubt about my effort). I do check HR when I'm done and put it in my log.

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kylie posted 13 weeks ago.

I really like Paulo's posts. I don't think they are as contradictory as they might seem.

The first is saying to be aware of some HRM misconceptions: there is a common myth that HR is an accurate measure of intensity. However, since HR training started it has been learned that in reality HR is the work your HEART (not muscles, skeleton, etc) is doing -- it is influenced by temperature, hydration, and other external factors. He goes on to talk about why it is still common, and does say that there is still value in training with one -- just that a HRM is not the "trustworthy measure of intensity" that it is often presented as.

In the next entry he goes on to talk about how to successfully use a HRM in your training -- to learn to use different intensities, and to develop your sense of perceived exertion. A number of trends in HR together can indicate other issues. He does conclude, however, that even with the uses he doesn't encourage people to start using them.

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tri-ac posted 13 weeks ago.

maybe I'm reacting to the forcefulness of the initial blogpost. it seems such a minor point to get all worked up about. You've got to admit these are not exactly clear thesis statements...

from post 1:
"It all comes from the myth that listening to your body means listening to your heart (the anthropological ramifications of this myth are also interesting). From this central myth, comes the common misconception that heart rate is an accurate measure of exercise intensity."

from post 2:
"Heart rate is of great importance to teach athletes about the benefits of varying training intensities. Coupling training tasks to different heart rate zones encourages the athlete not to train at the same intensity all the time. It also serves as a guide to learn how to accurately determine perceived exertion. "

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kylie posted 13 weeks ago.

I don't think he is worked up about it... to me it read more like tired of seeing coaches doing the same old thing without thinking about what they are doing. He is a very scientific guy and great coach.

I can see how those are sorta confusing, but in the context they made sense to me. Main point of one article: HR is not the window into all things fitness. Article 2: HR does have value in learning relative intensities and efforts.

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