Tire/Wheel Question
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ChunkyB posted 6 weeks ago.
I'm assuming that if you don't know, then you have clinchers. You do need clincher tires for clincher rims and vice-versa. You can't mix and match.
The main difference is that clinchers have a tire with a tube inside. The inside of the rim wall has a lip that holds the tires, and if you need to change them you just pull off one side of the tire and pull the tube out and change the tube or repair it or whatever. With tubulars, the tube and tire are just one piece (the tube is sewn up inside the tire), and you glue it on to the outside of the rim. People claim that tubulars are lighter or that they're more comfortable, but nothing can outweigh the fact that you have to carry an extra tire with you in case you get a flat, and you have to glue the thing on. If you ask me, clinchers are the way to go, no matter what.
Oh, some people don't realize this, but when you get some tire levers to get your tire off, they usually have a little hook on the back side of the lever. This is designed to hook on one of the spokes. This makes things a ton easier than just trying to hold it with your hand or whatever.
Also check out Sheldon's thoughts on the subject
http://sheldonbrown.com/tires.html
"The melting point of wax means nothing to me": Thrice
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Socket posted 6 weeks ago.
Ok, cool. So I'm assuming that (according to that link) with the rarity of tubulars, unless any tires and/or wheels I pick up explicitly say "tubular" it's safe to assume they're clinchers? Does the tube I use inside it matter (aside from size/thread)?
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TriSooner posted 6 weeks ago.
Socket wrote:
Do I need a clincher rim to run clinchers and similarly with tubulars? . . . . I figure I should have some clue and be somewhat prepared in case I flat at the race.
Yes, and yes. And changing clinchers is different than changing tubulars. I'll let other explain the very dramatic differences between clinchers and tubes. FYI - Tubulars are also referred to as "sew-ups" buy Euro snobs.
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TriSooner posted 6 weeks ago.
ChunkyB wrote:
Oh, some people don't realize this, but when you get some tire levers to get your tire off, they usually have a little hook on the back side of the lever. This is designed to hook on one of the spokes. This makes things a ton easier than just trying to hold it with your hand or whatever.
Uhm, I thought they were for wratcheting wayward spokes back into place for an on-the-fly true-ing. Maybe not.
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TriSooner posted 6 weeks ago.
Socket wrote:
Ok, cool. So I'm assuming that (according to that link) with the rarity of tubulars, unless any tires and/or wheels I pick up explicitly say "tubular" it's safe to assume they're clinchers? Does the tube I use inside it matter (aside from size/thread)?
As ChunkyB said, if you have tubulars you would know it. But since you haven't changed a tire yet (WTF?), I can't be 100% sure. Unless your wheel set is over $1,000, you probably don't have tubulars. (I say that because the tubulars I know of are uber-$$$.)
Tubes inside a clincher don't really matter too much as long as 1) they are for either 650 or 700 wheels, 2) they are close in diamater range (22-24mm) to your tire; 3) the valve stem length is long enough, and 4) they have a presta valve. Step 3 is the one that still gets me if I don't pay attention to what I am buying. You have to know your rim depth.
Ok, now that I've read these instructions, go to your LBS with your bike and ask what tubes you need. And buy at least half-a-dozen. They are about $5-$8 each.
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UFTriGator posted 6 weeks ago.
ChunkyB wrote:
People claim that tubulars are lighter or that they're more comfortable, but nothing can outweigh the fact that you have to carry an extra tire with you in case you get a flat
Nothing can outweigh it except that they're lighter and more comfortable. Besides, you can change a tubular during a race faster than you can change a clincher. And they're sooooo much nicer in hard corners.
______________________________________________
-Matt
Not fast enough.
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Socket posted 6 weeks ago.
TriSooner wrote:
As ChunkyB said, if you have tubulars you would know it. But since you haven't changed a tire yet (WTF?), I can't be 100% sure.
I haven't changed a tire yet because I've only had the bike since... August? and its been sitting in my basement for the winter. Maybe next weekend... stupid weather grumble grumble
TriSooner wrote:
Unless your wheel set is over $1,000, you probably don't have tubulars. (I say that because the tubulars I know of are uber-$$$.)
And that's the #1 reason for me to not own tubulars. The next best reason would be me+glue=bad. I need simple and cheap. The wheels I have are the stock ones on a Specialized Allez; the whole bike wasn't > $800 ;-)
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ChunkyB posted 6 weeks ago.
TriSooner wrote:
ChunkyB wrote:Oh, some people don't realize this, but when you get some tire levers to get your tire off, they usually have a little hook on the back side of the lever. This is designed to hook on one of the spokes. This makes things a ton easier than just trying to hold it with your hand or whatever.Uhm, I thought they were for wratcheting wayward spokes back into place for an on-the-fly true-ing. Maybe not.
I think we might be thinking of something different. I'm talking about levers like this:
I don't know how you could possibly ratchet anything with that because it's kind of just a loop. Maybe I just don't understand what you're saying.
BTW, I crack up every time I see your avatar. Who is that?
"The melting point of wax means nothing to me": Thrice
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xc800runner posted 6 weeks ago.
You can get new X-Lite tubulars for about 700 and they are fantastic wheels. I got mine for 350 new off ebay, so there's no certainty that any wheel set under 1k is certainly clinchers. I agree with TriGator on the lightness, smoothness and general awesomeness of "sew-ups" (just to spite the euro haters). And if you're spare it pre-stretched, you can change a tire in about a minute. Good luck doing that with a clincher. And anyone with tubulars for their race wheels is more likely going to step off the course if they puncture, as opposed to bother with a change, unless they're racing a half or longer. But the likelihood of puncturing (or most commonly pinch) is considerably lower than with clinchers.
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xc800runner posted 6 weeks ago.
ChunkyB wrote:
People claim that tubulars are lighter or that they're more comfortable, but nothing can outweigh the fact that you have to carry an extra tire with you in case you get a flat, and you have to glue the thing on. If you ask me, clinchers are the way to go, no matter what.
By the way, 1 Tufo Elite Jet = 160g.
Your standard tube weighs about 50-60 g.
But you save that 100g difference in the wheels/tires without the beads, so the added weight of carrying a spare is negligible.
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Sully800 posted 6 weeks ago.
I would highly recommend that you practice changing your tires before race day if you goal is to finish (I imagine that would be your goal since its your first race ever). In all likelihood you won't get a flat during the race, but it should give you some peace of mind that you can handle any situation that arises. Also, it will give you a better understanding of how your tires and tubes function, and I'm a big fan of understanding how things function.
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trimas posted 6 weeks ago.
I'm a tubular guy myself. I can change a tubular much faster and WITHOUT tire levers. Yeah, I may have to carry an extra tire, but no levers. I can't tell you how many people I've seen get pinch flats with clinchers. I also use Tufo tape instead of glue, which is awesome. If I get a flat, most of the time I can "reuse" the tape that was already on the rim and just throw another tuby on. And you can get higher PSI in tubulars, which is good for decreasing rolling resistance. Sealants are also available for tubular punctures, although I've never used them before. I think people hear the word "glue" + tublular and get scared away.
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ChunkyB posted 6 weeks ago.
No, I hear the words "you have to buy a whole new tire when you get a flat, and you better carry the tire with you, and the tire change can be a goopy prospect no matter what you use to mount the tire".
I have never gotten a pinch flat. It's pretty easy to just look on both sides of the tire before you pump up the tube to make sure the tube isn't stuck under it.
"The melting point of wax means nothing to me": Thrice
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theShiba posted 6 weeks ago.
Hey... so just throwing this out there.... Here's a link to an eBay tire store:
http://stores.ebay.com/NiceBikeTires
I get my tires and tubes there, and they are cheap but good quality. Actually, come to think of it, I haven't flatted one of their tubes yet. I only had one pinch out on me when I was careless after changing my rim tape. (Note: Don't try to change a clincher tube at 3am after fussing with your bike all night...)
"Every journey has a secret destination of which the traveler is unaware." —Martin Buber
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tri-ac posted 6 weeks ago.
ChunkyB wrote:
I have never gotten a pinch flat. It's pretty easy to just look on both sides of the tire before you pump up the tube to make sure the tube isn't stuck under it.
just to be clear, a pinch flat comes from hitting something, like a pothole edge, that compresses the tire/tube against the rim and causing it to flat
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ChunkyB posted 6 weeks ago.
I thought you could also get a pinch flat from the tire basically being stuck between the rim and the bead of the tire. At any rate , I'd much rather flat on my clinchers anyway, because then I can just replace the tube.
"The melting point of wax means nothing to me": Thrice
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trimas posted 6 weeks ago.
Most pinch flats happen before you "just look on both sides of the tire before you pump up the tube." Newbies putting the tire on will most likely pinch the tube due to prying the tire on with levers. And like I said before, you can use a sealant if you have a puncture- WITHOUT buying a new tire.
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PJT posted 6 weeks ago.
Sully800 wrote:
I would highly recommend that you practice changing your tires before race day if you goal is to finish (I imagine that would be your goal since its your first race ever).
+1 on learning how to change a tire. In a race, no big deal if you don't mind taking a DNF (I do, but to each his own). There will almost always be a car patrolling the course to give you a ride back. It's on those long training rides with nobody around that tire-changing becomes an essential skill.
Do this long enough, and you WILL get a flat. It can happen far from home, and with nobody around to help. Carry a spare tube, a pump or CO2 kit, some patches, tire levers, and, for when all else fails, a cell phone.
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PJT posted 6 weeks ago.
trimas wrote:
And you can get higher PSI in tubulars, which is good for decreasing rolling resistance.
This is not always true. On an indoor track, yes. On a chip-seal road, not so much.
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fastdog5 posted 6 weeks ago.
trimas wrote:
Most pinch flats happen before you "just look on both sides of the tire before you pump up the tube." Newbies putting the tire on will most likely pinch the tube due to prying the tire on with levers. And like I said before, you can use a sealant if you have a puncture- WITHOUT buying a new tire.
You shouldn't really need levers to mount a clincher as long as you aren't using a hard case tire. Also, I was told by my LBS that most of those sealants ruin your tire because in the act of sealing the hole it effectively glues the tube to the tire and the rim. Not sure if this is true, just throwing this out there.
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trimas posted 6 weeks ago.
I was talking about sealants for tubular tires, not clinchers. I'd never advise someone to use a sealant on a clincher. That's what patch kits are for- unless you're mountain biking in the desert where there are lots of cactus spines. And yes, you "shouldn't" need levers to put a clincher on, but I'd bet most people here don't have the hand strength to get that last 10% of tire over the rim.
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fastdog5 posted 6 weeks ago.
trimas wrote:
I was talking about sealants for tubular tires, not clinchers.
My bad.
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Donna posted 6 weeks ago.
I realize we're a bit off topic but since we're talking about sealants for tubulars, I thought I'd ask: Does anyone have experience with the sealants? They seem like they'd be a lot easier to carry around and use rather than changing a whole tire esp on a race. Have you ever used a sealant and then had it fail (i.e. you had to change the tire anyway?)
I'm just wondering if the next time I race on them, I should carry both....
Thanks!
Set goals...... but be here now. Enjoy the ride to the finish line.
Possibly a dumb question, but the recent tire threads had me thinking: what the heck kind of tires do I have on my bike and what if I want a different kind? Do I need a clincher rim to run clinchers and similarly with tubulars? I never see wheels for sale with a tubular vs clincher description, but is there a difference?
I'm 4 weeks out from my first race and I've never even changed a tire so I figure I should have some clue and be somewhat prepared in case I flat at the race.