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Pain on inside of knee

Chiflado's picture
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started by Chiflado on March 2, 2008

Hi all,
I've had trouble with a pain on the inside of my left knee when I try to run. What I mean by run as in go out running like distance... last week I played soccer and football (two hand touch and flag... not tackle) and it didn't bother me while I was playing, and jogging around passing a football today didn't bother me either. The last time I tried to go and just run was.. maybe a week and a half to two weeks ago or so. Before I don't think I had even ran half a mile when I started to feel pain. within seconds it was quite painful, so I quit running. The pain went away very quickly (we're talking... I don't know exactly... but I don't remember it bothering throughout the day or anything) after I quit running and just walked. Immediately afterwards, I went and worked out some (body weight stuff... don't remember if I did any leg stuff) and then tried running on a treadmill. when I got up to around 9. something mph (which was within a 3 or 4 min. I think.) the same pain came back. I got off pretty quick and again the pain went away quickly. Pretty much it doesn't bother me unless I run (and again it doesn't bother me in stop start kinda stuff like in traditional sports such as soccer, football etc.)

Here's my history of when I started having problems with that knee.

I did my first tri August 2007. Which got me more interested in fitness.

I began running, but then my left knee started bothering me (mid to late August). I thought I had done it playing Ultimate frisbee (not sure if any of you are familiar with that... sort of a cross between soccer and football) diving or something. I made the mistake of running a few miles even when my knee was still bothering me. (Note that at this time it bothered me throughout the day). It felt kind of clickish like, like something was not moving smoothly. I ceased running, to give it time to heal, and cycled and swam to keep in shape.

Sorry this is kind of a rambling disjointed post... but in short...

The pain is in the area of inside of the knee. It feels like it's in the bony part. When first started having trouble it felt like something was clicking in there and bothered me when walking as well as running. Now it bothers me when I just run. Comes on quickly, goes away quickly. And sometimes I will have intermitent pain when I'm not running, but usually goes away. And I need to get back to regular stretching but I didn't seem to have any problems when I stretched regularly (as in when I wasn't running... I hadn't ran for months, until a week and a half or two weeks ago.) Oh yes and I forgot to mention that we had an MRI done a while back and the radiologist didn't see much of anything wrong except for a little bit of fluid.

Againn sorry for my long disjointed post. If you need more clarification please let me know.

Any ideas?

Thanks so much!

phaedrus's picture
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phaedrus posted 39 weeks ago.

When was your MRI? Your symptoms sound like a medial meniscus tear (clicking, abrupt onset of symptoms, etc.) Have you ever been hit on the outside of your left knee playing a sport?

You should see your doctor (it sounds like you have though if you had an MRI already). Again, the timing of the MRI and the symptoms is important. An MRI is a very sensitive test for meniscus tears, but it's not 100% and not as good as a thorough history and physical by a specialist. Meniscus tears don't heal on their own, so you've got to see your doc if the problem is persisting.

cherelli's picture
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cherelli posted 39 weeks ago.

It doesn't sound like it's a muscular thing (otherwise I might have recommended seeing a physio or pedorthist/someone to analyse muscle biomechanics and gait, maybe look at getting orthotics etc). As with Phaedrus I think asking your doctor to see a specialist would be a good idea...

theShiba's picture
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theShiba posted 39 weeks ago.

I agree with Phaedrus. I have a very similar problem... clicking, intermittent pain... Hurts on the inside of the knee right above the Tibia. When you had your MRI, did you see an orthopedic surgeon as well? To me, it doesn't sound right that the MRI showed a bit of fluid, and that was considered normal. Extraneous synovial fluid is usually a sign that something has gone awry in your knee, so I wonder why they said nothing was wrong, or didn't order a second MRI if it was inconclusive.

I would say it's worth getting a second opinion/MRI if you can. Especially if it is to the point where you can't run without pain. Your Meniscus probably doesn't hurt as much during the stop/start activities you described because they are on softer ground, and there is less energy for your knee to absorb, but that's just a guess. It didn't bother me when I was playing soccer, but I think that may have been one of key contributors to the injury, so you may want to consider that. I am taking the season off, and focusing on building strength in the knee, and hopefully coming back next season.

My MRI showed that I DID have a Grade II signal in my medial meniscus. That basically means that there is some degeneration of the tissue in the middle of the meniscus, but nothing that would require surgery. Basically, my Ortho. explained it like this; the meniscus is a pad, and there is a part of the pad in the middle that is a bit damaged. Here's the thing... once they take out the damaged part, it will never grow back. So, it is best to avoid surgery if at all possible. But, it sounds to me like you are at a point where surgery could help relieve some of the pain that you are having.

Try to get things re-evaluated.... let us know how it goes. Best of luck.

Chiflado's picture
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Chiflado posted 39 weeks ago.

OK, thanks alot guys! A while back when it was still clicky, a friend who is a PT (although she has not practiced for a while) thought it sounded like a meniscus tear also. She pressed in the gap between the femur and the tibia, but I didn't feel any pain.

I was just reading some stuff about meniscal injuries, and about the only common symptom that I now experience is the pain on the inside of the knee. It doesn't click like it used to. However the pain is right around the ends of the femur and tibia. I may end up going to an orthopod for a second opinion.

theShiba: Does your orthopod think you will be able to run again?

PrinceofClydes's picture
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PrinceofClydes posted 39 weeks ago.

Run on the other side of the road from what you usually do.

PoC

"Pain doesn't last, chicks dig scars, glory is forever!"
- Shane Falco.

theShiba's picture
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theShiba posted 39 weeks ago.

Chiflado wrote:
OK, thanks alot guys! A while back when it was still clicky, a friend who is a PT (although she has not practiced for a while) thought it sounded like a meniscus tear also. She pressed in the gap between the femur and the tibia, but I didn't feel any pain.

I was just reading some stuff about meniscal injuries, and about the only common symptom that I now experience is the pain on the inside of the knee. It doesn't click like it used to. However the pain is right around the ends of the femur and tibia. I may end up going to an orthopod for a second opinion.

theShiba: Does your orthopod think you will be able to run again?

That's funny... well, the thing is, it doesn't really hurt when I run... it just hurts after I run, and when I am going about my day. He basically told me this, "I could tell you not to run, but I know you're not going to stop, so I'm not going to bother." That's the kind of Doctor I can relate to! He said to try as much as I can to strengthen my leg muscles... I have pretty balanced Quads, but he said to make sure I keep them strong, and to work on overall leg strength. He mentioned that Quad imbalance can lead to this type of problem.

I don't know what it will look like for your running in the future... Hopefully with some time-off, and some strength work you'll be back to running, but I can't really say. Best to ask around and find an orthopedist that specializes in sports medicine, or is familiar with sports and running so they can give you a fair outlook.

rebekahliz's picture
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rebekahliz posted 39 weeks ago.

theShiba wrote:
He basically told me this, "I could tell you not to run, but I know you're not going to stop, so I'm not going to bother." That's the kind of Doctor I can relate to!

That's still sounds so dismissive to me. But I'm really sensitive to all those anti-runner docs out there. The strong muscles we build from running also help protect our knees. I finally found a wonderful orthopedist who said to me, "I want you to be a 90-year old runner!"

I agree with everyone that you should find a doc, but it could just be patellofemoral pain syndrome. It's very common with both distance runners and sprinters. I have it. It's on the inside of my left knee as well. This is a repetitive use syndrome that's related to a problem with how your kneecap is tracking, resulting in cartilage wear on the medial side of the patella. It's very hard to localize the pain--it can feel like it's under the kneecap, surrounding it, or on the medial side. Usually onset is slower, since it's a wear issue, but mine was sudden, like yours. It commonly occurs when runners up their training regimen. Related to theShiba's point, one reason for the tracking issue is inner thigh weakness, so my doctor recommended more adductor strength training. Prior to this, I laid off the lower body strength training that involved hip and leg extensions for a few weeks, took a few days off from running and then did a few light weeks. I was lucky. The pain went away, and I hardly ever have symptoms now. Other treatments include 1500mg/day glucosamine, but that's only about 50% effective (and very expensive). Protein helps. Orthodics might as well. Last resort, a fenestrated knee sleeve or a j brace. No wraps or hinged braces!

Other symptoms of patellofemoral syndrome are pain going up and/or downstairs and pain when sitting with the knee bent for too long. I try to extend my leg and rest my foot on a chair if I'm at the computer for more than a couple of hours. This helps immensely because the knee is loose in the joint and the cartilage has time to repair/grow.

Best of luck!

Di mana ada kemauan, di situ ada jalan (Where there is desire, there is a road). – Indonesian proverb

theShiba's picture
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theShiba posted 39 weeks ago.

He didn't really say, "so I'm not going to bother"... it was more... "I could tell you not to run anymore... but I know that you want to keep doing it, so I can't stop you." It's not something that I can fix, and it's not something that he can fix either. Even if they were to surgically remove the damaged tissue, it would still be weaker. So... it's either I stop running and don't do any more damage, or I reduce the running, and try to cut-down on the damage, and add more of biking and swimming.

rebekahliz's picture
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rebekahliz posted 39 weeks ago.

I see what you mean. And sorry to hear about your injury. Both of my parents have had double knee replacements--Mom from being a ballet dancer for 26 years and Dad from, well, leading a very colorful life, I suppose. I wouldn't wish their fate on anyone. But it's amazing how understanding this new orthopedist was, even knowing my family history. So I guess that makes this post another vote for someone in or knowledgeable about sports medicine.

Di mana ada kemauan, di situ ada jalan (Where there is desire, there is a road). – Indonesian proverb

Chiflado's picture
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Chiflado posted 39 weeks ago.

All right, so it sounds like there could be some other possibilities. I'm HOPING AND PRAYING it's some kind of muscle inbalance or something like that and not a torn meniscus. It seems that if there was a tear the radiologist would have seen it, but who knows. I have an appointment with a chiropractor next Friday, hopefully he will be able to help. Also, my father being a physician may have another radiologist take a look at my MRI. Thank you all so much for your help! I hope I will be able to take up running again. It was my favorite thing to train out of the three. (The biking was my favorite during the race... it helps when there's actually people to pass, and you're not just riding solo. :P) I will keep you guys updated!

Chiflado's picture
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Chiflado posted 39 weeks ago.

EDIT: sorry messed up... you can delete this post.

theShiba's picture
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theShiba posted 39 weeks ago.

Chiflado wrote:
All right, so it sounds like there could be some other possibilities. I'm HOPING AND PRAYING it's some kind of muscle inbalance or something like that and not a torn meniscus. It seems that if there was a tear the radiologist would have seen it, but who knows. I have an appointment with a chiropractor next Friday, hopefully he will be able to help. Also, my father being a physician may have another radiologist take a look at my MRI. Thank you all so much for your help! I hope I will be able to take up running again. It was my favorite thing to train out of the three. (The biking was my favorite during the race... it helps when there's actually people to pass, and you're not just riding solo. :P) I will keep you guys updated!

You may want to see if you can get somebody else to do/process your MRI. I know that the place I went to had a specific MRI technician who went to school specifically to examine MRI's. I know that a regular radiologist doesn't necessarily know how to look at an MRI in detail...

Chiflado's picture
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Chiflado posted 37 weeks ago.

UPDATE:
Well I went to the chiropractor Friday. Basically just took a history and esamined me a bit and took some xrays. He thinks I may have a tilted pelvis, which may be the cause of my knee pain. My the left side of my lower back is tighter than the right side. Wednesday I go back and he'll go over the xrays and I'm not sure what else (maybe he'll do some adjusting?) He thinks I'll be able to get back to running. I hope and pray that he'll be able to fix me so I can!

jorlik's picture
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jorlik posted 36 weeks ago.

I highly suggest listening to PrinceofClydes and run on the other side of the road. I had this exact problem when I started my IM training. I saw a sports medicine doctor and that was his suggestion, along with a few stretches. The pain went away within a few weeks.

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kona_expat posted 36 weeks ago.

It could just be that your quads are unbalanced. Trigger points in the VMO (vastus medialis oblique) commonly refer pain to the precise area you describe. In fact, I'm having some of that pain myself lately. When I start feeling it, I work on my quads myself. The trigger point for your pain area is about 4" above the kneecap just off center. Try pressing around that area with your thumbs and see if you find any sensitive areas.

With all the activities you do, it wouldn't be surprising that you have built up trigger points in many parts of your quads--we all get them, but it's our weakest link that usually results in pain.

Chiflado's picture
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Chiflado posted 36 weeks ago.

I tried running today (got adjustd by the chiropractor yesterday) and ran around a mile, and had pain again. However even after I stopped I had pain when walking around.

kona_expat: After reading your post I started pushing around my knee and found a tender spot that is right above the knee cap and to the right. After pushing around on that it seemed to help. So let's suppose it is as you said an imbalance in the quads, what do you do to help get rid of that imbalance.

Oh yes and as to running on the other side of the road, I'm assuming you're thinking maybe ITBS? Today I ran I ran in the middle of the road (not a very busy road... not one car passed me) and still had pain. Also keep in mind that sense early September i haven't really gone out and run except for 3 or 4 weeks ago and today.

phaedrus's picture
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phaedrus posted 35 weeks ago.

Hey man. Go see your doctor, and see if he/she can refer you to a sports medicine orthopod.

It's likely that you have an over/underuse condition like patellofemoral pain syndrome, and you'll probably need some physical therapy to strengthen your muscles. (If it is an imbalance in your VMO muscles you need strengthening of those muscles. A foam roller will also help to roll them out--I do this for my ITB syndrome).

Forget about your chiropractor appointments (in my opionion). Why did they take more radiographs when you've already had an MRI? They are just giving you more radiation!

Again, when was your MRI and when did the pain start?

(Go see a sports medicine MD who can examine you!)

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beads1985 posted 25 weeks ago.

Jasonr - you don't seem to have much info and this is your first post. Are you a Spammer by chance?

Anyway I had ACL replacement back in 1997 and I had a Ortho pedic surgeon who specialized in knee specific sports injuries. You need to consult someone who wants you to get back into sport and realizes the health benefits of sports.

Nothing to it, but to do it