First Marathon - need long run advice
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RV posted 21 weeks ago.
I plugged your HM time (1:41:00) into the Jack Daniels Training Tables and it says that your MP would be 8:02 (3:30:35). Normally the Marathon Pace is on average 20 sec slower than your HMP.
RV
It takes a long time to get good. - Scott Molina
Slow is smooth; smooth is fast. - Rich Strauss
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kkocan posted 21 weeks ago.
I'm not sure you want to get your marathon pace from your long run pace because if you do your long run at your marathon pace/effort you will take a few weeks to recover. Unless you are going out and doing your long run then will use the tables that RV mentions to work backwards to what your marathon pace should be. Does that make sense?
In training for my spring marathon, in three days from now, all of my long runs were at a relatively easy effort. I avg'd upper zone-1 hr and let it creep into lower/middle zone 2 (using the same hr test you mentioned.) For me the long run (up to 22 miles) was just getting my legs/body used to running for 2.5 or more hours continuously. I didn't really worry about pace too much, just tried to keep the effort level/hr steady.
For you, if you've already run 19 miles and it felt easy you can up the effort a little, but you don't want to go so hard on your 20 mile runs that you are shot for the next week or more. I recovered a day or two at most after each of my 20 milers and was able to get back into training.
As for my marathon this weekend, I will go by a combination of pace/HR. I know my HR will be high right off the bat due to excitement and adrenalin, so I will go with my goal pace until I settle in for the first few miles. Then I will hope to hold upper zone 2 until the halfway point and then pick it up a little and hopefully hold that to the end.
Good luck.
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Desoto TTT
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gfd posted 20 weeks ago.
I've never used a HRM for marathon training. Not that you shouldn't. What has been successful for me, as I near the end of my training, is to run my last two 20 milers with an easy 5 to start followed by a slight increase in pace for the next 10 and finally by finishing the final five at marathon pace or slighlty faster. It gives me a realistic idea of how my body is responding to running while fatigued. It can also help to remind you to keep the early miles at or below your practiced pace when you experienc how hard it is to keep pace from mile 15 to 20. It is even harder to keep pace from mile 20 to 26.2. As said above, it is really easy to go out too fast and then pay for it later.
Or...you could ditch all this advice, your watch, and your HRM and just go out and soak up every minute of your first marathon with no care at all to what time or place you finish in. Enjoy the once in a lifetime experience of a 1st marathon and celebrate your ability and fitness, especially when you cross the line. Worry about all that other stuff on your 2nd or 3rd marathon.
Good luck with finishing up your program.
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Joe_H posted 20 weeks ago.
I travel the fine line between conservative and chicken. the last 10k of a marathon is a b!tch take it "easy" the first 20 miles and save something in the tank for the last 10k i know too many folks (myself included) who get excited and go out too fast the first half and really pay for it. play it safe
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krazyfranco posted 20 weeks ago.
I just completed my first marathon. I did most of my long training runs at 9:00/mile or so, and ran 8:00 to 8:30 miles in the race. I wouldn't worry too much about the speed of your training runs.
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TryScott posted 20 weeks ago.
That's a really good point about being too sore to train from a hard 20 mile run. I definately should of thought of that.
Nice idea about soaking up the experience and forgetting the stopwatch and HRM. I did that for my first triathlon, and it made it a lot of fun.
I had to read the first part of you post a few times kkocan, but yes, it does make sense.
If I'm feeling great this weekend, maybe I'll try to run the last 5 miles at 8:30 or so just to see how my body feels. Most likely I'll just be happy to finish the run and still be able to walk the next day.
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Anton posted 20 weeks ago.
I'm so with Garen (gfd) on this...pitch the HRM especially and just run your Mary. Have fun, relax, enjoy it and learn from the experience. Later on you can go out and spank one.
A rule of thumb for long runs has nothing to do with HRM. Run your long runs 1 to 2 minutes slower than your marathon pace. Yes, it will drive you mad at first. Save that madness for your marathon paced runs which are not as long. The goals of the long run are to get your body accustomed to the pounding, to teach you what it feels like but most importantly, teaches your body to burn fat for fuel instead of glycogen. If you do your long runs at marathon pace, you'll trash yourself and have a horrible race day, if you even get there.
"What would life be if we had no courage to attempt anything?" - Vincent Van Gogh
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TryScott posted 20 weeks ago.
It will be hard to hold back during the race since my brother is doing it with me. He's 19 and I'm 30. Needless to say, I haven't beat him in any of our races in the last 2 years (except the triathlon), and he rubs it in. It will be the first marathon for both of us. Last year we did our first half mary together. At mile 10 I picked up the pace. As we passed mile 11 he said he was hurting and he was going to run the last 2 miles as a cooldown. Needless to say, he couldn't let himself drop back very far. As soon as the finish line was visable, he sprinted as hard as he could. I'm too old to sprint, and I didn't want to look smoked for my finish line photo.
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Joe_H posted 20 weeks ago.
well i think the marathon is a race well suited for wisdom and treachery instead of brute strength. let him take out too hard and then bring the pain the last 10k :)
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rebekahliz posted 20 weeks ago.
I obsess about pace during tempo runs, hill repeats, and (of course) speed work on the track, but I tend to be very protective of my long runs as an opportunity to remember how much fun it is to just run. I always time Sunday runs but I don't allow myself to look at my watch until I'm about 3-5 miles from home. If there's any gas left in the tank, I take it up a notch then. So I guess the implicit strategy is to learn to listen to one's body to determine an appropriate long distance pace. All the speed work I do throughout the week pays off come race day, and I've also developed the physical skills to run far at the best pace for my body and the mental skills to have a good time doing it.
Di mana ada kemauan, di situ ada jalan (Where there is desire, there is a road). – Indonesian proverb
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reidthecat posted 20 weeks ago.
I cannot speak for everybody, but You will be giving the advice soon, as a 1:41 first time half marathon is pretty darn good!
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TryScott posted 20 weeks ago.
Thanks for the compliment reid. I was surprised, and proud of my half marathon time last year.
My long run for this weekend is done, and it's safe to say I should of listened a lot closer to everyone. I didn't try to get my pace for the marathon, but I didn't try to keep it slow either. The last 8 miles or so were painful. First 2 miles were at 7:50/mi pace. It didn't feel that fast, but it was dumb. I tried to tap the lap button every 2 miles, and my pace slowed between 20 and 40 sec/mi every lap until it got to 9:40.
On another note, I should bring calories of some sort for 3 hour runs. On my 19 mile run a few weeks ago I had water, sports drink, cliff bar, and a gel pack. Today I just went off water.
Thanks for all the good advice. I promise to use it better for my next long run.
I'm training for my first marathon. This weekend I'm running 20+ miles, then again 3 weeks later, and my race is in 7 weeks. A goal for these 2 long runs is to get a better idea of what my pace will be.
3 weeks ago I ran 19 miles at 150 ave bpm and 9:04min/mile. It felt very easy. I should of tapped the lap button on my Garmin every lap to see if I was slowing down, but I didn't. From the chart of my speed vs distance, all 4 laps look the same. In November I ran my first half marathon at in 1:41:00 (7:42 pace).
For this weekend, do you think a good goal would be 8:30 pace? Should I toss out the stopwatch and just keep an eye on my heart rate? If HR is the way to go, what part of what zone have you guys run marathons in?
Based on the test where you get ave HR of the last 20 min of a 30 min run, here is what my zones are. The test was last fall, so maybe I'm due for another.
Methodology: Joe Friel: Based on Lactate Threshold Heart Rate (LTHR)
Zone: Percentage Lower HRZ Upper HRZ Accomplishment
1 65% - 81% 113.1 to 140.94 Recovery
2 82% - 88% 142.68 to 153.12 Aerobic
3 89% - 93% 154.86 to 161.82 Tempo
4 94% - 100% 163.56 to 174 SubThreshold
5A 101% - 102% 175.74 to 177.48 SuperThreshold
5B 103% - 105% 179.22 to 182.7 Aerobic Capacity
5C 106%+ 184.44 Anaerobic Capacity